Hunters Call To Arms!

I would love a change of government. I'm just not enthused about trading people I don't trust, for people I don't trust and with whom I disagree on a fundamental level about the organization of society.

If a new party starts up that replaces the Liberals on the right wing of the political spectrum, I'll be all ears. I'm not switching fundamental ideologies just to replace them, though.
 
get rid of parties and go with a conses-based governance system. It's the only way IMHO...
 
get rid of parties and go with a conses-based governance system. It's the only way IMHO...
That would be a tough nut to crack but the way I see it we could start with a ban on corporate and union donations. It seems that the only ones that get to input policy here are the ones that can pay for it through donations to the party of choice. Pay to play, and that is something that the current government seems to take to great heights.
 
For me it's simple. If you want to see the continued privatization of our wildlife, natural resources, parks, fisheries, and just about anything the Liberals can sell off or access to, vote Liberal. The wounds of what they pulled off with GOABC still run deep in my mind. And the pictures of them partying it up at there annual pay to play fundraisers go along way in making my mind up for who not to vote for.
Here's a few letters I saved from people who were pretty passionate on the GOABC allocation issue. Hope people haven't already forgotten what they pulled off there...



here are a couple letters responding to the premier's latest form letter.
just to show how passionate most members of the hunting community are about this overly rich and skewed allocation issue.


Thank-you for your prompt response. I am extremely disappointed in your stance on this issue you have grossly underestimated the importance of what you are trying to do here by going against the core values of our nation and our province. Sir Wilfred Laurier and Theodore Roosevelt formed an agreement 150 years ago to end commercial hunting on the backs of residents who wished to harvest organic game meat and who own the resources. WAC Bennett enshrined the resources of BC to the people of BC while promoting free enterprise as a founding principal which served us so well and built British Columbia, he must be rolling in his grave right now.

You say you have been working for 10 years on negotiations, why? There was an agreement with the GOABC and WCWF on this issue in 2007. It was never implemented by your government. Instead you take sizeable donations from the GOABC from that time forward, year by year, they log over 2000 private meetings with you and you completely ignored the BCWF the oldest conservation entity in our province, one of the most highly regarded associations in Canada. Now you say you want to work closely with them, really?

This allocation policy that you have crafted with the GOABC goes way against the norm of the standards in any other jurisdiction. The numbers don’t lie especially when they aren’t cherry picked. The percentages of allocation to this small group of businesses is over twice the going rate for similar jurisdictions on this continent. The BCWF is asking for less than the average for residents, a 90%-10% split and your are ready to give the GOABC up to a 40% split in some species. The average % by species much more than doubling the norm in north America other than the Territories with very small populations.

You seem dug in so we will dig in as well. We will be doing everything we can in a respectful and courteous manner to make all the citizens of BC, and hunters across Canada and indeed the world aware of this stolen allocation policy. You have lost a core supporter of the BC Liberal party here and I will be actively campaigning against the BC Liberal party from this time forward. It is that important. You are trying to change the fabric of our moral being in BC, you are concentrating on money only turning your back on our history and future for the families of BC and you and your party must go.

I sincerely hope you change your stance on this so that I and my friends and family could consider supporting you again but I won’t hold my breath on the former, I’d be delighted to be wrong on that.

Yours in conservation;


and another...

Premier Clark, Mr Thomson and all Liberal MLA's,



I'm writing to tell you just how disappointed I am in our Premier, Mr. Thomson and pretty much all
the Liberal MLA's that were in Question period Monday afternoon.


I, along with close to 1000 BC residents took time off of work and traveled to Victoria from all over the province to voice our ongoing concerns with the wildlife allocation policy. We traveled from Cranbrook, Prince George, Kamloops, Kelowna, Campbell River, the peace country and from many more corners of the province to be there on a day the house was sitting.


Some people spent 20 hours on a bus to be there, yet knowing we were coming Ms. Clark didn't think this warranted her showing up for question period to defend the allocation policy. What does this tell us other than she feels the policy is indefensible or she simply doesn't care about the many tens of thousands of people who are impacted by the seemingly very close relationship between her and the GOABC and the flawed allocation policy.


I'm disappointed in Mr. Thomson and his replies to the questions asked to him as I sat in the gallery left in utter disbelief at his contempt for the people on the stairs and lawn outside. He simply regurgitated the same tired, old and inaccurate “60 animals” affected line. Well, we all, the government included, know that 60 is not the number of animals and that it is much higher. It also doesn't include the opportunities to go hunting, even unsuccessfully, for those animals. Calculations show the annual allowable harvest for stones sheep in 7B alone at 250. Under the 2007 agreement nonresident share was 20% or 50 rams. After Mr. Thomson's recent decision it sits at 40% or 100 rams. This uses up 50 of the “60 animals.” Do I have something wrong here?


If it's fully believed only 60 animals come into play then why not, for the peace and harmony it will bring, go back to the numbers agreed to in 2007 and signed by all parties at the table. Not that I believe that after the damaging last few weeks that resident hunters would now be satisfied with those numbers.


Looking beyond the smoke and mirrors we are presented with there is a perception that GOABC donations to the party are being payed back with not only more animals but tens of thousands dollars in “tourism grants”. This surely gives us cause for concern as to how even the playing field is.


Now to the Liberal MLA's in session on Monday when I was there. You should be ashamed of yourselves for pounding on your desks so loud and proud in support for a policy I'm sure many of you would have a hard time supporting in a private conversation. To me it felt like every pound on the desk was a slap in my face. This policy and the tactics that saw it come to be are probably the exact reason you got into politics to prevent in the first place. At least I hope it would be.


It's not too late to redo the allocation policy and put BC resident Hunters ahead of non-resident hunters and outfit owners, many of which are not BC residents. I ask you to go to the 90/10 split now asked for by the resident hunters of BC and the BCWF.


A very frustrated voter,
 
and another


I urge all BC residents to seek out and understand the real issues facing our great province and the privatization of our wildlife and the lands they live on. This is not the rant of a hunter, this is a plea to all those who care about our most precious resource to make a stand against the Liberal Government and the Guide Outfitters of BC (GOABC) and tell them that our wildlife is not for sale and never will be. Here are a few things you should know and I urge Castanet and all who doubt it to do their own research.
· Why is it that Mr. Thompson and Mr. Ellis time and time again state that these allocations are only a very small percentage of the “animals we currently hunt” or “total hunting opportunities”. Sure that’s fine if we all want to simply hunt deer, black bear and grouse. What they are leaving out is that it has large impacts to our opportunities to hunt other species such as moose, elk, sheep, goat, etc., where available opportunities are very limited and are only by lottery or a very expensive trip to the far north. Thompson and Ellis do this purposefully to dilute the issue…to give us the impression that the change is so minute it shouldn’t even be an issue.

· Thompson states that BC residents are still getting the priority. This is true and holds true even if the allocations were 51% resident to 49% non-resident. The use of the word “priority” in this case is grossly misused. In all of North America, the allocation to non-resident hunters is between 5%-10% maximum and yet, this latest policy change (and even the 2007 one referred) sees a proportionate for non-residents from 25-40% for many of these species noted. So in reality, we are fighting for much more than the 2007 allocations…we should be overhauling the whole system.

· There are over 100,000 resident hunters in BC (over 20% increase in the last decade) vs. 4,500 non-resident hunters (steadily declining over the last decade). Why then would be increase opportunities for non-residents and reduce them for residents…this logic is flawed on its most basic level. Furthermore, I think someone needs to take a closer look at the revenue projections identified for resident hunters vs. non-residents. To suggest that we only produce 2x that of non-residents is ludicrous and I suspect we are not comparing apples to apples. The article suggests that and I quote Mr. Ellis "They use airlines, buy food, buy supplies, bullets, eat in restaurants, stay in hotels. Outfitters employ staff, buy quads, pay taxes – these are local guys, and the money stays in the community." Are we applying the same expenses to residents who pay for flights, food, fuel, hotels, quads, trucks, travel trailers, boats, etc? If we are comparing like for like, I suspect that much like the 100,000 vs. 4,500 ratio (20x) I suspect the revenue introduced into the economy is 20 fold as well. Further, I’d like to know how many of the 230 guide outfitters are actually full-time residents of BC. I know the general BC public would be quite surprised.

· The BCWF and its members contribute over 300,000 volunteer hours to support our wildlife and the environments in which we live. I’d like to know how much the GOABC gives back and what value the government places on this. Additionally, a percentage of every licence and tag purchased goes directly towards wildlife management. 100,000 resident hunters contribute far more dollars to the cause then that 4,500 non-residents.

· Perhaps this is simply a change in the times. Guide Outfitters that understand their business and are outstanding at their craft will continue to survive. They will be innovators and be creative with opportunities to draw in business. Handouts are not the answer and never have been…especially when it is at the expense of the other. Mr. Ellis argues that guide outfitting has a long-standing tradition in our history but I can assure you…hunting for oneself and his/her family is as old as our time on this planet.

· Lastly, political campaign contributions are public record. I'd like Castanet to publish the contributions that GOABC, Mr. Ellis and other representatives of the GOABC provided to the Liberal Party during the last election. It is hundreds of thousands of dollars and all of it is public information if a reporter were so inclined to find the TRUTH. This from the same group who advocated that their members are going broke across the province.
The GOABC is also lobbying government to restrict access to resident hunters in certain areas but these same areas are allowed access by outfitters. There is far more to this story than the government wants you to know about and they trivialize it and us with their statements.
Money talks and I think you will see that GOABC and the Liberal Government have spoken loud and clear that our province's resources ARE for sale.


hey, why not one more if you've read this far....


Just a quick comment.

I'm sure someone will come on here and explain the numbers to you. I can tell you they are alot more than the 60 animals GOABC and Thompson keep

spewing. They want you to think 60 animals as it seems like a really small number and people will think it's not worth bothering about. those 60

tags are actually on top of the tags given out in the 2007 agreement, not that that is very important. The important thing to remember it's not

so much about the numbers as it is about the percentages and high value quality species. let me explain, the trend over the

years has been to go from GOS (general open season) to LEH (limited entry hunting) and this trend will most likely continue to do

so into the future as populations expand and wilderness shrinks.. this is why GOABC is hell bent on getting the largest percentages available (20

to 40% depending on species) into LEGISLATION. (the north american standard is 5 to 10% allocated to non residents) once legislated these

percentages will be there forever and be very difficult to remove without court challenges. the more areas that go from GOS to LEH in the future,

the more animals and quality hunts they the guides have to gain and the more we the residents have to lose. they will do everything in their

power as has been shown (through government manipulation ie "donations") to get the largest allocation possible legislated so it can't be changed

easily if at all, then they will lobby to have the GOS's (general open seasons) shutdown or reduced and eventually strive to have everything for

resident hunters on an LEH system. they will also fight to have decreased access for resident hunters to our crown lands. they will lobby for

shorter hunting seasons for resident hunters. this has been brought up in their plans and they have always allocated for

LEH to control the amount of hunters in their guiding territories. (our public crown lands.) at that point you have .3 % (yes, less than 1%) of

the hunters (the Guide Outfitters's) in BC in control or basicaly owning 25 to 40 % of the wildlife in this province. not a bad trade-off for

their lobbying "donations" and photo-ops with the liberal party. not so good for our sons and daughters, and their sons and daughters.... unless

your dads a GO of course.

essentially they will have privatized our wildlife. and the fact that many of these interests are foreign owned make it even more unbelievable in

a democratic society!

this is also why a 90-10 split would be so much fairer. so much simpler. especially for the welfare of the wildlife. but the GOABC, Thompson, and

the politicians wouldn't be able to perform or play their magic numbers game as easily.

and to say that this fight is over 60 animals as Thompson would have you believe is not

only condescending it is an affront to the intelligence of every resident of BC.

this fight is a fight all british columbians have an interest in as it is a fight against the wholesale privatization of our heritage, our

hunting, our fishing, and even our basic access to our own crown lands.

so we as hunters haven't a problem with legislating a split, but not a 25% to 40% split (depending on species) of our most high value most sought

after wildlife.

a 90-10 split which is inline and even slightly above north american standards.



(these links below have been taken down... wonder why? Not the only damning links I've noticed that have disappeared over this issue. Quite a few actually...)

http://www.leg.bc.ca/.../video/QuestionPeriod3_2_2015_05.mp4

http://contributions.electionsbc.gov.bc.ca/.../SA1SearchR...
 
"Hunters will no longer be able to possess the hide or the head or the paws of the grizzly bear."

It's not yet clear what hunters will be expected to do with those bear parts, but they would not be leaving the province, he said.


https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2017FLNR0232-001442

What an absolute CROCK!

I simply cannot wait for the Idjuts currently at the controls to get the effing BOOT!!
angry3.gif


Ticked,
Nog
 
I'm with you IronNoggin

Simply management by feelings, not science. I do have a fall bear tag and will be spending a month or until I get a fall grizz. I also believe this is the start, hunting lifestyle as we know it will end with the traitor NDP and Greens, but our children will remember when they are paying the tax for this Govn.

Pissed and upset.

HM
 
If you didn't vote for the Liberals this is your fault.

Grizzly hunts are big business and a Liberal government is all about business. Now we've got the NDP trying to make every bleeding heart and artist happy by mortgaging our future and the future of our children. They will bankrupt this province and give everything to any special interest group that has their hand out.
 
It's interesting when you look at the last elections results and see the urban vs rural split. The NDP/ Greens power base is primarily (note, primarily)in the Lower Mainland and the Island, while the Liberals hold the more rural areas.
 
I would sit back and laugh if it wasn't so pathetically sad how inept the NDP/Greenies are. The most dangerous animal is an uninformed voter. Too bad most of them voted for the socialist hoards.
 
One thing that the green people do not know a grizzly bear will track a moose for days to eat it and the moose we see the numbers going down now,when I worked in king come inlet we seen a black bear the next ed truck coming 5 minutes later , there were pieces of black bear all over the place,all I can say if you live in the sticks have a gun ready ,give it about 5 years than they will see
 
After this season arnt you still allowed to hunt them if your going to eat them?

And leave the hide, head, paws and skull back in the bush. This is what they have already noted.

Given the next note regarding "consultation" with FN's" on how to proceed, just how long do you think it will be before FN's are the ONLY ones who can hunt "ceremonially"??

Completely obtuse, immoral, and running directly contrary to all thought of scientific management. :mad:

Nog
 
And leave the hide, head, paws and skull back in the bush. This is what they have already noted.

Given the next note regarding "consultation" with FN's" on how to proceed, just how long do you think it will be before FN's are the ONLY ones who can hunt "ceremonially"??

Completely obtuse, immoral, and running directly contrary to all thought of scientific management. :mad:

Nog

When you say ceremonial do you mean high dollar guided trips for foreigners?
 
Statement from BCWF on today's news

RESPONSE TO GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCEMENT TO END GRIZZLY TROPHY HUNT

The provincial government announced today that they will end grizzly bear trophy hunting throughout the province and stop all hunting of grizzlies in the Great Bear Rainforest.

The BC Wildlife Federation supports sustainable hunting in British Columbia under conditions consistent with the North American Wildlife Conservation Model. One of the tenets of the model is non-frivolous use, which allows hunting under only strict guidelines for food, and fur. This tenet prohibits the killing of wildlife merely for antlers, horns, or feathers.

The BC Wildlife Federation has and continues to support changes to the Wildlife Act which would require all edible portions of grizzly bears are used. In Europe, brown bear meat is considered quality table fare. Grizzly bear diet is similar to that of black bears; black bears have long been considered quality table fare in BC.

President of the BCWF Harvey Andrusak said, “It is positive that the government is maintaining the hunt for meat. We will represent our members’ interests as the government consults us on the practical details of this ban.“

Media is reporting that the province has said they will forbid a hunter from possessing the paws, head, and hide of a grizzly.This is inconsistent with conditions in the North American Wildlife Conservation Model. Leaving the hide and skull undermines the collection of scientific data used to manage grizzly bears. Currently those parts are used to age and sex the animals harvested, providing critical data to scientists which is the basis for any decisions about grizzly harvest.

The BCWF believes that we should be using as much of any wildlife taken as possible and will be advocating with government to maintain the interests of our members. Hunting is a very small part of grizzly bear mortality.

The BC Wildlife Federation will continue to support recovery efforts for grizzly bears in areas where populations are under threat and to advocate for increased funding and science for wildlife management in BC.
 
Pro Hunt FN Response:

Wildlife_Stewardship_Council_re_Grizzly.jpg

Possible fracturing in the NDP / Green Ranks (which incidentally I would be ALL FOR!!)

Weaver said in a statement that the new ban is also viewed as wasteful by the resident hunting community because the hair, head and hide of the grizzlies can no longer be used.

“I'm not sure how this will appease the concerns of anyone. It appears to me that the NDP was trying to play to environmental voters in the election campaign without thinking through their policies,” Weaver said.

http://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/m...ear-trophy-hunt-beginning-this-fall-1.3545573

And of course there is the direct admission that the hunt is completely sustainable, and well within the bounds of proper scientific management.
"It's not a matter of numbers, it's a matter of society has come to the point in B.C. where they are no longer in favour of the grizzly bear trophy hunt."
So now we are to abandon science and manage wildlife according to emotion from the city masses?? Really??
Idunno.gif


I very much hope that in the future ALL problem Grizz are immediately relocated to the lower mainland / Victoria. Surely if the hunt "is not a socially acceptable practice" then those that voted these Idjuts in will find a way, as a "society", to deal with them in an alternative, friendly fashion...
wink.gif


Sadly,
Nog
 
Weaver's Splintering Stance:

Today the BC NDP claimed to set the stage for banning trophy hunting of grizzly bears in British Columbia. In what can only be described as a political stunt, the BC NDP announced that “effective Nov. 30, 2017, the British Columbia government will end grizzly bear trophy hunting throughout the province.” They further proclaimed “while the trophy hunt will end, hunting for meat will be allowed to continue.”

In response to their announcement I issued a statement, reproduced below.

As you will see, I am very supportive of the fact that the B.C. NDP are respecting the wishes of the Coastal First Nations by placing a moratorium on the hunting of grizzlies in the Great Bear Rainforest. Readers of this website will know that I called for this back in February, 2014 (3 1/2 years ago). However, during the election campaign I pointed out that the B.C. NDP appeared to be trying to have their cake and eat it too when it came to the grizzly hunt. They told the hunting community one thing and the environmental community another.

Today’s announcement will not end grizzly bear hunting in B.C., as many environmental groups have advocated for.

In addition, this announcement will create a system in which not all of the animal will be harvested – resident hunters will no longer be allowed to possess the hair, head and hide of grizzlies. This will be viewed as wasteful by the resident hunting community.

Foreign hunters will still be able to shoot grizzlies in British Columbia, take a picture of themselves standing over the dead beast, and head back home without harvesting any of the animal.

What’s remarkable is that when I introduced legislation in the Spring of 2017 targeted at foreign trophy hunters the BC NDP voted against it. Now, they introduce a mishmash approach that makes little sense.

I’m not sure how this will appease the concerns of anyone. It appears to me that the NDP were trying to play to environmental voters in the election campaign without thinking through their policies. What we really need in BC is science-based approach to wildlife management, not a populist approach to species management.

http://www.andrewweavermla.ca/2017/...g-tale-governments-inept-grizzly-bear-policy/

Nog
 
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