URGENT GLASS SPONGE REEFS CLOSURE to Prohibit Use of Downrigger Gear

cohochinook

cohochinook

Well-Known Member
Hello Everyone,

The following information was forwarded to me by a member of the Vancouver Sportfishing Guides Association that DFO is looking at banning the use of Downrigger Fishing in Glass Sponge Reefs in Howe Sound. This could also set a precedent for other areas. It's being done with very consultation could be implemented in April of this year.

You have until Feb 11 to send in written feedback to Terry.Charron@dfo-mpo.gc.ca and amy.mar@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

I felt it was very important to share with the FORUM. Please see below. I encourage everyone to write letters to the following people on it:



PLEASE SEE FURTHER INFORMATION BELOW ON THE PROPOSED CLOSURES:

I just spent 2 hour on a conference call talking about the attached document with DFO, Commercial Sector, Recreational Sector, Dive Sector, First Nations, and a variety of conservation groups like Suzuki Foundation.

Open it, read it, see the recommendations, and look at the maps. In particular look at the proposed areas, the ground truth areas (future proposed areas) and the recreational sector recommendations.

Here are my notes from the meeting:

  • DFO recommending to go ahead with the 8 new proposed Sponge Reef Closures.
  • DFO recommending a gear restriction measure to prohibit use of downrigger gear.
  • 150 m boundary around the sponge reefs is recommended.
  • They are asking the Fisheries Minister to approve these recommendations in a timely manner so it is in place by mid to late March in time for April 1st sport fishing regs.
  • Of course there is the SFAB process to keep in mind, Gerry brought that up. Seems to me like they have made up their mind already and prefaced it with comments that they realize it is going to affect commercial and recreational sectors but this is what DFO science is recommending in order to protect the sponge reefs.
  • 150 m buffer zone is thought to allow about a 20% sedimentation risk from traps set nearby in sediment.
  • New sediment drift research and modelling may change things in the future and the boundaries might become larger, some were in favour of this, some debate around the science and modelling.
  • In one study they said in Hecate the buffer zone should be as large as 2.4 km.
  • The assumptions are the major damage is done from traps dropped on sponge reefs, downrigger balls and cable contacting sponge reefs, and sedimentation from traps dropped nearby ending up on sponge reefs.
  • Unfortunately there were on 5 separate occasions from 5 separate speakers, somebody attesting to visible damage done to the sponge reefs from downrigger contact.
  • They claimed some of the reefs are as shallow as 22m and that is why downriggers are a considered a major threat as the reefs are well within the range of a downrigger angler.
  • DFO thought anglers may not even know if they are on bottom and contacting a sponge reef and would need down scan or side scan to figure out what was on the bottom, sponge reef vs rocks or mud.
  • When it is why my turn to speak on behalf of the VSFGA and LFV-SFAC I argued the following
    • There is a vibrant and active sport fishing community in Howe Sound both recreational and guiding.
    • These recommendations will have serious socio and economic impact on the above user groups.
    • That DFO needs to look at the cumulative affect of their actions. No fishing in RCA and now Sponge Reef Closures.
    • As anglers we need structure, which breaks up current, which attracts bait fish, which attracts salmon and allows a recreational opportunity and said opportunities are often well above bottom and therefore there can be a Sponge Reef Closure to protect the sponge reefs and a safe and viable sport fishery in the same place. I pointed out all the significant structure we don’t have access to; Halibut Bank, McCall Bank, the 7 RCA in HS, current Sponge Reef Closures in HS and now 8 more proposed Sponge Reef Closures in HS. The cumulative affect on sport fishing opportunity is very significant as is the local affect.
    • I argued for education and not closures. I brought up the fact the average angler has the ability to see exactly where he is using Navionics on his phone or chart plotter and RCA and Sponge Reef Closures are clearly marked. We do have the ability to set our traps easily and consistently outside these areas and we are in direct control of our fishing gear depth with sonar and downriggers, we are cognizant of where our gear is and we can, will, and do fish off the bottom.
    • I would argue they (DFO, Dive Community, Conservation Community) seem to think that we don’t necessarily know where we are fishing or where are gear is in the water column.
    • There was a person that argued we don’t know where we are and we troll into RCA all the time, I replied that I have personally put in hundreds of hours in HS each year and have never seen anyone in an RCA salmon fishing but have seen occasional blatant poaching by non-salmon fishing anglers on the drift and DFO has been called.
    • I asked that we work together on education and not closures, lets keep it open and educate, not close down and not enforce. I noted the sportfishing community has the most direct access to boaters in general and we can work with DFO to educate and it will have a far greater impact than closures with no enforcement (they simply don’t have the budget and man power to have meaningful enforcement).
  • One of the areas that needs to be ground truth is by “3rd Marker” off Bowen and if it is found to be a sponge reef and has a 150 m buffer, that spot would likely no longer be open to downrigger fishing.
  • I don't fish Defence as much as others, so can’t speak to that area, but you can see that East Defence Island area is one of the 8 proposed areas (does not need to be ground truthed). There was repeated note of downrigger damage in this area and I think it is sage to assume the closure of this area will affect local anglers.
  • The are no plans by DFO to increase enforcement or patrols to help enforce these 8 new proposed area closures if they do indeed go through.
  • It was noted by all that these proposed closures are only as strong as the education about them and it needed to be put out to the general public in a variety of languages.
  • All the conservation groups attending the call and Squamish Nation were in favour of the proposed closures/measures.
  • The commercial sector was looking for clarification of the economic impact and how that was assessed and they also had good questions about some of the science, in particular sedimentation drift.
  • There is no economic assessment for the recreational sector as far as I know, this should be assessed as well in my opinion. There are thousands of boating hours in Howe Sound attributed to salmon fishing and prawning by the recreational sector and this is a clearly an economic contributor to local communities.
  • DFO noted how much feedback and written feedback they received from the conservation community and diving community. I don’t think they had too many letters from recreational anglers.
If the precedent is set of no downrigger fishing in sponge reef closures in Howe Sound, it is the tip of the iceberg in terms of further closures in other areas along the coast as more of these reefs are discovered.


Action:

You have until Feb 11 to send in written feedback to Terry.Charron@dfo-mpo.gc.ca and amy.mar@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
 

Attachments

  • Howe Sound Sponge Reef Closures.pdf
    1.4 MB · Views: 110
Last edited:
cohochinook said:
Hello Everyone,

The following information was forwarded to me by a member of the Vancouver Sportfishing Guides Association that DFO is looking at banning the use of Downrigger Fishing in Glass Sponge Reefs in Howe Sound. This could also set a precedent for other areas. It's being done with very consultation could be implemented in April of this year.

You have until Feb 11 to send in written feedback to Terry.Charron@dfo-mpo.gc.ca and amy.mar@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

I felt it was very important to share with the FORUM. Please see below. I encourage everyone to write letters to the following people on it:



PLEASE SEE FURTHER INFORMATION BELOW ON THE PROPOSED CLOSURES:

I just spent 2 hour on a conference call talking about the attached document with DFO, Commercial Sector, Recreational Sector, Dive Sector, First Nations, and a variety of conservation groups like Suzuki Foundation.

Open it, read it, see the recommendations, and look at the maps. In particular look at the proposed areas, the ground truth areas (future proposed areas) and the recreational sector recommendations.

Here are my notes from the meeting:

  • DFO recommending to go ahead with the 8 new proposed Sponge Reef Closures.
  • DFO recommending a gear restriction measure to prohibit use of downrigger gear.
  • 150 m boundary around the sponge reefs is recommended.
  • They are asking the Fisheries Minister to approve these recommendations in a timely manner so it is in place by mid to late March in time for April 1st sport fishing regs.
  • Of course there is the SFAB process to keep in mind, Gerry brought that up. Seems to me like they have made up their mind already and prefaced it with comments that they realize it is going to affect commercial and recreational sectors but this is what DFO science is recommending in order to protect the sponge reefs.
  • 150 m buffer zone is thought to allow about a 20% sedimentation risk from traps set nearby in sediment.
  • New sediment drift research and modelling may change things in the future and the boundaries might become larger, some were in favour of this, some debate around the science and modelling.
  • In one study they said in Hecate the buffer zone should be as large as 2.4 km.
  • The assumptions are the major damage is done from traps dropped on sponge reefs, downrigger balls and cable contacting sponge reefs, and sedimentation from traps dropped nearby ending up on sponge reefs.
  • Unfortunately there were on 5 separate occasions from 5 separate speakers, somebody attesting to visible damage done to the sponge reefs from downrigger contact.
  • They claimed some of the reefs are as shallow as 22m and that is why downriggers are a considered a major threat as the reefs are well within the range of a downrigger angler.
  • DFO thought anglers may not even know if they are on bottom and contacting a sponge reef and would need down scan or side scan to figure out what was on the bottom, sponge reef vs rocks or mud.
  • When it is why my turn to speak on behalf of the VSFGA and LFV-SFAC I argued the following
    • There is a vibrant and active sport fishing community in Howe Sound both recreational and guiding.
    • These recommendations will have serious socio and economic impact on the above user groups.
    • That DFO needs to look at the cumulative affect of their actions. No fishing in RCA and now Sponge Reef Closures.
    • As anglers we need structure, which breaks up current, which attracts bait fish, which attracts salmon and allows a recreational opportunity and said opportunities are often well above bottom and therefore there can be a Sponge Reef Closure to protect the sponge reefs and a safe and viable sport fishery in the same place. I pointed out all the significant structure we don’t have access to; Halibut Bank, McCall Bank, the 7 RCA in HS, current Sponge Reef Closures in HS and now 8 more proposed Sponge Reef Closures in HS. The cumulative affect on sport fishing opportunity is very significant as is the local affect.
    • I argued for education and not closures. I brought up the fact the average angler has the ability to see exactly where he is using Navionics on his phone or chart plotter and RCA and Sponge Reef Closures are clearly marked. We do have the ability to set our traps easily and consistently outside these areas and we are in direct control of our fishing gear depth with sonar and downriggers, we are cognizant of where our gear is and we can, will, and do fish off the bottom.
    • I would argue they (DFO, Dive Community, Conservation Community) seem to think that we don’t necessarily know where we are fishing or where are gear is in the water column.
    • There was a person that argued we don’t know where we are and we troll into RCA all the time, I replied that I have personally put in hundreds of hours in HS each year and have never seen anyone in an RCA salmon fishing but have seen occasional blatant poaching by non-salmon fishing anglers on the drift and DFO has been called.
    • I asked that we work together on education and not closures, lets keep it open and educate, not close down and not enforce. I noted the sportfishing community has the most direct access to boaters in general and we can work with DFO to educate and it will have a far greater impact than closures with no enforcement (they simply don’t have the budget and man power to have meaningful enforcement).
  • One of the areas that needs to be ground truth is by “3rd Marker” off Bowen and if it is found to be a sponge reef and has a 150 m buffer, that spot would likely no longer be open to downrigger fishing.
  • I don't fish Defence as much as others, so can’t speak to that area, but you can see that East Defence Island area is one of the 8 proposed areas (does not need to be ground truthed). There was repeated note of downrigger damage in this area and I think it is sage to assume the closure of this area will affect local anglers.
  • The are no plans by DFO to increase enforcement or patrols to help enforce these 8 new proposed area closures if they do indeed go through.
  • It was noted by all that these proposed closures are only as strong as the education about them and it needed to be put out to the general public in a variety of languages.
  • All the conservation groups attending the call and Squamish Nation were in favour of the proposed closures/measures.
  • The commercial sector was looking for clarification of the economic impact and how that was assessed and they also had good questions about some of the science, in particular sedimentation drift.
  • There is no economic assessment for the recreational sector as far as I know, this should be assessed as well in my opinion. There are thousands of boating hours in Howe Sound attributed to salmon fishing and prawning by the recreational sector and this is a clearly an economic contributor to local communities.
  • DFO noted how much feedback and written feedback they received from the conservation community and diving community. I don’t think they had too many letters from recreational anglers.
If the precedent is set of no downrigger fishing in sponge reef closures in Howe Sound, it is the tip of the iceberg in terms of further closures in other areas along the coast as more of these reefs are discovered.


Action:

You have until Feb 11 to send in written feedback to Terry.Charron@dfo-mpo.gc.ca and amy.mar@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Click to expand...
Thanks for addressing this issue. I just want to point out the misspelling of the fisheries minister’s name. It is Jonathan Wilkinson.
Thanks again!
 
The SFAB has put together a motion to try to address this issue. When you pen you letter about it you can use the motion in your letter as an idea.




upload_2019-1-21_8-46-55.png



upload_2019-1-21_8-47-51.png
 
wildmanyeah said:
The SFAB has put together a motion to try to address this issue. When you pen you letter about it you can use the motion in your letter as an idea.




View attachment 42721



View attachment 42722
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting Wildmanyeah! Laurie and Gerry have been extremely pro-active on this along with other SFAB participants.

What we need is for members of this Forum to engage on this with the Fisheries Minister directly and their MP's. People I know that are involved feel, unless significant backlash is done by sportfishers, this will be rubber stamped!:mad:

I strongly encourage everyone on this Forum to call or email the following to express your concerns:
 
Stizzla said:
Thanks for addressing this issue. I just want to point out the misspelling of the fisheries minister’s name. It is Jonathan Wilkinson.
Thanks again!
Click to expand...
I don't see the wrong spelling, but that's not the important point on the post. Please make sure you make the effort to write, email or phone on the issue, Stizzla!
 
Last edited:
cohochinook said:
Thanks for the correction. Please make sure you make the effort to write, email or phone on the issue, Stizzla.
Click to expand...
Gladly. Could you please get a sample letter or at least a list of points you would like me to hit? I don’t have enough knowledge on the subject.
 
Stizzla said:
Gladly. Could you please get a sample letter or at least a list of points you would like me to hit? I don’t have enough knowledge on the subject.
Click to expand...
I would suggest pulling some of the points in the SFAB motion that Wildmanyeah posted and these ones:

  • There is a vibrant and active sport fishing community in Howe Sound both recreational and guiding.
  • These recommendations will have serious socio and economic impact on the above user groups.
  • That DFO needs to look at the cumulative affect of their actions. No fishing in RCA and now Sponge Reef Closures.
  • As anglers we need structure, which breaks up current, which attracts bait fish, which attracts salmon and allows a recreational opportunity and said opportunities are often well above bottom and therefore there can be a Sponge Reef Closure to protect the sponge reefs and a safe and viable sport fishery in the same place. I pointed out all the significant structure we don’t have access to; Halibut Bank, McCall Bank, the 7 RCA in HS, current Sponge Reef Closures in HS and now 8 more proposed Sponge Reef Closures in HS. The cumulative affect on sport fishing opportunity is very significant as is the local affect.
  • I argued for education and not closures. I brought up the fact the average angler has the ability to see exactly where he is using Navionics on his phone or chart plotter and RCA and Sponge Reef Closures are clearly marked. We do have the ability to set our traps easily and consistently outside these areas and we are in direct control of our fishing gear depth with sonar and downriggers, we are cognizant of where our gear is and we can, will, and do fish off the bottom.
  • I would argue they (DFO, Dive Community, Conservation Community) seem to think that we don’t necessarily know where we are fishing or where are gear is in the water column.
  • There was a person that argued we don’t know where we are and we troll into RCA all the time, I replied that I have personally put in hundreds of hours in HS each year and have never seen anyone in an RCA salmon fishing but have seen occasional blatant poaching by non-salmon fishing anglers on the drift and DFO has been called.
  • I asked that we work together on education and not closures, lets keep it open and educate, not close down and not enforce. I noted the sportfishing community has the most direct access to boaters in general and we can work with DFO to educate and it will have a far greater impact than closures with no enforcement
 
cohochinook said:
Thanks for posting Wildmanyeah! Laurie and Gerry have been extremely pro-active on this along with other SFAB participants.

What we need is for members of this Forum to engage on this with the Fisheries Minister directly and their MP's. People I know that are involved feel, unless significant backlash is done by sportfishers, this will be rubber stamped!:mad:

I strongly encourage everyone on this Forum to call or email the following to express your concerns:
Click to expand...

You should try to leverage support from some of the Facebook users. These FB users are the silent majority.

Vancouver Island Salmon Fishing
9,624 Members

https://www.facebook.com/groups/122351524580745/

Vancouver salmon fishing
856 Members

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1444954332476079/

hard core salmon fishing
7,061 Members

https://www.facebook.com/groups/hcsf1/
 
Please feel free to post this info Wildmanyeah on those sites. Thanks! The more sharing the better!

wildmanyeah said:
You should try to leverage support from some of the Facebook users. These FB users are the silent majority.

Vancouver Island Salmon Fishing
9,624 Members

https://www.facebook.com/groups/122351524580745/

Vancouver salmon fishing
856 Members

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1444954332476079/

hard core salmon fishing
7,061 Members

https://www.facebook.com/groups/hcsf1/[/QUO
Click to expand...
 
Thanks but no thanks I have head my head bitten off more then a few times trying to raise awareness with these crowd's. It's just F DFO, Ill do what I want, letters do nothing, F gofundme, if you want to make a difference stop the netting, kill the seals ect.... Someone with more clout than me needs to take the FB crowd on. Maybe get bon chocy or pacific angler to do up a post on their FB page and it can be shared to these sites.

good luck!

upload_2019-1-21_13-37-35.png
upload_2019-1-21_13-38-14.png
 
Last edited:
You would hope Bon Chovy, Gibbs delta( rick clark) Pacific angler and a few others that make $$ off of this area would be the ones leading the charge! There multi media platform especially Gibbs could be a great help!
 
Looking at the map, really doesn't seem like this should be a concern... Lots of places left to fish. Other issues that could require more attention right now. Not trying to cause a problem, here, but this is such a small portion of the Sound.
 
Stoisy said:
Looking at the map, really doesn't seem like this should be a concern... Lots of places left to fish. Other issues that could require more attention right now. Not trying to cause a problem, here, but this is such a small portion of the Sound.
Click to expand...

I think as I understand it the SFAB main concern is there is potentially a lot more spong reef/endangered reefs areas around the coast that just have not been identified.
 
Stoisy said:
Looking at the map, really doesn't seem like this should be a concern... Lots of places left to fish. Other issues that could require more attention right now. Not trying to cause a problem, here, but this is such a small portion of the Sound.
Click to expand...

May seem like lots of area still available to fish but the sponge areas are often situated in the exact areas with structure that are very specific popular fishing areas for salmon. You may not be fishing these spots yourself but soon they may take away one of your favorites - maybe one you even had all to yourself that was golden. When you add the RCA's , the first set of sponge reefs and now the second set of reefs with added buffer areas there actually is a surprising amount of top fishing areas disappearing in HS. And if you think this will stop here, think again. There just happens to be glass sponge scattered just about everywhere so you might not want to take this too lightly. Great if you prefer to spend your time on other issues needing attention but the ones working on this are doing it for very good reason. I suggest nobody should under estimate how this will eventually effect many fishing areas in Georgia Strait, not just HS. This is actually a very big issue if you are a rec fisherman. Seems too bad when education and fishing techniques could allow both sponge to be protected and rec downrigger fishing to exist in the same areas. And if you think rec fisherman trolling for salmon down on the bottom is the problem, I have witnessed myself the destruction of large sponge reefs due to run off caused by development and logging practices - huge amounts of silt that blanket the sponge and smothers it. Also I find it a bit hypocritical that Scuba Divers would be all for closures of downrigger fishing when they themselves damage sponge either by contact with them due to current and buoyancy issues and/or by stirring up mud and silt when swimming near them. Guess the divers should be banned too. Kind of reminds me of the whale watchers thinking fishing is the problem for SRKW and their chasing them for all hours of the day while they try to forage is just fine.
 
Last edited:
Peahead said:
May seem like lots of area still available to fish but the sponge areas are often situated in the exact areas with structure that are very specific popular fishing areas for salmon. You may not be fishing these spots yourself but soon they may take away one of your favorites - maybe one you even had all to yourself that was golden. When you add the RCA's , the first set of sponge reefs and now the second set of reefs with added buffer areas there actually is a surprising amount of top fishing areas disappearing in HS. And if you think this will stop here, think again. There just happens to be glass sponge scattered just about everywhere so you might not want to take this too lightly. Great if you prefer to spend your time on other issues needing attention but the ones working on this are doing it for very good reason. I suggest nobody should under estimate how this will eventually effect many fishing areas in Georgia Strait, not just HS. This is actually a very big issue if you are a rec fisherman. Seems too bad when education and fishing techniques could allow both sponge to be protected and rec downrigger fishing to exist in the same areas. And if you think rec fisherman trolling for salmon down on the bottom is the problem, I have witnessed myself the destruction of large sponge reefs due to run off caused by development and logging practices - huge amounts of silt that blanket the sponge and smothers it. Also I find it a bit hypocritical that Scuba Divers would be all for closures of downrigger fishing when they themselves damage sponge either by contact with them due to current and buoyancy issues and/or by stirring up mud and silt when swimming near them. Guess the divers should be banned too. Kind of reminds me of the whale watchers thinking fishing is the problem for SRKW and their chasing them for all hours of the day while they try to forage is just fine.
Click to expand...
Very well said Peahead. Thanks for the further insight!
 
Whitebuck said:
Once we have something closed we rarely get it back....
Click to expand...
Yes and this is what we're likely facing, if we don't have a big Outreach in opposition of it. As Peahead points out, education could go a long way for reducing impacts. Many of the groups pushing for this closure have the ear of the government. Decisions are being made without adequate consultation. We as Sportfisherman need to speak up and make our voices heard!
 
Only 12 days left to submit written feedback to DFO on the proposed Glass Sponge Reef banning the use of Downrigger Fishing in Glass Sponge Reefs in Howe Sound. This could also set a precedent for other areas. It's being done with very consultation could be implemented in April of this year.

You have until Feb 11 to send in written feedback to Terry.Charron@dfo-mpo.gc.ca and amy.mar@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

I felt it was very important to share with the FORUM. Please see below. I encourage everyone to write letters to the following people on it:


 
Some of you were asking me for a draft letter for submitting comments on this. You have until Feb 11 to send in written feedback to Terry.Charron@dfo-mpo.gc.ca and amy.mar@dfo-mpo.gc.ca Here's what I have put together. Feel free to use it as you see fit!

Hello Terry and Amy,

DFO/Glass Sponge Reef Closures to Downrigger Fishing

Re: Strait of Georgia and Howe Sound Glass Sponge Reef Conservation Initiative

I would like to provide feedback the proposed changes on the management and protection of Glass Sponge Reefs in Howe Sound. After reviewing the “Howe Sound Risk Assessment and Mitigation” presentation from the July 26, 2018 and January 17, 2019 from the workshops on Glass Sponge Reefs(see attached), I feel it is important to provide some feedback and recommendations on the report.

There is a vibrant and active sport fishing community in Howe Sound both recreational and guiding. The recommendation of closure of 8 Glass Sponge Reefs to downrigger fishing, will have serious socio and economic impact on the above user groups. I am not supportive of the restriction of downrigger cannon balls in the Glass Sponge Reef areas in Howe Sound based on the importance of the area to recreational salmon fishing and angler education being an effective tool to avoid impacting Glass Sponge Reefs in Howe Sound.

As anglers we need structure, which breaks up current, which attracts bait fish, which attracts salmon and allows a recreational opportunity and said opportunities are often well above bottom and therefore there can be a Sponge Reef Closure to protect the sponge reefs and a safe and viable sport fishery in the same place. Already with Rockfish Conservation Areas, there is significant structure that sport fisherman don’t have access to with 7 Rockfish Conservation Areas currently in Howe Sound. Now with 8 more proposed Sponge Reef Closures in Howe Sound, the cumulative affect on sport fishing opportunity is very significant.

I strongly believe a “ban” is not the correct way to proceed. I am supportive using education measures to increase awareness of avoiding bottom contact with glass sponge reefs in the area. The average angler has the ability to see, exactly where he or she is fishing using Navionics on their phone or chart plotter, we’re in direct control of our fishing gear depth with sonar and downriggers.

I look forward to hearing from you both on my feedback?

Thank you,
 
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