Fisherman Rob
Well-Known Member
LOL... Grandpa is that you? I'd say modern chart plotters are intended to be used any way that best suits you, as long as it's used correctly.
Course up or N up. Chart Orientation.
- Thread starter Birdsnest
- Start date
LOL... Grandpa is that you? I'd say modern chart plotters are intended to be used any way that best suits you, as long as it's used correctly.
Striker
Member
Years ago when flying an airplane, we used paper charts. Always turned the chart so that the course was up. That way it was easier to follow roads and rivers when looking at the chart. So it's natural for me to use the course up on my plotter as it more accurately follows the 'real world'.
I'm sure there isn't a pilot out there that would use North up on a GPS unless it was zoomed way out.
I'm sure there isn't a pilot out there that would use North up on a GPS unless it was zoomed way out.
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Tugcapitan
Well-Known Member
Just searched a couple aviation forums for fun, seemed like it caused quite a divide over there too! I didn't read them all, but it seemed like North up had a small edge in responses.
The Military pilots all said they trained North up. The recreational guys seemed 50/50.
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
There is one screen that has not been mentioned and that is Track up where there is a set course on the gps and that Track will remain up. I would suspect that this screen orientation would come up in the aviation discussions.
Edit: but there really is little difference between using track up and course up with a waypoint heading line on the screen.
beemer
Well-Known Member
As mentioned all those folks using heads up or course up and it "bounces" around at slow speed you need a heading sensor.
Track (or course up) IS different than heads up if you have a heading sensor. Heads up will give you the physical position that your boat is pointing ,that will jive with your radar screen. Track up or course up will give you the position that your boat is GOING. If you are is a 3 knot current going 7 knots the direction your boat is heading will be different than your course .
beemer
Track (or course up) IS different than heads up if you have a heading sensor. Heads up will give you the physical position that your boat is pointing ,that will jive with your radar screen. Track up or course up will give you the position that your boat is GOING. If you are is a 3 knot current going 7 knots the direction your boat is heading will be different than your course .
beemer
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
I just questioned my two closest pilot affiliates one whom is x military and commercial pilot whom now is in management of canadas most successful airline. This is his response:
Both depending on what we are doing. Most of the time it is course up or track up. When in the ground taxiing we will use north up to orient the buildings and facilities for better situational awareness. When airborne track up is the normal selection.
The second is a commercial pilot whom has flown for the united nations and the red cross all over the world. Her response:
I prefer course up. I also prefer a real map like that. Lol. I'll always hold my map in my lap with course up.
When asked how many of the pilots she has flown with use course or track up she responded 99%.
Just a quick survey.
Both depending on what we are doing. Most of the time it is course up or track up. When in the ground taxiing we will use north up to orient the buildings and facilities for better situational awareness. When airborne track up is the normal selection.
The second is a commercial pilot whom has flown for the united nations and the red cross all over the world. Her response:
I prefer course up. I also prefer a real map like that. Lol. I'll always hold my map in my lap with course up.
When asked how many of the pilots she has flown with use course or track up she responded 99%.
Just a quick survey.
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ratherbefishing
Well-Known Member
Course up at all times for me except when slow trolling offshore with no landmarks. I don't need to do it but course up helps me visualize the 'path' ahead.
spring fever
Well-Known Member
I have been a military pilot all my adult life until I retired-when travelling fast. very low to the ground your map has to reflect the Course directly ahead-you aren't really concerned with the big picture only the course ahead and you have no time to do mental gymnastics as to where north is or trying to flip maps around. Same applies to me when I'm on plane in a boat-albeit 20 or so times slower--the correct shore is where it should be out the window-if I want to get away from it I instantly move the boat away from it-there is no confusion as there can be with a North up orientation. When I'm trolling or stationary off-shore I use a north up orientation-stops the plotter doing flip-flops and also I am interested in the big picture. Not so difficult really as I have two plotters and I am never on the plane navigating from the back deck
Gong Show
Well-Known Member
It's all in how and what you learned on.
Course up in recreational and small commercial boating has only been available at reasonable cost for something like 20 years.
The fifteen years before that I have navigated many thousands of nautical miles with minimal confusion.
I just laugh at you who are stating with 100% certainty that course up is the best for this or that type of boating.
That's crap.
I have learned a specific way and that is how my brain is now wired, I am not going to change now.
Old dog, new tricks? Maybe.
Looks like I will have to tell my favourite electronic companies to keep the north up option.
Course up in recreational and small commercial boating has only been available at reasonable cost for something like 20 years.
The fifteen years before that I have navigated many thousands of nautical miles with minimal confusion.
I just laugh at you who are stating with 100% certainty that course up is the best for this or that type of boating.
That's crap.
I have learned a specific way and that is how my brain is now wired, I am not going to change now.
Old dog, new tricks? Maybe.
Looks like I will have to tell my favourite electronic companies to keep the north up option.
spring fever
Well-Known Member
Nobody is trying to convince anyone to change--the question was what do you use and why? They will never get rid of north up because that is the most stable and best depiction when you are slow and/or trying to get a handle on the big picture. They decided to make life easier for the directionally challenged by giving you the option of putting the course up just like you would do if you were track crawling along a map. If you have been following a chart plotter at dusk in a North up orientation heading south and have made a slight course correction only to discover you turned the wrong way then you will probably love course up. To each his own -they both have there place but unless you have 2 plotters I would not recommend switching between Course up and North up . Stick with one or the other.
I think there are 3 considerations/reasons why people may decide 1 option over the other:
1/ Habits/familiarity - discussed at length,
2/ Ability to - in ones head - to locate ship's position and assess directions and locate landmarks on a North-up map (allieved for some by a stable heads-up), and
3/ speed - takes a little time to locate ship's position and assess directions and locate landmarks on a North-up map. No problem at 7-12 kts - a little tougher at 20+ kts when close to rocks or in a twisty channel - prob very difficult in a plane due to speed.
1/ Habits/familiarity - discussed at length,
2/ Ability to - in ones head - to locate ship's position and assess directions and locate landmarks on a North-up map (allieved for some by a stable heads-up), and
3/ speed - takes a little time to locate ship's position and assess directions and locate landmarks on a North-up map. No problem at 7-12 kts - a little tougher at 20+ kts when close to rocks or in a twisty channel - prob very difficult in a plane due to speed.
Tugcapitan
Well-Known Member
I can see why that might sound odd. However, for some weird reason commercial grade GPS chart programs crash. A lot. So with a radar that is stabilized by a gyrocompass heading, it doesn't matter if the chart program is unavailable, its business as usual with a radar picture that matches the chart perfectly. Even then it takes a bit of practice not to mistake one point or headland for another on the radar, but with electronic bearing lines and variable range markers that are giving true headings due to the fact they are synced with the gyro, you can take range and bearings that put you in your exact position. Seems funny in an age where your phone can pin point your location in seconds, but if it's not an internationally approved system, it's against the law to use it as your sole method of navigating.
That all being said, if the gyro compass or its feed to the radar fails, the first thing we do is switch the radar to a heads up orientation!
As others have said, I guess it's what your used to or trained on. For me, I feel like North up is the best method of maintaining excellent situational awareness, and then it doesn't matter if the GPS or chart program craps out. All trained up for when Donald Trump turns it off on us lol
finaddict
Well-Known Member
".For me, I feel like North up is the best method of maintaining excellent situational awareness, and then it doesn't matter if the GPS or chart program craps out"
For me this is my main reason as well. I find that wind and current directions are already in my head when I run North up. I like some of the reasons people are stating for course up though. I might have to try it at speed.
For me this is my main reason as well. I find that wind and current directions are already in my head when I run North up. I like some of the reasons people are stating for course up though. I might have to try it at speed.
spring fever
Well-Known Member
Got to admit track crawling on a map at 200ft and 600mph was not an easy skill to learn and I'm not sure it wasn't an art rather than a science . A chart plotter such as we have today would have made you a God in the low-level nav world!!
Striper Sniper
Well-Known Member
My step father was also a pilot like Spring Fever albeit Cessna's not jets and the only way he ran was North up........I never figured it out to this day to where I am comfortable with North up. Track up seems sooooooo much easier to use, at least for me...... I have a Lowrance radar which super imposes itself over the GPS so even easier......
Ha! hambone - and thanks! Still do it on some boats/situations. Did quite a bit of it with a sounder and a magnetic compass growing-up (and a chart, and a table with engine speeds correlated to speed over ground for fog). If you loose your power - most of your installed navigation gear is U/S - although I also take a hand-held GPS along for long journeys - just in case. Navigation is always - and should always be "watchkeeping" - keeping a watch - looking out the window and using what you have -including the basics like a magnetic compass and a chart. It still is required by law to have charts. Most people forget what a chart and a compass are - once they get trained and used to a GPS. I also slide a small, hand-held compass in my ditch bag, along with a waterproof VHF - just in case.
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TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
You may never think you'll have to navigate by compass or charts because of redundant electronics, but never say never. Your main power could suffer a catastrophic failure and of course it would end up being right when your battery on your phone is going dead because you forgot to plug it in
So true. Compass and charts may be a true life saver if you have a catastrophic electrical/power failure. You can't rely on handheld devices in that case because the battery may die and you may not have a way of charging them if your wiring/charging system has been fried. You could be reduced to navigating solely with your kicker and no electronics in that unimaginable, but possible worst case scenario.
So true. Compass and charts may be a true life saver if you have a catastrophic electrical/power failure. You can't rely on handheld devices in that case because the battery may die and you may not have a way of charging them if your wiring/charging system has been fried. You could be reduced to navigating solely with your kicker and no electronics in that unimaginable, but possible worst case scenario.
