Boat trailering

[pescador]

I have a 2008 Road Runner trailer (tandem) with surge brakes to haul my 21 ft center console Hydra Sport which weights about 4000lbs all in (fuel, motor gear etc). The trailer weights approx 1500 lbs so I've got about 5500 lbs being dragged behind my Denali which is rated to tow 7700 lbs. The Denali weights 5500 lbs so the overall compensating balance is reasonable. The trailer is as new and the brakes work well as I've tested them both myself and had SG Power service them last year. The boat is well adjusted on the trailer. I've got it winched down tight both front and back and it tows like a dream. I hose down the trailer after every launch and its as new.
So, I made a couple of trips from Victoria to Gold River last year up the Island Hwy to fish Nootka Sound. I have to be honest, driving through Nanaimo with all the stop lights on the Hwy makes me a little nervous that I'll be able to deal with an immediate need to stop when your traveling at 80 KPH. Just curious how other people with 20 ft plus boats that tow them deal with this uncertainty? It's a fair bit of weight and I'd be curious if people feel surge brakes are the best option or going electric may be better? I've never had an emergency where I had to hammer on the brakes and try to stop on a dime and frankly I hope I never have to.

Matador

 

[Charlie]

You “should” be okay!

If you do have to “hammer” your brakes… As long as everything is in good shape, the brakes work and in good shape, with “even” wear; plus, none of the following is out of whack - it will mostly stop straight. Regardless of electric or surge brakes! You still have to consider the road condition?

There is a label on your driver’s side door frame “door tag”! This will list some things to keep in mind while towing - Some think they are all important others, seem to think they aren’t? I personally have been guilty of violating all, at one time or another. I really don’t think that was any of my smarter decisions and do recommend becoming familiar with these, if towing. If something does happen, they will “all” suddenly be looked at and they “very much” come into play during the accident investigation.

I am thinking you might be a lot closer (possibly exceeding) your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) and depending on what you carry maybe the Payload capacity? And, that will affect handling and stopping capabilities?

Simply put the GVWR is your vehicle, all in - including everything - gas, weight of driver and passengers, optional equipment, cargo, and including tongue weight while towing. You will have to determine the tongue weight, as they are all different. The recommended tongue weight is 10% to 15% of the total trailer weight (yes, you should load and weigh it). This means you should be no less that 550 and not exceed 825 pounds, based on the weight of boat and trailer given? Remember that number comes out of your Payload and is part of your GVW! Tongue weight will also affect your handling and stopping capabilities.

Maximum trailer ratings are calculated assuming standard equipped vehicle, driver, and required trailering equipment. The weight of all option equipment, passengers, and cargo will reduce the maximum trailer weight your vehicle can tow. This basically means you also have to worry about the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). This can be found on the same label inside the vehicle's door frame. This is probably the one that gets overlooked the most and “will” get you in trouble, it will also very much effect handling and braking capabilities!. Depending on your vehicle type and year your maximum GCWR can fall anywhere from 10,000 – 13,000 pounds.

Just for giggles take a look at the Front and Rear axle and Front and Rear spring capacities, along with your rated Payload, while reading the “door tag”. Under “normal” circumstances, even while towing you will not exceed your axle or spring ratings unless you carry something heavy, but people quite often do exceed Payload rating while towing!

Bored yet? Now, don’t forget about your tires and the inflation pressure, yes they are rated and can differ with towing. Tires are specified by the manufacturer. The rating is based on the weight and speed that the tire can handle. When you hook that trailer up, you need to check your tires to insure you are within their rating and pressure. You may need to adjust your pressure, to compensate for the additional weight?

So to recap, which is the reason “should” was used. We know: Boat about 4000lbs, trailer approx 1500 lbs, Denali rated tow 7700 lbs, Denali weight 5500 lbs. You are correct, you "should" be in very good shape as discribed! But, may I suggest you find and consider the things we don’t know: GVWR, GCWR, Payload, Tongue Weight, Tire Pressure and Rating? These things can and do get people hurt!

Hope I didn't bore you too much!

 

[NewMoon]

My boat weighs about 11,500 pounds on the triple-axle trailer with surge brakes. I tow it with a big long diesel pickup with manual transmission, more than 50,000 miles so far.

Even with all the brakes working well, it sure isn't going to stop very quickly, so I keep speed moderate, and avoid running close behind the vehicles ahead of me. In traffic I'm super vigilant, looking out for potential problems, like a light that may be about to change, or someone who might be pulling out in front of me. It takes a lot of concentration in traffic, and it is nervous-making at times - no way around that.

You might help yourself get a bit more comfortable by trying some fairly hard stops in a safe area, just to see how it handles.



Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)

 

[vetteman]

Remember too that depending where you are and the GVW of your trailer,surge brakes may or may not be legal.
Pescador,your trailer,at 5500# would be legal to tow on BC as long as the rated GVW is not over 6000#.Over 600# surge brakes are not legaql for use in BC.
New Moons trailer however,with a load of 11,500#,and regardless of the GVW of the trailer would not be legal to use in BC.
It cost my buddy $7500 for a new electric/hydraulic trailer a few years back when the RCMP stopped him in Parksville,weighed his unit and declared it to be illegal with the surge brakes that he had on it.
Dave

 

[Fishing Guide]

Cheers All,

I have a 2007 22' boat on a 2007 tandem EZ Loader trailer and live in Nanaimo. As the boat lives on the trailer in it's own garage on my property, I am constantly pulling it up and down Vancouver Island. All the components were new when purchased and the truck was also new (2007) so I have a fair amount of 'faith' in the combination will do what is requested. I have had several occasions when I have had to 'step on the brakes' when someone else has done something pretty stupid on the highway. The unit has responded exceptionally well.

However...I simply slow down to the traffic flow when going through any town. When I reach the end of the traffic congestion, I speed up according to what the unit will comfortably accomodate and to what I feel comfortable. I put more faith in my ability to regulate the combo unit than to other limits.

Fishing Guide
www.invictuscharters.com
BC Outdoors Pro Staff
www.fishingvancouverisland.org

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by vetteman

Remember too that depending where you are and the GVW of your trailer,surge brakes may or may not be legal.
Pescador,your trailer,at 5500# would be legal to tow on BC as long as the rated GVW is not over 6000#.Over 600# surge brakes are not legaql for use in BC.
New Moons trailer however,with a load of 11,500#,and regardless of the GVW of the trailer would not be legal to use in BC.
It cost my buddy $7500 for a new electric/hydraulic trailer a few years back when the RCMP stopped him in Parksville,weighed his unit and declared it to be illegal with the surge brakes that he had on it.
Dave

Good point! Pescador has be within BC laws! However, New Moon being from Utah, is fine in BC with surge brakes, as he has to abide by Utah laws!

Btw... My boat weighs in at 14,000 fully loaded, plus my tri-axle, it handles quite well. I agree with Fishing Guide's comments and seldom have issues. I do maintain and watch things closely! I too have had several occasions when I have had to 'step on the brakes' when someone has done stupid things and while not nerveous, I have had several things get my attention!

 

[adrianna3]

I tow a 3500lb Lifetimer on a 4100lb single axle trailer. I had some jackass pull out in front of me on the highway in Nanoose (dry summer conditions). I hammered the brakes and the trailer brakes locked up and the wheel skidded. Surprised the hell out of me, but it worked well. Once we cleaned out our shorts we were on out way.

 

[pescador]

Great. Lots to think about here. Charlie, I'll need to determine the GCWR. I'm guessing at max I'd be pulling 11,500 lbs with both car and boat fuel tanks full, 4 passengers and all my gear included. I weighted the SUV while connected to the boat last August. All 4 wheels on the scale with boat attached came in at 5918 lbs and the trailer axles weighted at the same time came in at 5170 lbs. These weights were with the tanks full, lots of gear, ice, four passengers and of course 8 large Springs on board. I still need to weight the tongue as that's one thing I've never done. Based on my calculations I may be a little light on the 10-15% requirement. I am very cautious with air pressure maintaining the trailer at 60 lbs as suggested on the tire and by manufacturers web site. I keep my Denali tire pressure at about 32 lbs, but, don't change it when I tow so maybe there's a need to review that. My SUV is an 07 and has very large brakes and again is well maintained. I think one thing I may do in 2010 which I haven't done in the past is make sure the boat fuel tank is as close to zero fuel as I can get it before I hit the highway. Full fuel load is close to 700 Lbs. I assume others follow this approach?

Matador

 

[profisher]

I tow my 22 Seasport on a 5800lb Shorland'r trailer with disc brakes. The tow vehicle is a Dodge 2500 diesel, with a stick. I travel up to Gold River and keep it wound up to 115K's on the cruise once past Nanaimo. Last year I never kicked it off cruise until I hit the Shell just before C.R. The disc brakes are the ticket, but with any brakes give yourself lots of room ahead and relax.

 

[Charlie]

4 passengers 8 large Springs = 5 people? and only 8 Springs? That might be considered "a Catastrophe"?

Your GCWR should be on your “door tag”? Based on what you just stated, you should be fine?

As far as tongue weight... you might want to check that? Lighter is not good, if you are less than 10% you could "jack knife"? I really like to be around 12%, but 10 - 15% is fine!

Just make sure you aren’t exceeding maximum “GVWR” and “Payload”?

 

[vetteman]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie

quote:Originally posted by vetteman

Remember too that depending where you are and the GVW of your trailer,surge brakes may or may not be legal.
Pescador,your trailer,at 5500# would be legal to tow on BC as long as the rated GVW is not over 6000#.Over 600# surge brakes are not legaql for use in BC.
New Moons trailer however,with a load of 11,500#,and regardless of the GVW of the trailer would not be legal to use in BC.
It cost my buddy $7500 for a new electric/hydraulic trailer a few years back when the RCMP stopped him in Parksville,weighed his unit and declared it to be illegal with the surge brakes that he had on it.
Dave

Good point! Pescador has be within BC laws! However, New Moon being from Utah, is fine in BC with surge brakes, as he has to abide by Utah laws!

Btw... My boat weighs in at 14,000 fully loaded, plus my tri-axle, it handles quite well. I agree with Fishing Guide's comments and seldom have issues. I do maintain and watch things closely! I too have had several occasions when I have had to 'step on the brakes' when someone has done stupid things and while not nerveous, I have had several things get my attention!

I don't think that you'll find that true Charlie.If you travel in BC you have to abide by BC laws.Not Utah laws.That's the way it's been in the 52 years that I've lived and driven here.
Dave

 

[NewMoon]

Seems to me it may be time to invest in electric over hydraulic braking. Any preferences as to brand/model? Any other tips on installation and setup?


Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)

 

[spring fever]

I side with Charlie on that one-it's the same with the boating regs-lic. we have to have a boaters card but foreigners don't. We can drive through California with a vehicle that doesn't comply with their emission regs but if you are a california resident you wouldn't get 10 miles with the same rig. My take on it only!

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by vetteman

Originally posted by Charlie
I don't think that you'll find that true Charlie.If you travel in BC you have to abide by BC laws.Not Utah laws.That's the way it's been in the 52 years that I've lived and driven here.
Dave

Nah, Dave… I don't think so? You might want to check a little closer on that? [:0]

Should I start with the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic, which both Canada and the U.S. were signature of, or just jump straight to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic agreed upon at the United Nations Economic and Social Council's Conference on Road Traffic (October 7, 1968 - November 8, 1968) and done in Vienna on 8 November 1968. That would be 41 years ago, of your 52 years! Sorry, just couldn't resist!

Of course now, I do admit I had a little advantage - I have been running around oversea and in "a lot" of different countries for the last 42 years. Also, if I am wrong it sure wouldn't be the first, nor last? But, I think, I might be right on this?

The vehicle and trailer are governed by the resident country. Unless, you are talking about importing? Then the vehicle or equipment imported must comply with the import country. (eg emissions, odometer, running lights)

So if I am drunk, speeding, etc, I may have a problem with BC laws and you could throw me in jail? However, if I am “traveling and visiting” with my "surge" brakes, please don't arrest me... I'd have to sic Obama on you! [:I]

You can read the entire Vienna Convention on Road Traffic here, http://www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf
Believe me it is a "very" dry read. Here’s a recap for you:

quote: One of the main benefits of the convention for motorists is the obligation on signatory countries to recognize the legality of vehicles from other signatory countries. However, the following requirements must be met when driving outside the country of registration:
• Cars must display their registration number at the front and rear, even if legislation in the jurisdiction of registration does not require a front vehicle registration plate on cars. Motorcycles need display their registration number only at the rear. Registration numbers must be displayed in Latin characters and Arabic numerals. In addition to this, the registration number may optionally be displayed in a different alphabet.
• A distinguishing sign of the country of registration must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. The physical requirements for this sign are defined in Annex 3 of the convention, which states that it must comprise black writing on a white oval background and that it must not form part of the vehicle's registration number. In practice, the requirement to display the white oval is mutually waived between some countries, for example between many European countries (where the white oval may be substituted by a blue strip on the vehicle registration plate) and between Canada, the United States and Mexico (where the state or province of registration is usually embossed or surface-printed on the vehicle registration plate).
• The vehicle must meet all technical requirements to be legal for road use in the country of registration. Any conflicting technical requirements (e.g. right-hand-drive or left-hand-drive) in the signatory country where the vehicle is being driven do not apply.
• The driver must carry the vehicle's registration certificate, and if the vehicle is not registered in the name of an occupant of the vehicle (for example a hire car), proof of the driver's right to be in possession of the vehicle.

 

[NewMoon]

The reciprocity in boating licenses is clearly documented on BC's web sites. Anyone able to point to similar documentation on a BC website relative to trailering? The BC rules I found make no mention of it.

Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)

 

[finaddict]

Some interesting info for bed time reading...

Brake Requirements
All trailers and towing dollies (car dollies) must have brakes on all wheels when their GVW (trailer/dolly and load) exceeds 1,400 kg (3,086 pounds). Every trailer with brakes must have a breakaway device hooked to the trailer brake system.
Surge brakes must be used when towing a vehicle that has a gross vehicle weight (GVW) of up to and including 2,800 kg (6,173 pounds).
From 2,800 kilograms and up the towed vehicle brakes must be able to be applied by the driver of the tow vehicle.
Motorhomes (only) may tow motor vehicles via a tow bar without brakes hooked up on the towed motor vehicle, when the towed motor vehicle's laden weight (weight of towed vehicle and its load) is:
less than 2,000 kg (4,409 pounds), and
less than 40% of the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the motorhome towing it.
Motor vehicles with a laden weight of 2,000 kg and over towed by a motorhome must have brakes and breakaway device hooked up.


Maximum widths for Recreational Vehicles
Maximum total overall width for recreational vehicles is 2.6 metres (8 feet 6 inches)
Mirrors (only) may exceed the width of the vehicle by 20 cm (8 inches) on each side.

Maximum lengths for Recreational Vehicles
Maximum total length for a motorhome is 14.0 metres (45.93 fee).
Maximum length for a towed recreational vehicle is 12.5 metres (41 feet).
Maximum overall length for a combination is 20.0 metres (65.6 feet)

For more information on the above, and other matters related to recreational vehicles, visit the BC Ministry of Transportation & Infrastructure website (Commercial Vehicle Safety and Enforcement) at www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse, or contact your nearest weighscale/inspection station, or call ICBC at 1-800-950-1498.

 

[Island Fish Lifter]

Im not even gonna post my towing apparatus.. Im sure Im a complete and utter moving violation. That said, my trailer brakes work great and move slow and steady. Hopefully next year I can afford a 1-ton dually, hopefully a diesel.

Fill the dam tub!

 

[vetteman]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie

quote:Originally posted by vetteman

Remember too that depending where you are and the GVW of your trailer,surge brakes may or may not be legal.
Pescador,your trailer,at 5500# would be legal to tow on BC as long as the rated GVW is not over 6000#.Over 600# surge brakes are not legaql for use in BC.
New Moons trailer however,with a load of 11,500#,and regardless of the GVW of the trailer would not be legal to use in BC.
It cost my buddy $7500 for a new electric/hydraulic trailer a few years back when the RCMP stopped him in Parksville,weighed his unit and declared it to be illegal with the surge brakes that he had on it.
Dave

Good point! Pescador has be within BC laws! However, New Moon being from Utah, is fine in BC with surge brakes, as he has to abide by Utah laws!

Btw... My boat weighs in at 14,000 fully loaded, plus my tri-axle, it handles quite well. I agree with Fishing Guide's comments and seldom have issues. I do maintain and watch things closely! I too have had several occasions when I have had to 'step on the brakes' when someone has done stupid things and while not nerveous, I have had several things get my attention!

Here we go beating a dead horse but I was sure that Charlie was wrong on this issue so I stopped in at the Vehicle Inspection Facility today on my way up to Port Alberni.These are the guys who enforce all the laws when it comes to both commercial and non commercial road regulations.They are also the guys who give out the fines.
I was told that what Charlie says is a common misconception and it's totally wrong.In BC you MUST abide by the laws of the province.The laws and road rules of a persons home province or state do not apply here.When I mentioned the Geneva Convention that Charlie referred to he just snickered and said to quote that when you're being written up and your boat and trailer is being loaded onto a flatdeck and sent back to the border(which he said said costs the owner a pile of money).That is now standard procedure when an owner can't legally tow his boat and trailer.
Sorry Chuck,but that's the way it is up here as of January 11,2010 at 8:25AM and according to the officer I spoke to,has been for a long time.
Dave

 

[Gunsmith]

So true, when in Rome do as the Romans. BC highways are owned by the province and are subject to BC regulations and how they are enforced.

 

[NewMoon]

Vetteman, thanks for checking with the authorities. Though I have towed between the US border and Prince Rupert many times without my trailer's setup being questioned, it sounds like I need to upgrade.

I spose it's time to invest in electric over hydraulic braking. Any preferences as to brand/model? Any other tips on installation and setup?


Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)