MILLERTIME
Member
X2......Your absolutely right.
This thread should be titled;
"Stop Possibility Of Tory Majority Goverment"
Stop Possibility of NDP Government
- Thread starter SerengetiGuide
- Start date
X2......Your absolutely right.
This thread should be titled;
"Stop Possibility Of Tory Majority Goverment"
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Please, anyone, explain to me how the NDP's fiscal policy is good for the country...I dare you!
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Actually, I'll go farther and say, explain to me how they won't absolutely destroy our economy, and therefore many will lose jobs, possibly some of you... IT'S NOT POSSIBLE!!! Because that's exactly what they will do....
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
LOL, this just shows that you don't get how the reality of corporations and who they pass the bill off to...that is what he is saying...IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT!!! ... Unless you are in a fantasy NDP world.
ratherbefishing
Well-Known Member
Politics is all BS. They are all liars and cheats and in the pockets of big business...NDP and Layton, Harper and the Tories and Iggy and the Liberals are all full of it.
Layton promises the world, Harper is just a plain old nut job, and Iggy is a professor NOT a politican.
Selecting the 'best of the worst' is not a good choice to have to make. No matter who wins, IMO...we are all SCREWED.
Layton promises the world, Harper is just a plain old nut job, and Iggy is a professor NOT a politican.
Selecting the 'best of the worst' is not a good choice to have to make. No matter who wins, IMO...we are all SCREWED.
Last edited by a moderator:
Gunsmith
Well-Known Member
scott craven
Well-Known Member
my inclination is to vote independent because i agree with RBF
SerengetiGuide I used to think a lot like you, after 6 years of uni and fresh in the workforce I fought for less gov, breaks to the employers as it should trickle down right, I figured with enough hard work I could become part of the group that has. The dream is kept alive. As you get older and the frontal lobe develops more, and you keep up the education you start to find that you are working awfully hard and helping make others rich, and maybe everyone is not honest enough to pay you your due. Education and age will make you lean left, it's not a fantasy world, it's just being fair to all who work hard and want to help people whom are unable to, or have worked hard all their lives(seniors).
Do we really need fighter jets, jails when crime is falling? eliminating some of this wasteful spending that seems to appeal to the bottom 30% of the IQ pool by spewing need for defense and being unpatriotic if you disagree would easily pay for Jack's plan. Remember we went in another $50B in debt last year with a "fiscally responsible" government.
I have never voted NDP until I moved here and it was purely a strategic vote against the conservatives, but this time it will be with a clear conscience
MILLERTIME
Member
X2........
Gunsmith
Well-Known Member
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Sir Winston Churchill.
I love the man's wit, which all of it comes from experience either in battle or in Parliament.
Bessie Braddock: Sir, you are drunk.
Churchill: And you, madam, are ugly. But in the morning, I shall be sober.
Again the wit of a great man.
Sir Winston Churchill.
I love the man's wit, which all of it comes from experience either in battle or in Parliament.
Bessie Braddock: Sir, you are drunk.
Churchill: And you, madam, are ugly. But in the morning, I shall be sober.
Again the wit of a great man.
Sushihunter
Active Member
Be Carefull What You Wish For
Interesting discussion.
If you look at the most recent polls, the NDP are way ahead of the Liberals nationally. We know from experience that a lot of that support will be here in BC and a lot of that will be on Vancouver Island thanks to a heavy concerntration of Forestry, Mining, Fishery and government workers.
There is a good chance that Vancouver Island North will fall to the socialists. Nanaimo and Victoria area ridings could also swing to the NDP if the polls are correct.
Don't think for a minute that Jack Layton could NOT become PM if the vote on Monday swings in his favour.
All it would take is for Layton to call on the Liberals and the Bloc to support him in voting non-confidence in the same budget that the Conservatives have already presented to Parliament in the last House. As the NDP will likely have more seats than the Liberals, it will be Jack Layton who becomes PM under those rules.
For us guides and small business owners who think the Halibut Allocation issue is hurting our business - just wait til Jack gets in your pocket!
Carbon tax on fuel will push our costs up, push our rates up and force people to give up on a west coast fishing vacation. Less customers with less money to spend. Higher costs to stay in business and lower profits.
Anyone remember the National Energy Policy? Oil rigs were lined up at the border like a Thanksgiving parade waiting to get out of Canada and head south to the US.
Those of us in BC had better reflect back on the BC NDP governments of the past. Not happy days for anyone. As much as we may dislike the BC Liberals, they have got things running in BC again to the benefit of all of us.
Look, I hate the Halibut Allocation as much, and maybe more than some of you here, but am I willing to throw the country to the wolves over one policy that I disagree with? No.
I thought long and hard about it. I held my nose and put an X beside John Duncan's name on the ballot (advance poll). As a member of the party, I have access to these guys that I can use to keep pounding them on the Halibut issue.
One thing I intend to do is look for a replacement candidate to replace Duncan in the next election -which could be 6 months away if the NDP/Liberal/Bloc Coalition takes power.
Anyone here think they got the jam to be a Conservative MP for Vancouver Island North? Get hold of me privately.
Interesting discussion.
If you look at the most recent polls, the NDP are way ahead of the Liberals nationally. We know from experience that a lot of that support will be here in BC and a lot of that will be on Vancouver Island thanks to a heavy concerntration of Forestry, Mining, Fishery and government workers.
There is a good chance that Vancouver Island North will fall to the socialists. Nanaimo and Victoria area ridings could also swing to the NDP if the polls are correct.
Don't think for a minute that Jack Layton could NOT become PM if the vote on Monday swings in his favour.
All it would take is for Layton to call on the Liberals and the Bloc to support him in voting non-confidence in the same budget that the Conservatives have already presented to Parliament in the last House. As the NDP will likely have more seats than the Liberals, it will be Jack Layton who becomes PM under those rules.
For us guides and small business owners who think the Halibut Allocation issue is hurting our business - just wait til Jack gets in your pocket!
Carbon tax on fuel will push our costs up, push our rates up and force people to give up on a west coast fishing vacation. Less customers with less money to spend. Higher costs to stay in business and lower profits.
Anyone remember the National Energy Policy? Oil rigs were lined up at the border like a Thanksgiving parade waiting to get out of Canada and head south to the US.
Those of us in BC had better reflect back on the BC NDP governments of the past. Not happy days for anyone. As much as we may dislike the BC Liberals, they have got things running in BC again to the benefit of all of us.
Look, I hate the Halibut Allocation as much, and maybe more than some of you here, but am I willing to throw the country to the wolves over one policy that I disagree with? No.
I thought long and hard about it. I held my nose and put an X beside John Duncan's name on the ballot (advance poll). As a member of the party, I have access to these guys that I can use to keep pounding them on the Halibut issue.
One thing I intend to do is look for a replacement candidate to replace Duncan in the next election -which could be 6 months away if the NDP/Liberal/Bloc Coalition takes power.
Anyone here think they got the jam to be a Conservative MP for Vancouver Island North? Get hold of me privately.
hastamanana
Member
me too. time for a new horse
Sushihunter
Active Member
Bicycle Jack a national problem
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/opinions/archives/2011/04/20110429-084932.html
Bicycle Jack a national problem
8:49 am, April 29th, 2011
New Democratic Party (NDP) leader Jack Layton gives thumbs up to the crowd at a campaign rally in Gatineau, Quebec, April 25, 2011.
Credits: REUTERS/Patrick Doyle
SUE-ANN LEVY | QMI AGENCY
TORONTO - When NDP Leader Jack Layton left City Hall for greener federal pastures in the spring of 2003, I bid good riddance (to bad rubbish).
I figured he couldn't do much damage being the head of a moribund third party. I could be eating my words on Monday night.
Not that Bicycle Jack, or the Patron Saint of the Environment or Just Jack the Smog Saviour - the names I gave him depending on what cause of the day he was pushing - ever made life dull.
Nevertheless I quickly learned that whenever he rolled up the sleeves of his buttoned-down shirts in some city committee or in council - his trademark gesture to show he was the Everyman - Layton was about to make some pronouncement that would jack up our taxes.
Whatever pet cause he was zealously promoting - the environment, the homeless or himself - money was no object to this relentless spender.
The Patron Saint of Many Causes had no problem, either, making a shameless spectacle of the very people he purported to be championing.
I will never forget that day in the fall of 1998 when - as 450 of his homeless friends and assorted poverty pimps packed the council chambers - he convinced councillors to declare homelessness a "national disaster" in Toronto along the lines of an ice storm or tsunami.
But Layton achieved what he intended. He promoted himself as the council point person on homelessness and manipulated then mayor Mel Lastman into pouring millions and millions of dollars into emergency homeless shelters, grants and what I called not-so-affordable housing.
His homeless schemes didn't stop there.
In June of 2000, he tried to convince councillors the city should erect "creative" emergency shelters - trailers, tents and mobile homes - to allow the homeless to live in downtown parks all summer.
Less than a year later, he did manage to persuade a majority of councillors to proceed with proposals for pre-fab housing (at $50,000 to $100,000 per home) to accommodate the squatters living in Tent City on a waterfront piece of property. Those squatters were finally evicted a few months later, much to Layton's chagrin.
It should come as no surprise that his hypocrisy extended to his environmental crusade as well.
Despite repeatedly painting himself as a Smog Saviour, Layton was found to be one of the highest users of the city's fleet of limos.
When I questioned Bicycle Jack about it in 2001, he told me 20% of the 541 rides he used were to "deliver stuff quickly and efficiently" to constituents and the rest were to get to the airport or to a ward meeting.
His outdid himself, however, in October of 2000 when he convinced his NDP pals on council to grandstand for eight long days at council in an attempt to derail the $1-billion contract to ship Toronto's garbage to the abandoned Adams Mine site near Kirkland Lake.
The deal eventually fell through and we can thank Layton for spearheading the back-up plan - that is, to send Toronto's trash using up to 200 trucks daily along Hwy. 401 to a Michigan landfill site, a far more costly and environmentally unfriendly deal which ended just last year.
Let's not forget Layton's partner in crime - wife Olivia Chow, now an NDP MP, who made some very unholy alliances while at City Hall, particularly with the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty (OCAP) terrorists.
A fierce opponent of the revitalization of the island airport, Chow was there along with her islander friends protesting the day Porter Air took off for the first time.
So this folks is what Canadians can look forward to if the Patron Saint of Many Causes finds himself in a position of power, or heaven forbid, prime minister: Shameless theatrics, A Sky's the Limit attitude when it comes to spending on the environment and the downtrodden; A Unions Rule mentality and most of all Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes.
Let's not forget one other bonus - Olivia Chow snuggling up next to him at 24 Sussex.
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/opinions/archives/2011/04/20110429-084932.html
Bicycle Jack a national problem
8:49 am, April 29th, 2011
Credits: REUTERS/Patrick Doyle
SUE-ANN LEVY | QMI AGENCY
TORONTO - When NDP Leader Jack Layton left City Hall for greener federal pastures in the spring of 2003, I bid good riddance (to bad rubbish).
I figured he couldn't do much damage being the head of a moribund third party. I could be eating my words on Monday night.
Not that Bicycle Jack, or the Patron Saint of the Environment or Just Jack the Smog Saviour - the names I gave him depending on what cause of the day he was pushing - ever made life dull.
Nevertheless I quickly learned that whenever he rolled up the sleeves of his buttoned-down shirts in some city committee or in council - his trademark gesture to show he was the Everyman - Layton was about to make some pronouncement that would jack up our taxes.
Whatever pet cause he was zealously promoting - the environment, the homeless or himself - money was no object to this relentless spender.
The Patron Saint of Many Causes had no problem, either, making a shameless spectacle of the very people he purported to be championing.
I will never forget that day in the fall of 1998 when - as 450 of his homeless friends and assorted poverty pimps packed the council chambers - he convinced councillors to declare homelessness a "national disaster" in Toronto along the lines of an ice storm or tsunami.
But Layton achieved what he intended. He promoted himself as the council point person on homelessness and manipulated then mayor Mel Lastman into pouring millions and millions of dollars into emergency homeless shelters, grants and what I called not-so-affordable housing.
His homeless schemes didn't stop there.
In June of 2000, he tried to convince councillors the city should erect "creative" emergency shelters - trailers, tents and mobile homes - to allow the homeless to live in downtown parks all summer.
Less than a year later, he did manage to persuade a majority of councillors to proceed with proposals for pre-fab housing (at $50,000 to $100,000 per home) to accommodate the squatters living in Tent City on a waterfront piece of property. Those squatters were finally evicted a few months later, much to Layton's chagrin.
It should come as no surprise that his hypocrisy extended to his environmental crusade as well.
Despite repeatedly painting himself as a Smog Saviour, Layton was found to be one of the highest users of the city's fleet of limos.
When I questioned Bicycle Jack about it in 2001, he told me 20% of the 541 rides he used were to "deliver stuff quickly and efficiently" to constituents and the rest were to get to the airport or to a ward meeting.
His outdid himself, however, in October of 2000 when he convinced his NDP pals on council to grandstand for eight long days at council in an attempt to derail the $1-billion contract to ship Toronto's garbage to the abandoned Adams Mine site near Kirkland Lake.
The deal eventually fell through and we can thank Layton for spearheading the back-up plan - that is, to send Toronto's trash using up to 200 trucks daily along Hwy. 401 to a Michigan landfill site, a far more costly and environmentally unfriendly deal which ended just last year.
Let's not forget Layton's partner in crime - wife Olivia Chow, now an NDP MP, who made some very unholy alliances while at City Hall, particularly with the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty (OCAP) terrorists.
A fierce opponent of the revitalization of the island airport, Chow was there along with her islander friends protesting the day Porter Air took off for the first time.
So this folks is what Canadians can look forward to if the Patron Saint of Many Causes finds himself in a position of power, or heaven forbid, prime minister: Shameless theatrics, A Sky's the Limit attitude when it comes to spending on the environment and the downtrodden; A Unions Rule mentality and most of all Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes.
Let's not forget one other bonus - Olivia Chow snuggling up next to him at 24 Sussex.
Islandgirl
Well-Known Member
Sushihunter..it appears you are VERY well connected with the conservative party.
It has appeared that way previously and now it is the spoken truth!
Bassblaster
Active Member
There have been some excellent arguments here on behalf of both sides and it is too bad that we cannot take the best ideas of all and combine them into a system that would actually work. The fact is that every existing party, and every existing party leader, have had their "kick at the cat" as far as disgraceful politics are concerned. But look at the group on this site. I'm standing on the sidelines watching intelligent men and women berate each others political choices when the fact is that what we are trying to do here is literally elect the official that will do the least amount of damage to the country, not the most amount of good. What the hell? What kind of country are we that we would let the people that lead our country fall to this level?
2012 is supposed to be the end of the world, AS WE KNOW IT. Maybe that prediction isn't about imminent destruction. Maybe it's about people awakening to the fact that they don't have to live the way they are, and that by changing our perspectives we can change the world.
Does Canada need change? Absolutely. Does that mean a simple change of party or leadership? Maybe today, but not long term.
Maybe it's time as a nation we take a long hard look at our parties and politicians and say "You know what, You suck and we're not going to vote for you because you're all useless."
Maybe it's time for a new national party with a platform based on the leadership styles of great men like Churchill, Patton, Kennedy, Lincoln, and others. These men were great leaders because they gave a shiat, and didn't take any.
Everyone has the opinion that THEY could run the country better than this band of idiots. Well, gentlemen and ladies, here's your chance. It's time for a new National political party in Canada. One made up of people with a real grasp on reality and what matters. One that has balls to stand up to lawyers and big business and say "We aren't playing your games anymore. We are here for the people and the country." Like Reagan and the air traffic controllers. "you get back to work or you're fired' attitude.
I'm up for the challenge if anyone else is.
2012 is supposed to be the end of the world, AS WE KNOW IT. Maybe that prediction isn't about imminent destruction. Maybe it's about people awakening to the fact that they don't have to live the way they are, and that by changing our perspectives we can change the world.
Does Canada need change? Absolutely. Does that mean a simple change of party or leadership? Maybe today, but not long term.
Maybe it's time as a nation we take a long hard look at our parties and politicians and say "You know what, You suck and we're not going to vote for you because you're all useless."
Maybe it's time for a new national party with a platform based on the leadership styles of great men like Churchill, Patton, Kennedy, Lincoln, and others. These men were great leaders because they gave a shiat, and didn't take any.
Everyone has the opinion that THEY could run the country better than this band of idiots. Well, gentlemen and ladies, here's your chance. It's time for a new National political party in Canada. One made up of people with a real grasp on reality and what matters. One that has balls to stand up to lawyers and big business and say "We aren't playing your games anymore. We are here for the people and the country." Like Reagan and the air traffic controllers. "you get back to work or you're fired' attitude.
I'm up for the challenge if anyone else is.
Steelhead S2
Active Member
Well, first of all, equating the current federal NDP with socialism is inaccurate to the point of silliness. That would be like equating the Cons with other radical political movements that history has left behind. Not that there aren't some NDPers who might identify with socialism, but once again, there are certainly Cons that hold radical minority views on any number of controversial issues. Due to the disrespect shown to the voting public by the Con leadership, no one here feels the urge to throw that mud. Typical of Cons to resort to defamation, though, because they are so clearly losing the good fight.
As far as the economic "threat" posed by the NDP, it is worth mentioning that there are currently two provincial NDP governments, both running balanced budgets. But fake lakes, tar sands subsidies, unneeded prisons, jet planes of undisclosed cost that will be technologically obsolete with the rise of drones, and all the other financial tomfoolery of the Cons holds the federal budget in the deepest deficit in history. To the point where the Cons won't even make a promise to Canadian working families that takes effect in less than 4 years -notice though that there are fast track promises made to big capital. Furthermore, the historical record shows that NDP governments have the best record of any party of running balanced budgets. So maybe instead of sucking ideology it's time to look at the facts and pay attention to the real fiscal record.
There was also some suggestion that corporate tax increases would hurt consumers. That just doesn't make sense in our free market economy. It's not as though corporations hold prices down out of kindness or gratitude for a lower tax rate. They have a duty to earn profits for their shareholders. Therefore prices are always at their highest. So raising corporate taxes will not flow through to consumers -that would only occur in monopoly capitalism, which the free market Cons are not supposed to represent.
As for risks to your businesses, that too is false. While the Cons appear to treat all corporations the same, other parties are able to tell the difference between closely held corporations and small businesses on the one hand, and giant multi nationals and conglomerates on the other. The NDP would actually stimulate small businesses with small business tax breaks. Plus, it is proposing tax credits for job creation. This in effect requires tax breaks to be earned, and promotes the creation of jobs with surplus profits rather than just sitting on the money or using it to take over other businesses and grow into a monopoly. At the end of the day, it makes sense to raise corporate taxes a bit and then reward companies that create jobs. That is good economic management. Funneling money from wage earners and working families to oil companies is not. Far from treating corporations and business as an evil, the NDP recognizes that it is the only way to create jobs and generate economic growth, and it wants to reward good corporate citizens.
There are a number of problems facing society that government is in the best position to confront. Poverty among children and seniors, credit card interest rates, pharmaceutical prices, and the environment are chief among them. It is high time that our government address climate issues, and a cap and trade system is an economically sound approach. It creates incentives for polluters to green and stimulates a market response. Once again, it makes sense for businesses to save money by polluting less. I can't see how that is controversial.
But economics isn't the only issue that matters. The Cons have been feeding us $hit with straight faces since they got into power. And we all know that they will continue to feed us the same, and treat us with the same disrespect and contempt, and continue to shirk their parliamentary duties. I for one don't like the taste. These arrogant, cynical Cons do not deserve another day in the house, let alone in power, because they do not respect the electorate. It is time for a change. And if that means a coalition (of parties actually cooperating and dealing with each other respectfully) then BRING IT ON!
PS: Sorry I din't address your post Blaster, just a little too late for this election. I'm with you though.
As far as the economic "threat" posed by the NDP, it is worth mentioning that there are currently two provincial NDP governments, both running balanced budgets. But fake lakes, tar sands subsidies, unneeded prisons, jet planes of undisclosed cost that will be technologically obsolete with the rise of drones, and all the other financial tomfoolery of the Cons holds the federal budget in the deepest deficit in history. To the point where the Cons won't even make a promise to Canadian working families that takes effect in less than 4 years -notice though that there are fast track promises made to big capital. Furthermore, the historical record shows that NDP governments have the best record of any party of running balanced budgets. So maybe instead of sucking ideology it's time to look at the facts and pay attention to the real fiscal record.
There was also some suggestion that corporate tax increases would hurt consumers. That just doesn't make sense in our free market economy. It's not as though corporations hold prices down out of kindness or gratitude for a lower tax rate. They have a duty to earn profits for their shareholders. Therefore prices are always at their highest. So raising corporate taxes will not flow through to consumers -that would only occur in monopoly capitalism, which the free market Cons are not supposed to represent.
As for risks to your businesses, that too is false. While the Cons appear to treat all corporations the same, other parties are able to tell the difference between closely held corporations and small businesses on the one hand, and giant multi nationals and conglomerates on the other. The NDP would actually stimulate small businesses with small business tax breaks. Plus, it is proposing tax credits for job creation. This in effect requires tax breaks to be earned, and promotes the creation of jobs with surplus profits rather than just sitting on the money or using it to take over other businesses and grow into a monopoly. At the end of the day, it makes sense to raise corporate taxes a bit and then reward companies that create jobs. That is good economic management. Funneling money from wage earners and working families to oil companies is not. Far from treating corporations and business as an evil, the NDP recognizes that it is the only way to create jobs and generate economic growth, and it wants to reward good corporate citizens.
There are a number of problems facing society that government is in the best position to confront. Poverty among children and seniors, credit card interest rates, pharmaceutical prices, and the environment are chief among them. It is high time that our government address climate issues, and a cap and trade system is an economically sound approach. It creates incentives for polluters to green and stimulates a market response. Once again, it makes sense for businesses to save money by polluting less. I can't see how that is controversial.
But economics isn't the only issue that matters. The Cons have been feeding us $hit with straight faces since they got into power. And we all know that they will continue to feed us the same, and treat us with the same disrespect and contempt, and continue to shirk their parliamentary duties. I for one don't like the taste. These arrogant, cynical Cons do not deserve another day in the house, let alone in power, because they do not respect the electorate. It is time for a change. And if that means a coalition (of parties actually cooperating and dealing with each other respectfully) then BRING IT ON!
PS: Sorry I din't address your post Blaster, just a little too late for this election. I'm with you though.
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