Marine Battery Wiring

[Gomesy]

Hey guys,

I currently have a dual battery hook up with a switch, with an outboard engine. I also had a pull start kicker. My problem was that when I was tolling I was only draining the batteries as the kicker didn't have a charging system. I have now purchased a new kicker with a charging system and will be re-wiring everything. While doing some on-line research, I noticed that they talk about isolating a "starter battery" which only use is for starting/cranking. I found that during a weekend trip to Nootka, my batteries would be almost done after 1 day and I had to bring a charger to recharge the batteries overnight.

My question is: should I hook up 3 batteries? One for starting, and a dual bank for running electronics which on my boat would be 2 electric downriggers, a gps/fishfinder, radio, and guages.

Now that I have a kicker that charges, will I be safe with just a dual battery set up?

How many batteries and what type of wiring hookup do you guys use?

Thanks in advance.

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[the fog ducker]

Heres what i got Gomesy , thinkin fairly common .

3 motors ( if only 2 , they would be wired the same )
3 batteries ,
3 Switches
Each Motor has it's own "Isolated " Battery
My 4 stroke Yamaha Auxillary has the full Power Package , Electric Start, Tilt , Charging etc.. ( Common Today )
I also have a 3 Stage battery Bank Charger ( ShorePower ), this will keep your batteries bumped up when not in use ( Very Important for me )
I have a serious amount of electronics as well as a high powered sound system , If all running at the same time , Fishing the banks , Riggers working Feverishly , the auxillary battery can get Drained in a hurry , So , I fire up my one of my Larger Motors , troll with that. Each one of my main motors has an isolator charging wire, connected up to my auxillary ( Believe most larger motors have this option now ) This bumps up my Auxillary Battery in a hurry when she's up on step.

When fishing in the top 50 - 70 feet of water , not using Radar ,
( Inshore ) , this system works out quite well , Crankin up the tunes , usually not a problem...

Hope this helps
fire an email if ya'd like , I wired it all myself , Quite straight forward..

FD...


thefogducker@hotmail.com

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I hope some one will answer this one, because I am really interested to. I think that maybe the kicker should be hooked up to the secondary battery, that is used to run the electronics, and the down riggers. Maybe run home on the secondary to put a full charge on it. Big boats could have more then two (2) batteries if weight and space is not a problem. Looking forward to some expert adivce.....BB

 

[King_Cod]

I have an isolation switch with a dual battery setup. The kicker is wired separate from the main cranking power unless selected. The isolation switch has 3 options 1,2 and all batteries can be selected in case one battery fails you have a backup. In the all selection the main outboard will charge both batteries.

Worked well for me last week when i found my kicker battery was low on charge. Was able to start the kicker on the main and charge the battery while trolling.

Reel Chaos

 

[Fish Assassin]

I have riggers,sounder,prawn puller and radio(Plus A Volt Meter). I have one battery[8D] My kicker gives out better then my main motor. I have never had a problem(Carry a booster pack if worried). I run a Starter/Deep Cycle battery(I Buy new every couple years). I have never had more then one battery in any boat me and my family have ever owned.

No Radar
No Sound System

Fingers Crossed

 

[the fog ducker]

The Kicker Charging Sytem goes to your (Secondary) or better known as " Auxilary " Yes

As far as your " Multi " Isolator Switch ,I don't consider that really a Isolator,I call it a switch , I myself , would not trust that Off shore , Human Error , TOO RISKY , you could accidently leave it on " Both " drain BOTH ,Now ya got NO Power , I want my Main Motor (s) ISOLATED .. Could ya imagine going to start your main to get outta the way of a tanker or cargo vessel , Sitting Duck..[B)]

I keep a pair of Quality Jumpers handy ( from one battery to another ), , If Needed to jump start ,
my relatively un important Kicker , when your 30 miles OFF-Shore

- Important , We forget to do things in the heat of the moment , Especially if we are into some serious Fish ..[]

You Guides out there , what`s Transport Canadas pre Requisites on this safety issue , if any ?

Add a Note :

The main motor (s) have Seperate switches on my Rig ,Shutting off once I leave the boat, for any extended period of time , if theres no shore power to keep them trickle charged , Prevent any Current leakage.

Cheers..FD...

thefogducker@hotmail.com

 

[spring time]

I have the same setup assassin plus sound system. mine works awesome if you have a high thrust it has a bigger charging system than a regular electric start motor

 

[Weinstein]

I use one of these Bluesea System Auto Charging relays.

http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/387


It basically isolates your two batteries (Starter/House) the minute a load is detected which overcomes the alternator/chargers output. Therefore when you are running your main engine and the alternator is working it will automatically combine your batteries and charge both banks. Once you stop and run your kicker assuming it has an alternator it will continue to charge both banks until you start running enough accessories (riggers,GPS, sounder etc...) when it will isolate you Starter battery and draw from your House battery. This way the worst that can happen is you run down your House battery dead, in that case you will just have to turn something off or move to 2 House batteries.

This way you never have to worry about using those 4 post switches, which as Fog Ducker said could easily be left in the BOTH position. I have an emergency crossover switch if for some reason my starter battery craps out and won't take a charge.

This way the worst that can happen is you run down your House battery dead. If you are running that much stuff you might be wise to get a 2nd House battery.

Cheers

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by spring time

if you have a high thrust it has a bigger charging system than a regular electric start motor

I don't think so? [:0] You might want to check on that?

 

[seagal]

I run 2 engines, 2 batteries and a 3 position isolation switch. One starting battery and one deep cycle, which runs my down riggers and prawn puller. Main engine charges both. Starting 4th season with this set up and still going strong.[8D]

 

[Gomesy]

Great info so far guys. Thanks.

Does anyone have a simple schematic for a 3 battery system? I think I would feel more comfortable running offshore with 3 batteries than 2. However if it is too complicated then I will just use a 2 battery 1 switch system.

I like it,
I love it,
I want some more of it!

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by Gomesy

Hey guys,

I currently have a dual battery hook up with a switch, with an outboard engine. I also had a pull start kicker. My problem was that when I was tolling I was only draining the batteries as the kicker didn't have a charging system. I have now purchased a new kicker with a charging system and will be re-wiring everything. While doing some on-line research, I noticed that they talk about isolating a "starter battery" which only use is for starting/cranking. I found that during a weekend trip to Nootka, my batteries would be almost done after 1 day and I had to bring a charger to recharge the batteries overnight.

If you have two batteries you "should" have a battery switch that says "1", "2', "all" (or both) that switch will isolate the batteries. You should reserve one of your batteries for starting... you can also alternate your batteries. Just "DO NOT" run them in both!

quote:My question is: should I hook up 3 batteries? One for starting, and a dual bank for running electronics which on my boat would be 2 electric downriggers, a gps/fishfinder, radio, and guages.

No... you are not drawing enough to warrant a third battery? If you have three batteries, you need to remember - it does take three times longer in charging time. The third battery is great for one or two days, but then... your engine "probably" won't put out enough to charge the bank anyway? At least mine don't!

quote:Now that I have a kicker that charges, will I be safe with just a dual battery set up?

Safe - is anyting we do out there - "safe"?
As long as you are running your battery switch in one position and reserving the other for starting... and both batteries are good. You should be fine! Youl should check the "state" of the batteries once in awhile.

Your kicker probably puts out 6 amps charge at WOT? At an idle your main "might" put out 17 amps... while running "probably" more like 40 amps! These are "per hour" ratings! So, if you are trolling, your "kicker" might keep up? But, if you use 20 amps... it will take your "main" about 30 minutes "running" to put those amps back into the battery! If you put that battery switch to "both" you just doubled the charging time!

quote:How many batteries and what type of wiring hookup do you guys use?

I have three - but I also run a lot off of them!
It takes me about two full days, to run my "house bank" down to were it won't start my engine (my port battery is my "starting" battery - and I do watch my amp draw "very" closely when not able to connect to "shore power".

As soon as I start "my" boat I am drawing 14 amps. As soon as I start trolling, I can use around 40 amps (with fridge and freezer "off"... and depending on how often that "up and down" button is pushed.

You might want to take a look here?
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12574&SearchTerms=batteries

 

[Gomesy]

Thanks Charlie. You make some very good points and I think I understand it better now.

I have another question though: In a dual battery system with a switch where you manually determine one battery is used for starting and one for electronics, what do you do after you start your main engine? Do you turn the switch from the starting battery (1) to "BOTH" or to the "2" position or leave it in the "1" position when you want to charge the "2" battery?

If I understand Charlie correctly, it will take twice as long to charge the batteries if I have the switch in the "BOTH" position. I think I recall reading somewhere on the net that you should not be using the "BOTH" position anyway. Is there a way to set it up that once one battery is fully charged, the second battery then starts being charged?

Sorry for the ignorance, but I'm just unclear on the subject.

I like it,
I love it,
I want some more of it!

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by Gomesy

Thanks Charlie. You make some very good points and I think I understand it better now.

I have another question though: In a dual battery system with a switch where you manually determine one battery is used for starting and one for electronics, what do you do after you start your main engine? Do you turn the switch from the starting battery (1) to "BOTH" or to the "2" position or leave it in the "1" position when you want to charge the "2" battery?

If it was me?? I would go back to and use the “KISS” principle!

I would go back to the reason you have two batteries, which is to have a “backup” battery - in case your “main” battery was to rundown or go bad! If your system is set up right, your batteries go into the battery selector switch then to a “main” battery bus – everything should come off that main battery bus? If you select #1 that battery is running “everything” on your boat and is the one being charged… same-same, if you select #2. Same-same if your “kicker” is wired in correctly? Same-same if your downriggers are wired correctly? Only “one” battery in use - at “one” time! If it is rigged like that, if you have #2 selected it should be running the entire boat and all electronics and equipment! And, the kicker should also be charging “the” selected battery just like your main? The only exception to this… if you don’t have a “hot” bus, you want your bilge pump wired as not to be able to turn off?

The reason for all the question marks? There are so many out there wiring and adding things to boats - you never know how it is wired! [:0]

quote: If I understand Charlie correctly, it will take twice as long to charge the batteries if I have the switch in the "BOTH" position. I think I recall reading somewhere on the net that you should not be using the "BOTH" position anyway. Is there a way to set it up that once one battery is fully charged, the second battery then starts being charged?

Sorry for the ignorance, but I'm just unclear on the subject.

Yep… on the “BOTH” position, you are dividing your charging amps between two batteries, usually not a good thing.

There are switches made to automatically transfer charging amps from one battery to the other, but if I were you… save your money! If your boat is rigged as above, it is not needed!

Don’t worry about the ignorance thing! I would much rather spend the time answering questions here, than having to throw someone a line 25 miles offshore and towing them in 15-20 foot swells. [^]

 

[NewMoon]

I fish a good bit with my kicker, but I'm a cruiser, often going several days or even weeks between opportunities to hook into shore power. I have no generator. So a reliable battery system is a must.

My setup is much like Charlie's, and it works great. Never had a problem starting in maybe 1,100 days on the water. I switch to the starting battery bank to crank my diesel main engine, leave it that way long enough (10 minutes?) to be sure the start batts are recharged, then switch back to the house bank (through BOTH, not through OFF). I'm always on the house bank unless starting the main engine or just after doing so. Simple.

Just like the main, the kicker also charges whatever batteries I'm switched to. I never use BOTH, except in the rare backup situation where the starter bank needs a little help from the house bank to crank the diesel.

If anyone wants a wiring diagram, I could send mine to your email.

Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)
"Cruising in a Big Way"

 

[Charlie]

Of forgot!

If you are running a factory “Kicker” (unmodified) that says Yamaha, Honda, or Mercury and it has 9.9 “anything” on it - the alternator output @ W.O.T. is going to be 6 AMPS… please note that is at W.O.T. – NOT half-throttle while trolling, or at an idle!

If any 9.9 “High Thrust kicker” is producing more AMPS and doing a better job charging than the “main”… there is a problem there! For that to happen the main would be producing the equivalent AMPS of about of an 8 HP Mercury?

I am all for (multi-engines) each having their own battery switch - two engines, two switches - three engines, three switches… However, I am not a fan of someone just adding a “Battery Isolator (also known as a “split charge relay”)! That design is to protect your “engine starting battery” from being rundown – when the engine is “off”! It works good until the isolator goes out, your engines aren’t running, and one of the drained battery pulls from the rest… very well could end up with “ALL” dead batteries and “no” shore power! “Been there” – to the tune of about $1,000 for the battery replacements! I would also never recommend wiring one engine to charge two “separated” battery systems, unless the person is a “bona fide” marine electrician, or really knows what they were doing! And, I certainly hope whoever does “any” wiring on alternators, batteries, and isolators are aware of the “sense” wires and insure they are right? You can create drainage or overcharging conditions to the batteries – in a heartbeat! That will only come up at the most inopportune time! Yep, that is the rest of my “Done that”!

I would be more worried about the ACR relay failing, than ever the position of my battery switches? That would be the whole “Been there – Done that”! The ACR mentioned, actually parallels (combines) the batteries to charge them as a “bank”. Again, you are using one engine to charge two batteries, if both batteries are drained, just a little – both batteries be charging and still equates to twice the charging time to get both “completely” charged! An ACR by design, is to allow two batteries, “to be connected so that they can share the output of a single charge source, allowing the user to charge more battery banks than the number of charging outputs.” I again hope the “sense” wires are correct? Since an ARC is being used if, “the voltage drops to 12.75 it disconnects isolating the batteries”, that “would” be a good thing, but isn’t the “KISS” principle easier? If the batteries are wired correctly all you have to do is remember run the battery switch on either #1 or #2 – never “both”! And, then "never" worry about a relay faulure and overcharging or draining all the batteries?

Just some thoughts!

 

[juandesooka]

Very informative posts, thanks to you all. The electronics hook up gets complicated and slightly mind boggling.

A tip from one who never quite trusts the quality of his batteries or the system being properly designed and implemented...

$50 at Canadian Tire gets one of those portable chargers, basically a battery with jumper cables on it. When all else fails, and you're dead in the water, it's a good feeling to know you have that in your back pocket ... connect up that bad boy and get home. Been there, done that!

 

[Gomesy]

I too carry one of thosebattery packs and it's makes me feel a little more confident out there.

I think I see what the problem was with my previous battery system. First I did not use my switch properly as many times when I noticed one battery drained I would put the switch on BOTH.

Is a "BUS" like a fuse box?

I have 5 or 6 wires attached to one of my battery's Negative posts and a negative wire connecting the 2 batteries, then one positive wire from the switch to each battery. All the electronics go to a long thin thing that has multiple metal tabs on it. I think that is the BUS. Does that sound right?

I have a feeling that my hook up should be much simpler. And the only thing attached to the batteries should be the wires from the switch, right?[?]

I like it,
I love it,
I want some more of it!

 

[NewMoon]

A bus is just a solidly-mounted connector strip with several posts on it. Much better than having a bunch of wires hooked up to a battery post.

The battery negative posts should be connected to a bus, and the positive posts should be connected the 1-both-2-off switch.

Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)
"Cruising in a Big Way"

 

[profisher]

Your negative should have the negative engine wires and the main ground cable which goes to your negative bus. (terminal block) Positive should only have the main positives to the switch, with the exception of a direct connection to you auto bilge pump. You should have one main positive cable that goes from switch to your fuse block/terminal. All your accessories should be individually connected into your fuse panel. I have my electric downriggers on individual and waterproof blade fuse holders (and on as short a length of cable back to the main switch). Also 12 guage wire, gives you as fast a retrieval speed as possible on your riggers.