Marine Battery Wiring

I will get one of the Battery Packs for emergency use but am not sure that they would provide sufficient power to start up a 225 Opti. The manual calls for a minimum 1000 CCA starting battery for the Opti. I guess you could use it to get the Kicker going and then use the output from the Kicker to assist the battery pack with getting the main going. I would be the first to admit I don’t know much about motor starting requirements.
The extra long jumper cables sound like a good idea. It would be embarrassing, but better than bobbing around like a buoy without power or having to have someone tow you all the way in.
I just bought two 15 watt solar panels for the cabin roof, with charging controls which should provide about 2 amps of charging per hour on a clear day to help keep the batteries topped up. I guess I will find out if they are as weather proof as the manufacture claims – in a salt water environment.
 
I have a Lifetimer Aluminum boat that was wired according to standards that Lifetimer subscribes to, some form of association of marine manufacturers.

There were things that caught my attention that I asked about and found interesting.

Similar to what others are saying there are two batteries, going into a battery isolation switch.

One battery is a cranking battery, one is a house battery. They are manufactured very differenty.

I have two bilge pumps that are mounted at different heights, and they are each fed two ways:

- one feed is from a battery directy through a float switch with an inline fuse sized to the amperage rating of the pumps. If the pumps are required to protect the boat, the pumps will go on irrespective of the position of the battery isolation switch. The highest pump (last to go on with increasing water level) is wired to the cranking battery, so I have the maximum opportunity to start.
-the other feed is from the main bus though a rocker switch (must hold down to run so it is not forgotten on) so that a small ammount of bilge water can be pumped off, or so that the pumps can be tested. I always test both my pumps before going offshore.

The batteries are mounted in the boat so that they sit perpendicular to the length of the boat. I was advised this is so that the jarring action of the boat pounding in the waves is less likely to dislodge a plate in the battery, thereby grounding it.

All wire is of course tinned. The terminals are sprayed with a filming grease. All wire connections are crimped with shrink tubing over.

I use the boat running to the fishing area with the starting battery, and then shut down and switch to the house battery. I troll and then run in with it to allow it to charge. I do not run Radar, or a fridge or freezer so perhaps my operating conditions are different than some of you. I have never run short of capacity, and with this routine have never risked having power to start.

I am cycling my battery age, changing one battery every two years, so that I am using a battery four years before replacement.
 
The only thing I don't like about your setup NikNak is that you have to remember to switch over to your house battery when you stop the boat and start fishing. I assume you then switch back to your starter battery, start the boat, and switch back to your house battery whilst you run back so you can charge it. Don't get me wrong your setup is totally safe, you been using it for years etc... but I guess it's just me and the human error issue, I hate switching batteries, that's why I love those auto isolation switches, just wire one battery as a sole starter and the other with all your accessories, it'll then charge them both when it can and when the load is too high you'll just be running on your house.

Cheers
 
I “personally” would “MUCH” rather have “NikNak’s” setup. Guess it goes back to different strokes, for different folks!

What he is doing (and in his particular case) – he really doesn’t need to remember anything, other than “not” run his switch in the “both” position? He probably isn’t even draining his “house” battery – unless he’s leaving his lights on at night?

The ‘Bluesea’ is a SI-Series Automatic Charging Relay “ACR” So first, I would have to ask… If using an “ACR” putting the batteries in a parallel (combining) the batteries during charging - are the batteries properly matched? That itself can create problems? Then knowing an ACR by design, is to allow two batteries, to be connected so that they can share the output of a single charge source, allowing the user to charge more battery banks than the number of charging outputs. That equates - to twice the charging time. Then on different battery types? With batteries drained to unequal levels? All done by one alternator? Again, I hope the “sense” wires are correct and working? The voltage drop to 12.75 disconnecting and isolating the batteries - “would” be a about the “only” good thing I can see? Or, am I totally missing something? Way to many questions and variations – to ever recommend the use of an "ACR" for that application? [V]
quote: What is an ACR, and how does it work?
What is an ACR? An ACR parallels (combines) batteries during charging, and isolates them when charging has stopped and after battery voltage has fallen. An ACR is intended to keep a load from discharging both of the batteries.
• How does an ACR work? An ACR senses when the voltage of either of the batteries rises to a level indicating that a charge source is active (13.0V for 2 minutes). The ACR#8242;s contacts then connect and the ACR applies the charge to both batteries. If the voltage on both of the batteries subsequently drops to 12.75V for 30 seconds, the ACR will disconnect, isolating the batteries.
• Why do I need an ACR? An ACR allows two battery banks to be connected so that they can share the output of a single charge source, allowing the user to charge more battery banks than the number of charging outputs. For example, an ACR can be used with a single-output charger, resulting in a simpler system at lower cost than a dual-output charger.
• How many ACRs do I need? To combine two battery banks, one ACR is needed; to combine three battery banks, two ACRs are required.
What are some features of ACRs?
• What does “Dual Sensing” mean? A dual-sensing ACR will sense an active charge source on one or both batteries and not solely on a designated battery. The ACR will operate if the measured voltage on either of the terminals is of a level to initiate a connection or disconnection.
• How does an ACR differ from a battery isolator? Battery isolators use one-way electrical check valves called diodes that allow current to flow to, but not from, the battery. ACRs use a relay combined with a circuit that senses when a charging source is being applied to either battery. ACRs are more efficient than battery isolators because they create little heat and consume minimal charging energy.
• Will an ACR manage the charge of my individual battery banks? An ACR does not direct the charge to the battery that “needs it the most” or has the lowest terminal voltage. If there is a charge present on either battery, indicated by a high enough voltage, the ACR will combine the batteries. To read more about this subject click here to download the ADD-A-BATTERY Sales Sheet (1000kb - PDF file).
• What Charge Sources will an ACR work with? An ACR will work with all charge sources, including an alternator, AC charger, or solar panel. However, low current charge sources might not produce the voltage rise required to force the ACR to combine.
What else do I need to know about my ACR?
• What are the minimum number of connections I need to make my ACR work? Three: One wire to each battery, and one for a ground (GND) connection. For safety reasons, remember to disconnect the negative battery connections before beginning any ACR installation. See this article for more information on selecting the right fuses for Blue Sea Systems ACRs: See Selecting the Appropriate Fuse Rating When Installing the 120A SI ACR
• What does “Undervoltage Lockout” mean? As a safety feature, some ACRs prevent combining into a severely discharged battery. A dual-sensing ACR will monitor the voltage on both batteries and will not connect if either battery is below the undervoltage lockout level. Use caution when combining into a battery with extremely low voltage, because this might represent a faulty battery or a problem elsewhere in the system.
• Why doesn't my ACR automatically combine every time my engine is running? For an ACR to automatically combine the batteries, voltage and time thresholds must be reached. Although these numbers vary somewhat from one ACR product to another, if ACR terminal voltage is greater than 13.0V for 2 minutes, the ACR should combine.
• Why didn't the ACR disconnect when my engine was turned off? The ACR will not disconnect until the low voltage threshold is reached to isolate the circuit. It may take several minutes for the voltage of the batteries to drop to this level. Since the ACR incorporates a delay, additional time (up to 2 minutes) is required before the ACR disconnects.
• Where can I get more troubleshooting information? For specific troubleshooting help with SI-Series PN 7610 and ML-Series PNs 7620, 7621, 7622, and 7623 ACRs, click on the following links: SI-Series ACR Diagnostic Flowchart or ML-Series ACR Diagnostic Flowchart. For more information on specific ACR applications, please visit www.bluesea.com/resources and navigate to Application Briefs and Technical Briefs.
Click to expand...
http://bluesea.com/viewresource/1366

Personally - Nicely done NikNak – I think you are on top of things and in very good shape! Good post! [^][^]

To add:
The cranking battery is a marine “starting” battery (not designed to be completely discharged) – your house battery, is probably a marine “deep cycle” (designed to be fully discharged). Yes, there is a difference and really should "not" be charged at the same time - by the same source!

Unless there is some reason your alternator should have the starting (cranking) battery “topped off”, within 10-15 minutes? I personally am more interested in getting that charge back in my drained“ house batteries” (conditions are different than you), so once running - I always switch back to my house as soon as possible, just like ‘NewMoon’. You don’t need to shut the engine down – it’s just a good idea to never turn the battery switch to the “off” position, unless you know your system is designed for that?

Batteries are an interesting thing… Everyone can tell you long they “should” last, no one can tell you how long they “will” last, but everyone can do a test and tell the condition and if “needed” to be replaced… Nevertheless, a battery that “needs” to be replaced can still perform for years?

You might be leaving a little money on the table there – depending on the quality of batteries? Battery life is more measured in cycles than years, especially “deep cycle”! The more often you drain them… the sooner the expected replacement! And yes, there is a difference in quality and “marine” verses “auto”! Depending on the quality of the batteries, they should work at least for three year? Check the age or length of service (and number of cycles) - recommended by the manufacture, if you are within their specifications and keep the battery maintained – you should “not” have to replace the battery? Length of warranty – usually does goes hand-in-hand, with the quality! I “NEVER” buy cheap batteries – I look for the “best” battery, at the cheapest price. My boat is a 2003, which I bought in 2006. It did/does “not” have the recommended “factory” batteries however; I do check them and have decided to keep them, until replacement is needed. Then I will probably go back to the factory recommended? My batteries are about five years old and I am just now starting to look, test, inspect, and now expecting possible replacement? If you test your batteries – they will normally tell you when you have to replace?

Just some more things to think about! :)
 
Fair play Charlie, good post, you are right about different strokes for different folks. I guess in my situation it works really well. Start the boat go to fishing grounds, switch off, start kicker (with alternator) fish all day, start engine go home and plug in shore power. For me the system works top notch.

My batteries are matched, I hardly use any power out of my starter battery ie. number of times I am starting/stopping the main. The biggest drain during the day would be on my House battery. Battery charger on overnight has them both topped up in the morning.

But that is my situation.

To many variations to even recommend the use of an ACR? hmmmmmm.....Ok. Food for thought anyway.
 
I am a huge fan of the Automatic Charge Relay (ACR) system that was outlined above. It has some major advantages over any other series of switches or relays. In my opinion, the advantages of an ACR more than outweigh any potential from this device breaking down. I'd never do another system without it.

First -- no forgetting about setting the 1, 2, Both switch. Been there, done that, drained the batteries to prove it. I installed an ACR after getting stranded off Renfrew (got excited about fishing and plain old forgot)

Second, they completely isolate a bad battery -- so if you short a starter or house battery, it does not get added into the charging loop -- so a bad battery can't ruin your entire system.

Third, it protects all your electronics against voltage surge from starting.

IMHO it's the best $50 I've put into my electrical system. I used the one from Blue Sea Systems. Found this link online with an electrical layout schematic to make for an easier installation: http://www.onboardwithmarkcorke.com/on_board/2010/03/blue-sea-acr-install.html

I happened to have a Deep Cycle battery that I added in as a 2nd House Battery (3rd battery overall). I took my old 1, 2, Both switch and wired it in so that I can add this battery into the system as required to either provide some additional power to the house system or act as an emergency start.

Great overview on the ACR here: http://bluesea.com/viewresource/1366

TenMile
<'((((><
 
Glad to hear someone else using one of the ACR switches, gives me piece of mind!

TenMile - did the same thing and used the old four post switch so that I can switch over and start the engine with the House battery in case of an emergency. All it takes is a situation which takes your mind off the routine of switching batteries and you end up dead in the water.
 
Here's another great resource:
http://www.pridemarine.com/index.cfm?category=10002|10078

Supports Charlie's discussion about keeping batteries the same chemistry (matching them) -- but that's an principle that you need to apply with or without an ACR.



TenMile
<'((((><
 
quote:Originally posted by TenMile

Here's another great resource:
http://www.pridemarine.com/index.cfm?category=10002|10078

Supports Charlie's discussion about keeping batteries the same chemistry (matching them) -- but that's an principle that you need to apply with or without an ACR.
TenMile
<'((((><
Click to expand...
An ACR might work for some, but why... is beyond me? Probably would be great on a RV using two "matched" batteries?

But, on a boat? Beware??
 
I got a “bounce back”? So, here is the reply to the email received!

You can do a search on the internet, there is a lot of stuff about the different types of batteries and why “not” to mix the different types, to include different age – being used or charged by the same source.

“The two main types are Starting (cranking), and Deep Cycle (marine/golf cart). The starting battery (SLI starting lights ignition) is designed to deliver quick bursts of energy (such as starting engines) and therefore has a greater plate count. The plates are thinner and have somewhat different material composition. The deep cycle battery has less instant energy, but greater long-term energy delivery. Deep cycle batteries have thicker plates and can survive a number of discharge cycles. Starting batteries should not be used for deep cycle applications because the thinner plates are more prone to warping and pitting when discharged. The so-called Dual Purpose Battery is a compromise between the two types of batteries, though it is better to be more specific if possible.”

“ Battery Charging - Remember you must put back the energy you use immediately. If you don't the battery sulfates and that affects performance and longevity. The alternator is a battery charger. It works well if the battery is not deeply discharged. The alternator tends to overcharge batteries that are very low and the overcharge can damage batteries. In fact an engine starting battery on average has only about 10 deep cycles available when recharged by an alternator. Batteries like to be charged in a certain way, especially when they have been deeply discharged. This type of charging is called 3 step regulated charging. Please note that only special SMART CHARGERS using computer technology can perform 3 step charging techniques. You don't find these types of chargers in parts stores and Wal-Marts. The first step is bulk charging where up to 80% of the battery energy capacity is replaced by the charger at the maximum voltage and current amp rating of the charger. When the battery voltage reaches 14.4 volts this begins the absorption charge step. This is where the voltage is held at a constant 14.4 volts and the current (amps) declines until the battery is 98% charged. Next comes the Float Step. This is a regulated voltage of not more than 13.4 volts and usually less than 1 amp of current. This in time will bring the battery to 100% charged or close to it. The float charge will not boil or heat batteries but will maintain the batteries at 100% readiness and prevent cycling during long term inactivity. Some Gel Cell and AGM batteries may require special settings or chargers.”

What happens is, each battery type (and age) will have its rate of discharge and re-charge. While the battery is draining it drains at a different rate and then will try to equalize between the different types – not good. Then when you put a charge to them… the different plates will accept the charge at a different rate, again not good. If you are charging two batteries – that are not matched, one battery draining and charging faster, will result in an “overcharge” on one battery. That will result (at best) – reduced life of that battery… (at worst) - the battery will “fail” – normally they just fail! But, and yes… there could excessive heating of the battery resulting in either an internal or external explosion!

Do NOT every put a “full” charge (alternator or charger) to batteries of different types, from the same source, at the same time! Nor do you ever want to “parallel” different types of batteries for that reason!

Hope this helps?
Cheers,
 
Thanks Charlie for the depth of information. This is not easy to find, and you have enlightened me!

Tight lines.
 
All these questions about batteries got me thinking about mine.

If the battery is new/good condition what should the voltage read at rest and then when being charged by the engine when trolling?

My battery is at 12.25-12.5 volts at rest and when trolling on the big motor (130hp Honda) is at 14.5 volts. Does this sound about right?

Long live wild salmon!!!
><))))>
 
Thanks for the link. This is the first explanation of dual battery wiring that I have fully understood. It now makes complete sense to me. I now know why you should never use the "both" setting except in unusual circumstances.
 
That is a very good article! I hope everone reads it! :D

But be careful of what you are reading? And, what you are reading into it? There is a big difference between showing 12.25 and 12.5 volts at rest! And when trolling on the big motor (130hp Honda) is at 14.5 volts, doesn’t mean much of anything, other than the alternator is producing 14.5 volts… that is “not” the state of any of the battery(s)… and does “not” mean the battery(s) are accepting anything? That is neither good or bad? Plus, that was based off of 77 degrees F? You get your "truer" reading at "rest"!
quote: Here are no-load typical voltages vs state of charge
(figured at 10.5 volts = fully discharged, and 77 degrees F). Voltages are for a 12 volt battery system. For 24 volt systems multiply by 2, for 48 volt system, multiply by 4. VPC is the volts per individual cell - if you measure more than a .2 volt difference between each cell, you need to equalize, or your batteries are going bad, or they may be sulfated. These voltages are for batteries that have been at rest for 3 hours or more. Batteries that are being charged will be higher - the voltages while under charge will not tell you anything, you have to let the battery sit for a while. For longest life, batteries should stay in the green zone. Occasional dips into the yellow are not harmful, but continual discharges to those levels will shorten battery life considerably. It is important to realize that voltage measurements are only approximate. The best determination is to measure the specific gravity, but in many batteries this is difficult or impossible. Note the large voltage drop in the last 10%.+
Click to expand...

http://www.mercurymarine.com/serviceandwarranty/outboardfaqs/electrical.php
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/12volt.htm
http://www.fishin.com/articles/RickMcferrin/trollingbatteries.htm
 
Yep it’s a good article. This website has lots of info. Here is a link to the index.
http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/Ramblings.html

Best to look at the front page too. http://www.sschapterpsa.com/

Not sure if it’s in the article but if you have a newer large hp merc, make sure you have plenty of battery power to start and run that puppy. Heard that they can be troublesome with a week battery.
GLG
 
I have finally got to the point where I am rewiring my setup and I just wanted to check if what I am going to do is correct.

Once again, I have 2 batteries, one switch (1,2,both and off), one main engine, and an electric start kicker.

I will be connecting the positive from the main engine to the switch and the negative to battery 1. I will have another negative wire connecting the 2 batteries together and then another negative to my distribution panel (bus). The switch will have a positive wire to each positive post for the 1 and 2 positions.

So far, this is simple. What to do with the kicker positive and negative is my question. I was thinking that I can either:

Attach the kicker's positive to the same places the main engine is connected

Or isolate the main engine's positive and negative wires to battery 1 and hook up the kicker's wires to battery 2, then have a negative wire connecting both batteries and run only one negative from one battery to the distribution panel. The positive wire for the main engine would go from battery 1 to position 1 on the switch and from battery 2 to position 2 for the kicker.

Any words of wisdom as to which is best? The first option is easiest if it works, but the second option seems more reliable.

The reason for my confusion is that the electric kicker is new in my set up. I had a pull start kicker before so no charging system with it.

I like it,
I love it,
I want some more of it!
 
Attach the kicker's positive to the same places the main engine is connected

Thats what I did.

kittyjuly1409055-1.jpg
 
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