triplenickel
Well-Known Member
I joke with buddies that come hunting season I'm just going to use an apple and a hammer in the back yard. Lol
Hunters Call To Arms!
- Thread starter IronNoggin
- Start date
I joke with buddies that come hunting season I'm just going to use an apple and a hammer in the back yard. Lol
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
It appears a few of us from Port will be wandering down.
Hope to see a few more of us on site!!
Cheers,
Nog
Hope to see a few more of us on site!!
Cheers,
Nog
tincan
Well-Known Member
Has anyone seen this new doc called "The Grizzly Truth"? I have not yet but do plan to watch it next week at some point
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/thegrizzlytruth
Based on the trailer is seems to address a lot of the issues surrounding the grizzly bear hunt in BC so should be worthwhile viewing for open minds on either side of the issue.
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/thegrizzlytruth
Based on the trailer is seems to address a lot of the issues surrounding the grizzly bear hunt in BC so should be worthwhile viewing for open minds on either side of the issue.
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
I find the results of that poll a little surprising. Before I would consider the results of the poll even semi valid I would have to see how the poll question was worded. Considering the poll was paid for by the Commercial Bear Viewing Association, I have a suspicion the question was carefully crafted to get the kind of poll results they were paying for to support their businesses. Many polls are designed with ambiguous or slanted wording to get a high percentage of respondents to vote the way the organization paying for the poll desires. Many polls are not worded in a straightforward or concise manner. For me to take this polls results as valid I would have to see exactly how the question was worded. Any polls results can be skewed simply by the way the question is framed. I'm not saying that was the case here, but that is often the way organizations with an agenda to push get the results they want. They often tailor the poll question in their favor, to claim they have a higher degree of support than they really have. I don't know if that was the case with this poll, but I am a little skeptical of the results.NOT MY OPINION but here's an article copied from castanets news service about this topic:
No divide on grizzly hunt
Photo: The Canadian Press
David Wylie - Mar 30 10:23 am
A new poll finds most rural British Columbians oppose the trophy hunting of grizzly bears.
The telephone poll conducted in January by Insights West found 74 per cent of voters "in five rural ridings with strong hunting traditions are opposed to the trophy grizzly hunt."
"This poll categorically shows that there is no urban-rural divide on the issue of grizzly trophy hunting, something that has been asserted endlessly by politicians," says Julius Strauss of the Commercial Bear Viewing Association.
"British Columbians want an end to trophy hunting by a clear majority, even in deeply rural ridings with strong hunting traditions. It's time government policy reflected that reality."
Those who oppose trophy hunting of grizzly bears stands at 81 per cent in Kamloops North Thompson, 79 per cent in Boundary Similkameen, 78 per cent in Fraser Nicola, 66 per cent in Cariboo North and 65 per cent in Kootenay East.
"Few voters who cast a ballot for either of the two major provincial parties in 2013 are satisfied with the status quo on grizzly trophy hunting," says Mario Canseco, vice-president, public affairs at Insights West. "Voicing support for the current state of affairs is not bound to be a winner with voters at their doorstep."
The poll conducted on behalf of the Commercial Bear Viewing Association conducted from Jan. 24 to Jan. 31 has a margin of error of +/- 4.9 percentage points.
AGAIN NOT MY OPINION just an interesting article.
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Pippen
Well-Known Member
Not me.....won't pay money to see it and support his mission to buy up guide territories.
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Hugger Propaganda disguised as "informational".
Sorry - I personally know of couple of the contributors.
And from that, I can cite the story line without ever seeing it.
Suggest if you do watch it, keep in mind exactly where these anti's are coming from...
Already been picked apart very well by a couple of internet sleuths on the Hunting Forum.
Not only were the questions biased towards a predictable outcome, the target audience was as well.
Not worth the paper the results are written on.
Cheers,
Nog
tincan
Well-Known Member
thx. I do try to keep sources in mind when reading/watching this sort of stuff. Definitely a 'follow the money' cynical SOB in that regard.
that said, there were "anti's" who tried to warn the world about the decline of a lot of other species (rhino, elephant, mountain gorilla, etc) and about a lot of other issues (harmful effects of smoking; climate change, etc) and they were brushed aside as 'radicals' only to be proven right about their concerns. On the grizzly topic specifically, I hear from outfitters and BCWF people that the BC populations (and the hunt) are sustainable and I hear from groups like Grizzly Bear Foundation and Pacific Wild that the hunt is contributing factor to the BC Grizzly Bear demise. If you ask me which of these groups stand to gain the most financially from allowing a hunt I think the answer is quite clear.
I am personally against the hunt of any animal large or small, cute or ugly, that will negatively effect ecosystems or will jeopardize sustainable populations of that species. That is the 1st criteria for me in taking a side on these issues... conservation and sustainability. Next, I do draw a line between the hunting of different animals. For me there is a moral difference between squashing a mosquito and shooting a rhino and I don't buy the argument that if someone is against hunting one animal they need to be against hunting all animals. We have learned that there are animals with incredible intelligence, family bonds, emotions, etc and to try to equate those species to a mosquito is a false equivalency.
Lastly, please do not kid yourself and try to convince others that the reason you hunt grizzlies is the same reason you catch salmon. I know a lot of hunters, many of whom support / take part in bear hunting and subsistence is not the reason they do it. Yes, there will be the very odd off-grid remote living hunter who may need to and does eat bear meat but the exception does not make the rule. The vast majority of grizzly hunters are doing it for reasons other than food. If you are a grizzly hunter or supporter at least have the balls to admit that. There are many who do admit it...however, far too many who hide behind the argument of 'just trying to put food on the table'.
that said, there were "anti's" who tried to warn the world about the decline of a lot of other species (rhino, elephant, mountain gorilla, etc) and about a lot of other issues (harmful effects of smoking; climate change, etc) and they were brushed aside as 'radicals' only to be proven right about their concerns. On the grizzly topic specifically, I hear from outfitters and BCWF people that the BC populations (and the hunt) are sustainable and I hear from groups like Grizzly Bear Foundation and Pacific Wild that the hunt is contributing factor to the BC Grizzly Bear demise. If you ask me which of these groups stand to gain the most financially from allowing a hunt I think the answer is quite clear.
I am personally against the hunt of any animal large or small, cute or ugly, that will negatively effect ecosystems or will jeopardize sustainable populations of that species. That is the 1st criteria for me in taking a side on these issues... conservation and sustainability. Next, I do draw a line between the hunting of different animals. For me there is a moral difference between squashing a mosquito and shooting a rhino and I don't buy the argument that if someone is against hunting one animal they need to be against hunting all animals. We have learned that there are animals with incredible intelligence, family bonds, emotions, etc and to try to equate those species to a mosquito is a false equivalency.
Lastly, please do not kid yourself and try to convince others that the reason you hunt grizzlies is the same reason you catch salmon. I know a lot of hunters, many of whom support / take part in bear hunting and subsistence is not the reason they do it. Yes, there will be the very odd off-grid remote living hunter who may need to and does eat bear meat but the exception does not make the rule. The vast majority of grizzly hunters are doing it for reasons other than food. If you are a grizzly hunter or supporter at least have the balls to admit that. There are many who do admit it...however, far too many who hide behind the argument of 'just trying to put food on the table'.
Hugger Propaganda disguised as "informational".
Sorry - I personally know of couple of the contributors.
And from that, I can cite the story line without ever seeing it.
Suggest if you do watch it, keep in mind exactly where these anti's are coming from...
Good post, Tincan. I have similar feelings. I have eaten black bear sausage mixed with moose - and I liked it. I really doubt if anyone goes grizzly hunting to make bear sausages. It's the "trophy" that's the focus - bragging rights - and a stuffed head/pelt as evidence - and as a perk to begin the bragging. I was raised to *NOT* do that. I was raised to eat what you shoot (exception: self defense of you or your livestock/house). I don't think it is neither respectful nor necessary to trophy hunt. My ego doesn't need that boost. I don't understand why anyone would. If the excuse is "making money" - it seems bear viewing generates more income. If there are issues with overpopulation and some form of population/habitat control - different issue, again.
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Have a good look at what those paid specifically to manage this population have to say.
The biologists, not the politico's. The population is increasing, the harvest represents ~ 2% when it is recognized that 6% would be easily sustainable. Check this for yourself if you question what I am saying...
In the case of Pacific Wild, GB Foundation and their allies (PETA, HSUS, etc) economics generated by hunting simply does not enter the picture. These are largely focused upon procuring finances to support their own agendas - that largely focused on deceiving more and more uninformed folks into donating to their war chests, to dispose of as wages for their own, and anti use campaigns such as the one before us now. Their focus is to end all hunting, one step at a time. Their focus regarding finances is simply to support that goal, regardless of how that is achieved. Also not at all difficult to determine should you choose to look.
And that is the correct basis for proper management. Regarding what followed: Please try to refrain from the over-used anthropomorphic argument. It is baseless, and demeaning to your position.
I am not a bear hunter, although I have killed a handful in defense situations (including grizzlies). I have worked alongside and with these animals a very long period of time (starting as a Bear Response Team Member for the 4 Mountain national Parks). And as such, I consider myself rather well informed on their management and issues that are related.
The biologists who manage this species could care less what the motivation of the hunter is. The bear the same. Again, as noted previously, the object of the lesson is Balance. With an increasing population (this is understood in the world of Science, whilst perhaps not so much in the La-La Land of the anti's) management must occur. That can be achieved through regulated hunting, or professional government guns. Regardless, it MUST occur. Without that we face increasingly heavy impacts on ungulate populations, increasing competition amongst the bears themselves (most notably older boars killing cubs and yearlings), and increasing negative encounters with humans. None of which are desirable.
The bottom line here is Management should be always conducted via Science, NOT sentiment.
To suggest anything else lumps you right in with those who simply do not understand how nature works, our role in that, and what proper management is all about. Really.
Cheers,
Nog
Thanks for your post, Nog. I agree with quite a bit of it - esp. the perspective of PETA and similar organizations (e.g. Sea Shepherd Society) and how they lie and manipulate to achieve a political and financial agenda. It's disrespectful.
Having said that - I don't believe trophy hunting is respectful neither - and as far as I can see - not necessary. Hunting for food - absolutely! I think we should always try to be respectful - and that is very much a valid cultural value - and encompasses management too (or should).
Having said that - I don't believe trophy hunting is respectful neither - and as far as I can see - not necessary. Hunting for food - absolutely! I think we should always try to be respectful - and that is very much a valid cultural value - and encompasses management too (or should).
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Bows Up
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I am wrong but given declining numbers of resident grizzly hunters isn't trophy hunting simply a management tool that happens to put a few bucks into the economy. Ban trophy hunting and our tax dollars will end up paying someone to hunt them in order to manage their numbers. I'm a hunter but have no interest in grizzly hunting as I don't want to eat one.
Sadly since we screwed everything up, we have to manage everything from elk harvests on the Island to the grizzly population. Political popularity and scientific fish and game management do not go hand in hand. Leaders need brass balls or ovaries and that is in short supply. They act according to which way the wind (polls) blow.
Sadly since we screwed everything up, we have to manage everything from elk harvests on the Island to the grizzly population. Political popularity and scientific fish and game management do not go hand in hand. Leaders need brass balls or ovaries and that is in short supply. They act according to which way the wind (polls) blow.
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Like I said - If the excuse is "making money" - it seems bear viewing generates more income/tax. As for the "science" - do we really need to do a grizzly cull?
We institute cultural values into our resource management all the time. We could simply dynamite and snag fish - it'd be a more effective way of getting fish. Why don't we?
We institute cultural values into our resource management all the time. We could simply dynamite and snag fish - it'd be a more effective way of getting fish. Why don't we?
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Sadly we stretch nets across the spawning rivers which is IMHO the same as using CIL Wobblers.
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
As I suggested above, the management team could care less what the mindset of the hunter is, or what the end use of the bear is. If it is eliminated, the management target has been met. Balance restored / maintained.
Nature cares only in that she will assure nothing is wasted, regardless of the end disposition of the bear - and, that something of a Balance is one step closer to being maintained.
In nature, nothing dies a "peaceful death". All are scheduled for a meeting with mortality that is far removed from that description. A bullet is likely less cruel than starvation, disease, or being killed by another regardless of whether that is your own species or another.
Managing large predators is a complicated process. Something best left to professionals who understand what they are doing.Upon inspection you will discover that the vast majority continuously correct / tweak / advance their programs in order to best benefit the population in question. I saw the dated links you posted, at least one of which can be severely questioned due to authorship. I'd strongly suggest you have a look at the latest, then get back to me regarding the "necessity" of managing grizzly populations in BC. :
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/grizzly-bear-harvest-management-2016.pdf
"Trophy" is a damn tough word to define, and as a consequence, it is a "Darling" of the anti hunting movement. It allows them to overtly suggest that most, if not all so called trophy hunters do so solely for the bragging rights, and take the head home, if anything, afterwards. Complete Hogwash. They know it, and so do the hunters. BUT it is a good sensationalist ploy. Such bleatings play well to those who grew up with a tad too much Disney and little else exposure to the real world. And that equals dollars in the coffers.
I can understand the mindset that harvesting a bear and leaving it's musculature behind is troubling.
Rest assured, to those that benefit by that leaving (as many animals from microbes to predator will) carry no such sentiment.
That said, far more bear hunters take the meat home that don't in BC. And they, themselves, were the first to step up and suggest it become Mandatory for all who engage in that pursuit. Including Grizzlies.
Almost all hunting is a tool of management that puts dollars both back into government coffers, and the general economy.
Most definitely!! Either someone pays for the "privilege", or WE Pay Them to do it instead.
No Truer Words...
Most believe "we" manage scientifically. In today's world, unfortunately that is far too often removed from reality. Yes, to some extent science plays a role - somewhere near the back of the bus of the latest politico running it...
Cheers,
Nog
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
As I stated I am not personally in favor of trophy killing, (whether that is fish or game). In the case of predatory species such as bears or wolves though I also understand that populations must be managed to maintain balance. I personally do not believe in trophy killing, as I have always been taught if you kill it you must eat it. However, I also feel it makes more sense to allow limited managed trophy hunting, rather than have the government (taxpayers) pay to cull out of balance populations. No matter what your feelings are in regards to trophy hunting, if you hunt or fish you should be very concerned about the anti forces pushing their agenda. The anti grizzly hunting campaign is only the thin edge of the wedge. Their long term goal is to stop all hunting. Once they've accomplished that goal they will be moving full bore onto their anti sport fishing agenda. Groups like PETA and others collect and spend vast amounts of money to further that agenda. Don't stick your head in the sand thinking, oh well it's only about banning trophy hunting, so who cares. You should care if your lifestyle includes hunting or fishing because they're coming after your pastimes next. These groups make huge money by manipulating the bleeding hearts for donations, and they aren't going to stop until all forms of sport harvest are banned. There's just too much money being collected from their media campaigns to not want to keep feeding the easy money machine. Every small win for them just enhances their media stature, gives them more mainstream respectability, and encourages them to push even harder for more money to ban all forms of human sport harvesting. If you fish or hunt for sport, don't kid yourself, they are coming after you next.
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IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Pretty much a wash on most fronts. 81 people (actual total head count) including speakers.
And TWO Hunters in opposition.
Sheesh! You'd think the odd guy that lives close might have bothered?
Kind of Embarrassed that me & my Buddy were it....
Sad commentary...
Anyway, I'll file the full report when I get around to it some time tomorrow.
Shakin' the ol' noggin again...
Nog
And TWO Hunters in opposition.
Sheesh! You'd think the odd guy that lives close might have bothered?
Kind of Embarrassed that me & my Buddy were it....
Sad commentary...
Anyway, I'll file the full report when I get around to it some time tomorrow.
Shakin' the ol' noggin again...
Nog
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about the poor turn out from your fellow hunting comrades Nog. On the bright, side 81 people at a pre-planned well organized anti-hunting rally doesn't exactly seem like they have a great deal of public support for their proposed ban. I'm sure their side will claim the numbers were much higher, and the pictures they publicize will have a very narrow field of view to make the crowd appear much larger. This fight will be going on for many years to come. The anti hunting/fishing groups have no intention of stopping until they get full bans. Good for you for taking the time to attend.
JAC
Well-Known Member
There is a lot of support to end trophy hunting, I think u will see this used in the next elections. I'm a serious hunter maybe 30-40 trips a year. Kill what you eat that's it, and end the whitetail doe season haha. If you kill a bear just for the rug and don't take the meat seems wasteful!! A NHL player shooting a bear in the rain forest when he didn't have a license didn't do the trophy hunting sport any favours. What do you guys think would be said on this forum if some guy caught a 300lbs Hali and cut the head off and through all the meat back in the water. Waste!!
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Alrighty then, here is the report from yesterday's activities.
Wandered down Island fairly early, and hooked up with Foxy just south of Nanaimo. Then continued on to Victoria. Upon arrival at the Legislative Grounds, it was apparent that we were a tad early. Although a tent was being set up, there were almost no folks around at all. So, we sat for a spell and bs'd about hunts and fun gone by, and what the future may hold in store in that regard...
While we did so, the tent was set-up was finalized, and those who had done so turned their attention to a huge blow-up figure. Had to laugh once they got the damn thing inflated, it looked a hell of a lot more like a PIG than a grizz
By 1:15 pm, fifteen minutes after the show was supposed to go, it looked like the organizers were giving up hoping for more people to show, and so they proceeded with their first speaker. This FN Lady welcomed all who had shown up and firmly reminded them that they were standing on un-ceded territory of her nation (The same firm reminder was subsequently repeated by each speaker at the start of their presentation). Then she went into a bit of a diatribe on how the grizzlies have souls, think and feel as humans do, and must therefore be considered special & sacred by all...
As their proceedings were now underway, I stood off to one side and conducted an actual head count. 81, including the presenters. I suspected they were hoping for many more, but then again, I too thought my Partner and I might have realized something (anything?) in the way of support from our side too. Oh well, it was what it was, and the indications suggested this might not be quite the Raging Dispute of such import to so many here in BC...
...
Wandered down Island fairly early, and hooked up with Foxy just south of Nanaimo. Then continued on to Victoria. Upon arrival at the Legislative Grounds, it was apparent that we were a tad early. Although a tent was being set up, there were almost no folks around at all. So, we sat for a spell and bs'd about hunts and fun gone by, and what the future may hold in store in that regard...
While we did so, the tent was set-up was finalized, and those who had done so turned their attention to a huge blow-up figure. Had to laugh once they got the damn thing inflated, it looked a hell of a lot more like a PIG than a grizz
By 1:15 pm, fifteen minutes after the show was supposed to go, it looked like the organizers were giving up hoping for more people to show, and so they proceeded with their first speaker. This FN Lady welcomed all who had shown up and firmly reminded them that they were standing on un-ceded territory of her nation (The same firm reminder was subsequently repeated by each speaker at the start of their presentation). Then she went into a bit of a diatribe on how the grizzlies have souls, think and feel as humans do, and must therefore be considered special & sacred by all...
As their proceedings were now underway, I stood off to one side and conducted an actual head count. 81, including the presenters. I suspected they were hoping for many more, but then again, I too thought my Partner and I might have realized something (anything?) in the way of support from our side too. Oh well, it was what it was, and the indications suggested this might not be quite the Raging Dispute of such import to so many here in BC...
...
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
The gal that spoke next represented the wildlife viewing faction. Here she suggested that their operations make literally Millions upon Millions from viewing grizzlies in BC, and stated that was leaps and bounds beyond the amounts injected into the economy from hunting. Oddly though, she did not point out any examples of her industry putting so much as a single red cent back in to help support the resources they make their money on. She did however state that the only reason the moratorium was lifted was due to influence purchasing on behalf of the hunters. "Big money always gets their way".
Huh? Thought you just told us that you made WAY more money than the hunters could ever dream of? Hypocritical much??
She was followed by international traveler and activist Jens Wieting.
His spin was that the bears were "in trouble" world wide, and that under such circumstances any removal at all was a "travesty". Of course he said that with a hell of a lot more words, but that was the gist while comparing grizzlies with various species poised on the verge of extinction...
Towards the end of his speech, he then led the crowd into the throws of Anthropomorphic Ecstasy! He asked them to reply loudly "Just Like Us" to everything he tossed out - Grizzlies don't Like to be hunted "Just like Us". Grizzlies love their families "Just Like Us" etc etc etc. From the feverish look on many of the faces, I'd say more than a handful honestly believed in what they were shouting...
Next up was the Green party gal, going well beyond the suggestions of her leader, and stating nothing short of a complete end to hunting these bears would suffice. Again, a lot more words to get that across, but that is often expected from an aspiring politico...
While she droned on, my Partner & I decided to take in the propaganda wall on the side of the tent:
Interesting portrayal of females with cubs to make their (erroneous) point:
Bryce Casavant - the ex - CO who is now running for the NDP took the stage. He too touted the party line, but again went beyond the party's stated platform, and demanded an end to all hunting of grizzlies. Again, a lot more words, and again, an aspiring politico...
Although my Partner and I were dressed intentionally to stand apart from the protesters present (Stetsons, fringed buckskins and a slicker) we stood quietly to one side, and only voiced opinions when asked. Oddly enough, during the two politico's presentations, a member of the CP press approached us, and made a point of asking some spot-on questions. Guess that bothered a few in the audience as they soon tried to hush us into silence. We simply moved a little further away, and continued addressing the well posed questions to the media...
The next fellow up represents what I generally refer to as The Crazies - The Animal Protection Party. Knowing his support leans on HSUS and PETA, I expected some rather out there ramblings. Even so, I was quite taken aback when he pointed me and my Partner out, called us Christie's Henchmen (WTF?) and worse while demanding our presence was Most Unwelcome. He continued his attack for several minutes before launching into the spiel I suspected he was here to deliver. And in that, he did not fail! Grizzlies are not the only target for these folks! He specifically mentioned Mountain Sheep and a couple of others, noting that "every year thousands of animals in BC are "murdered" in cold blood by hunters" and that "this all must come to an end". No surprises, and again the little gathering enthusiastically shouted their support.
At that point I thought we were likely going to get away lucky, as there had been no other distasteful behavior towards us beyond the Crazy noted above. I was wrong. Almost immediately after the last speaker stood down, a young fellow marched over angrily to confront us. His aggressive behavior soon led to him shouting Bastards Bastards right in our faces while leaning aggressively like he was encouraging a physical response. I have to hand it to Foxton - the Man stood there and took that abuse like a Saint! I had to turn away, for I could feel the anger building, and did not want to engage with this fool in the manner my subconscious suggested would be most fitting...
Suddenly two Mounties approached at a stiff walk. Uh-Oh I thought, here we go...
To my surprise they took the aggressive young man in tow, and directed him away from us and off the grounds! Well done Fine Sirs!!
Most of the press then moved to approach us, and we answered numerous questions. The press were not aggressive, seemed honestly curious, and the questions they asked could not have been primed any better for us. My Partner re-used the point he had been making all day: "Trophy & Grizzly Hunting are neither synonymous nor interchangeable!" He added at one point he had "eaten every grizzly he had ever killed" which caused an elderly grandma type to become viciously vulgar behind his back. I had to work to keep the smile off my wrinkled old mug at that one...
The message I stuck with is that Conservation and Management MUST be addressed through Science, NOT sentiment. That was actually well received by the press, and even a couple of their speakers...
Speaking of their speakers, one by one they approached and apologized for the last of their kind's harsh treatment of us. The Lady who was the Organizer went so far as to thank, and compliment us on governing ourselves like "True Gentlemen"!! Wowsers!
She did of course try to make another point, countering the numbers (yes, I am very familiar with them) by saying she recognized those, but that "Ethics" should / must play as large as role as the numbers in wildlife management. I explained that really has no place in the scientific world, so she explained that her learning was in the field of Political & Social Sciences. That made where she was coming from a little more clear, but of course I was not about to cede the point she was attempting to foist upon me...
Could not help the thought lurking in the back of my mind that to me "ethics" means a clean kill... but of course I chose not to put that one out there...
Casavant surprised me as well. He strode up and offered his hand. I politely declined, noting I knew why he had been fired, and that I seriously questioned his critique of the latest grizzly bear management publication. Further I noted that a doctoral candidate had no real place questioning three very experienced and recognized fellows who had carried that particular title for many many years. He kind of squirmed a bit with that one, but we did have a considerate conversation afterwards. In the end I did shake his hand as we parted, more or less agreeing to disagree it seemed...
Overall their turn out was pretty damn spotty for such a loudly touted issue, and especially so given the wide broadcast this had within their circles. I expected a lot more. I believe they did too. Unfortunately I also expected more from our side of the equation, but then again, apathy among hunters and fisherfolks is something that I have learned should bear little surprise for me any more...
I believe we carried ourselves off in a very non-confrontational manner (almost gentlemanly you might say), answered the questions posed succinctly, and managed to get both a lot of interest as well as our point across to the media. Mostly a Win for us I would think...
Finally I want to thank Jim Foxton for standing beside me through this little show. Although this was actually the first time we have met, I cannot think of anyone better to do so! His points were clear & eloquent, and his resolve and quiet demeanor when challenged by the frothing mouthed nutbar were professional well beyond that standard! Well Done Jim!! Methinks you and I just started the beginning of a long friendship Buddy!!
And that's the way it was...
Yesterday's CTV News Report: http://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/video?binId=1.1777488
Cheers,
Matt
Huh? Thought you just told us that you made WAY more money than the hunters could ever dream of? Hypocritical much??
She was followed by international traveler and activist Jens Wieting.
His spin was that the bears were "in trouble" world wide, and that under such circumstances any removal at all was a "travesty". Of course he said that with a hell of a lot more words, but that was the gist while comparing grizzlies with various species poised on the verge of extinction...
Towards the end of his speech, he then led the crowd into the throws of Anthropomorphic Ecstasy! He asked them to reply loudly "Just Like Us" to everything he tossed out - Grizzlies don't Like to be hunted "Just like Us". Grizzlies love their families "Just Like Us" etc etc etc. From the feverish look on many of the faces, I'd say more than a handful honestly believed in what they were shouting...
Next up was the Green party gal, going well beyond the suggestions of her leader, and stating nothing short of a complete end to hunting these bears would suffice. Again, a lot more words to get that across, but that is often expected from an aspiring politico...
While she droned on, my Partner & I decided to take in the propaganda wall on the side of the tent:
Interesting portrayal of females with cubs to make their (erroneous) point:
Bryce Casavant - the ex - CO who is now running for the NDP took the stage. He too touted the party line, but again went beyond the party's stated platform, and demanded an end to all hunting of grizzlies. Again, a lot more words, and again, an aspiring politico...
Although my Partner and I were dressed intentionally to stand apart from the protesters present (Stetsons, fringed buckskins and a slicker) we stood quietly to one side, and only voiced opinions when asked. Oddly enough, during the two politico's presentations, a member of the CP press approached us, and made a point of asking some spot-on questions. Guess that bothered a few in the audience as they soon tried to hush us into silence. We simply moved a little further away, and continued addressing the well posed questions to the media...
The next fellow up represents what I generally refer to as The Crazies - The Animal Protection Party. Knowing his support leans on HSUS and PETA, I expected some rather out there ramblings. Even so, I was quite taken aback when he pointed me and my Partner out, called us Christie's Henchmen (WTF?) and worse while demanding our presence was Most Unwelcome. He continued his attack for several minutes before launching into the spiel I suspected he was here to deliver. And in that, he did not fail! Grizzlies are not the only target for these folks! He specifically mentioned Mountain Sheep and a couple of others, noting that "every year thousands of animals in BC are "murdered" in cold blood by hunters" and that "this all must come to an end". No surprises, and again the little gathering enthusiastically shouted their support.
At that point I thought we were likely going to get away lucky, as there had been no other distasteful behavior towards us beyond the Crazy noted above. I was wrong. Almost immediately after the last speaker stood down, a young fellow marched over angrily to confront us. His aggressive behavior soon led to him shouting Bastards Bastards right in our faces while leaning aggressively like he was encouraging a physical response. I have to hand it to Foxton - the Man stood there and took that abuse like a Saint! I had to turn away, for I could feel the anger building, and did not want to engage with this fool in the manner my subconscious suggested would be most fitting...
Suddenly two Mounties approached at a stiff walk. Uh-Oh I thought, here we go...
To my surprise they took the aggressive young man in tow, and directed him away from us and off the grounds! Well done Fine Sirs!!
Most of the press then moved to approach us, and we answered numerous questions. The press were not aggressive, seemed honestly curious, and the questions they asked could not have been primed any better for us. My Partner re-used the point he had been making all day: "Trophy & Grizzly Hunting are neither synonymous nor interchangeable!" He added at one point he had "eaten every grizzly he had ever killed" which caused an elderly grandma type to become viciously vulgar behind his back. I had to work to keep the smile off my wrinkled old mug at that one...
The message I stuck with is that Conservation and Management MUST be addressed through Science, NOT sentiment. That was actually well received by the press, and even a couple of their speakers...
Speaking of their speakers, one by one they approached and apologized for the last of their kind's harsh treatment of us. The Lady who was the Organizer went so far as to thank, and compliment us on governing ourselves like "True Gentlemen"!! Wowsers!
She did of course try to make another point, countering the numbers (yes, I am very familiar with them) by saying she recognized those, but that "Ethics" should / must play as large as role as the numbers in wildlife management. I explained that really has no place in the scientific world, so she explained that her learning was in the field of Political & Social Sciences. That made where she was coming from a little more clear, but of course I was not about to cede the point she was attempting to foist upon me...
Could not help the thought lurking in the back of my mind that to me "ethics" means a clean kill... but of course I chose not to put that one out there...
Casavant surprised me as well. He strode up and offered his hand. I politely declined, noting I knew why he had been fired, and that I seriously questioned his critique of the latest grizzly bear management publication. Further I noted that a doctoral candidate had no real place questioning three very experienced and recognized fellows who had carried that particular title for many many years. He kind of squirmed a bit with that one, but we did have a considerate conversation afterwards. In the end I did shake his hand as we parted, more or less agreeing to disagree it seemed...
Overall their turn out was pretty damn spotty for such a loudly touted issue, and especially so given the wide broadcast this had within their circles. I expected a lot more. I believe they did too. Unfortunately I also expected more from our side of the equation, but then again, apathy among hunters and fisherfolks is something that I have learned should bear little surprise for me any more...
I believe we carried ourselves off in a very non-confrontational manner (almost gentlemanly you might say), answered the questions posed succinctly, and managed to get both a lot of interest as well as our point across to the media. Mostly a Win for us I would think...
Finally I want to thank Jim Foxton for standing beside me through this little show. Although this was actually the first time we have met, I cannot think of anyone better to do so! His points were clear & eloquent, and his resolve and quiet demeanor when challenged by the frothing mouthed nutbar were professional well beyond that standard! Well Done Jim!! Methinks you and I just started the beginning of a long friendship Buddy!!
And that's the way it was...
Yesterday's CTV News Report: http://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/video?binId=1.1777488
Cheers,
Matt