Charter tipping

As always this sort of thread brings out the skinflints and no one squeezes a nickel harder than Canadians.
 
Aussies have a worldwide reputation when it comes to tipping.
Q. What's the difference between an Aussie and a canoe?
A. A canoe might tip.
 
Been reading this thread and relating it back to all my guide experiences over 3 decades and after reading a few of these posts I cracked a few smiles and laughed out loud.

Guiding is a SERVICE and HOSPITALITY and TOURISM business. It's multidisciplinary. Gratuities are reasonably justified.

I'll speak for the hard working experienced guides who have earned their stripes in this industry who have read this thread and have more fishing knowledge and talent than many of the naysayers on this thread will ever have...we sincerely hope we don't run into the non tippers in this thread. We are passionate about what we do and how we earn our bread. We share our knowledge, skills and employ our passion to show you a thing or two and give you a memorable experience whether the fish are there, biting or not. For those of you who choose to exploit and experience a senior guide experience and then stiff them on the tip is a form of exploitation to be honest. Perhaps you should try the lowest rate guide/charter and ask for the rookie guide.

The good Guides aren't ******, labourers, minions or servants. They are skilled professionals with lots of hours of planning, preparation, homework and knowledge backing them up.

There are different types and kinds of people. Some people want to the guide to keep his mouth shut and say as little as possible while they enjoy the fishing and everything else. Some want a comedian and others want a jester. I've had them all, including "guests" who insulted my intelligence, country and values.

I will tell you that if you don't want to reward a guide or operator for showing you a high end value added personalized experience, experienced Guides will save the owner or themselves the fuel, leave the prized and expensive lures in the box, and purposely avoid tubbing out to spare the boat cleaning, filleting and fuss back at the dock.

Any guide who says they have never done this is a liar.

And by the way, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. To draw parallels between a waitress and a guide is a poor comparison. The difference is huge...guides can waitress/waiter, but waitresses/waiters can't guide...but I' ll bet the tight clothed broads at Cactus Club and/or Earls make as much if not more money in a shift than a guide does...something wrong with that...so if you have 3 beers at the bar you would tip 10% only? Bullsh#t! You would tip 20% or more.
 
fishin_magician said:
Been reading this thread and relating it back to all my guide experiences over 3 decades and after reading a few of these posts I cracked a few smiles and laughed out loud.

Guiding is a SERVICE and HOSPITALITY and TOURISM business. It's multidisciplinary. Gratuities are reasonably justified.

I'll speak for the hard working experienced guides who have earned their stripes in this industry who have read this thread and have more fishing knowledge and talent than many of the naysayers on this thread will ever have...we sincerely hope we don't run into the non tippers in this thread. We are passionate about what we do and how we earn our bread. We share our knowledge, skills and employ our passion to show you a thing or two and give you a memorable experience whether the fish are there, biting or not. For those of you who choose to exploit and experience a senior guide experience and then stiff them on the tip is a form of exploitation to be honest. Perhaps you should try the lowest rate guide/charter and ask for the rookie guide.

The good Guides aren't ******, labourers, minions or servants. They are skilled professionals with lots of hours of planning, preparation, homework and knowledge backing them up.

There are different types and kinds of people. Some people want to the guide to keep his mouth shut and say as little as possible while they enjoy the fishing and everything else. Some want a comedian and others want a jester. I've had them all, including "guests" who insulted my intelligence, country and values.

I will tell you that if you don't want to reward a guide or operator for showing you a high end value added personalized experience, experienced Guides will save the owner or themselves the fuel, leave the prized and expensive lures in the box, and purposely avoid tubbing out to spare the boat cleaning, filleting and fuss back at the dock.

Any guide who says they have never done this is a liar.

And by the way, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. To draw parallels between a waitress and a guide is a poor comparison. The difference is huge...guides can waitress/waiter, but waitresses/waiters can't guide...but I' ll bet the tight clothed broads at Cactus Club and/or Earls make as much if not more money in a shift than a guide does...something wrong with that...so if you have 3 beers at the bar you would tip 10% only? Bullsh#t! You would tip 20% or more.
Click to expand...

We are two guys on an $1000 charter off Port Renfrew
good guide...crappy weather 4 springs up to 20 pounds and 2 chicken halibut
Tip $50 each...$100 total...10% on the $1000 tab.
are we tight wads and is the guide **** off?
 
fishin_magician said:
Been reading this thread and relating it back to all my guide experiences over 3 decades and after reading a few of these posts I cracked a few smiles and laughed out loud.

Guiding is a SERVICE and HOSPITALITY and TOURISM business. It's multidisciplinary. Gratuities are reasonably justified.

I'll speak for the hard working experienced guides who have earned their stripes in this industry who have read this thread and have more fishing knowledge and talent than many of the naysayers on this thread will ever have...we sincerely hope we don't run into the non tippers in this thread. We are passionate about what we do and how we earn our bread. We share our knowledge, skills and employ our passion to show you a thing or two and give you a memorable experience whether the fish are there, biting or not. For those of you who choose to exploit and experience a senior guide experience and then stiff them on the tip is a form of exploitation to be honest. Perhaps you should try the lowest rate guide/charter and ask for the rookie guide.

The good Guides aren't ******, labourers, minions or servants. They are skilled professionals with lots of hours of planning, preparation, homework and knowledge backing them up.

There are different types and kinds of people. Some people want to the guide to keep his mouth shut and say as little as possible while they enjoy the fishing and everything else. Some want a comedian and others want a jester. I've had them all, including "guests" who insulted my intelligence, country and values.

I will tell you that if you don't want to reward a guide or operator for showing you a high end value added personalized experience, experienced Guides will save the owner or themselves the fuel, leave the prized and expensive lures in the box, and purposely avoid tubbing out to spare the boat cleaning, filleting and fuss back at the dock.

Any guide who says they have never done this is a liar.

And by the way, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. To draw parallels between a waitress and a guide is a poor comparison. The difference is huge...guides can waitress/waiter, but waitresses/waiters can't guide...but I' ll bet the tight clothed broads at Cactus Club and/or Earls make as much if not more money in a shift than a guide does...something wrong with that...so if you have 3 beers at the bar you would tip 10% only? Bullsh#t! You would tip 20% or more.
Click to expand...

Good call, but hopefully i made the distinction between how I would tip between a server and a guide. To me they are TOTALLY different trades.

To be honest I have only used a guide once, when taking a saltwater course from a local operator a couple years ago. On this occasion, I didnt tip at all, and that was because the guide didnt let anyone touch rods/downriggers/explain spots and tracks/do anything that would make this trip what it was supposed to be, a trip about learning to fish local waters. I noticed a marked difference between out on the water and 10 mins from dock when his demeanour changed dramatically and i saw it for what it was. I basically watched him fish all day.

Anyway, as i said, I brought up servers in a charter tip thread, prob shouldnt have, but maybe sometimes the tip culture can spill over. To me, a foreign guy from a country that doesnt tip, there is something weird about this expected surcharge. You have to admit, it is an expected surcharge. How many people will stand there and say that they didnt do what was necessary to get the tip?

While I dont fight the tip culture here because I am in Rome, I think its lost its way a little bit.
 
fogged in said:
We are two guys on an $1000 charter off Port Renfrew
good guide...crappy weather 4 springs up to 20 pounds and 2 chicken halibut
Tip $50 each...$100 total...10% on the $1000 tab.
are we tight wads and is the guide **** off?
Click to expand...

Depends on what the guide went through to get you those fish...did his knowledge result in outfishing the fleet or other boats 2 or 3 to 1?and he go out of his way to take you there? Did you break off 4 2 lb Balls when bottom fishing and make the guide retie all his gear 4 times over? Did you break off 2 6" Tubby Tomic Plugs of his personal gear at $15 each of his custom designs? Did you break off 1 or more flashers and leaders? Was he pleasant and/or did he meet or exceed your expectations? Did he ice or spend detailed effort when filleting and dressing your catch? Did you leave 24 empties on board with a garbage bag full of trash and leave a greasy mess on the deck from your footwear or pizza you dropped?

He shouldn't get $100 for what he caught....he should get $100 for his efforts and other factors and your relative assessment of the experience based on your expectations. If he was the owner of the vessel, $100 is adequate. If he was a hired gun who went the extra mile and brought out his personal gear...a bit more would likely be really appreciated. Saltwater Guides running a firms boats have roughly 120 days to bankroll savings to tide them through to finding another job in the "offseason". Likewise owner operators bear increased risk but also have to ensure they make enough to fix everything and stay afloat...and their margins or generally higher when they run their own boat.
 
It's a big assumption that as you say most fishing guides can wait tables. Lots of professionals, including those with the highest degrees of education and experience, could not wait tables.
 
Eastmon said:
Good call, but hopefully i made the distinction between how I would tip between a server and a guide. To me they are TOTALLY different trades.

To be honest I have only used a guide once, when taking a saltwater course from a local operator a couple years ago. On this occasion, I didnt tip at all, and that was because the guide didnt let anyone touch rods/downriggers/explain spots and tracks/do anything that would make this trip what it was supposed to be, a trip about learning to fish local waters. I noticed a marked difference between out on the water and 10 mins from dock when his demeanour changed dramatically and i saw it for what it was. I basically watched him fish all day.

Anyway, as i said, I brought up servers in a charter tip thread, prob shouldnt have, but maybe sometimes the tip culture can spill over. To me, a foreign guy from a country that doesnt tip, there is something weird about this expected surcharge. You have to admit, it is an expected surcharge. How many people will stand there and say that they didnt do what was necessary to get the tip?

While I dont fight the tip culture here because I am in Rome, I think its lost its way a little bit.
Click to expand...

Agreed and valid points. for the saltwater course, it's unfortunate the guide didn't let you operate the gear...try to communicate with the guide what your expectations are...saltwater courses have a wide spectrum of anglers with an equally wide spectrum of experience. It can be unusual for guests to operate downriggers in a course depending on who all is enrolled and what the major expectations are of everyone.
 
QUOTE

Dude was texting most of the trip. I should have gave him zero in hindsight.

UNQUOTE

That's all anybody needs to know. If I was sitting in a boat and the guide was firing off texts for most of the trip I would have told him to bring me back to the dock. He would have gotten way less then a freaking tip

That behavior is unprofessional and rude, even if the fish box was full. Shows a whole pile of useless attitude

Let a guide like that eat hake--
 
Big Green Machine said:
It's a big assumption that as you say most fishing guides can wait tables. Lots of professionals, including those with the highest degrees of education and experience, could not wait tables.
Click to expand...

I'd say better than 95% of the guides I have ever known could easily wait a table and get the hang of running a shift easily. I don't know what guides you know who can't but I bet those guides aren't around for long and don't have any employment continuity with any respectable lodges/firms. Safe to say if any of those guys couldn't wait tables anywhere I have ever guided they usually get fired and quickly.

Degrees and "edumacayshun" are no indicator of aptitude and ability. "Oh...you have an MBA?" ? ,"Here, let me show you how to do that" or "let me do it"
 
Interesting discussion. I spent 30+ years in a Corporate environment. Over the years, I contracted many consultants to advise on various issues our business faced that I felt outside expertise would be helpful. In these situations, we agreed on fees up front and when they delivered their results, whether I liked them or not, I paid the fee. At no point did I think they deserved a tip. I had a guy come to service my heat pump yesterday. He did the job and gave me a bill that I was happy to pay. I didn't feel the need to tip him as well. I might be able to see a distinction between guides who work for lodges, i.e. more like a servers in a restaurants than an owner/guide, who presumably sets their charter prices to cover their costs plus a profit margin, and feel more 'charitable' to the employee guide vs. the owner guide, but .... I struggle on this one.
As for restaurant prices in Australia, Eastmon, on my recent trip to Oz, I found the menu prices were generally higher than what I would pay locally, but the fact that I did not have to tip coupled with the fact that in a lot of places I could bring my own wine and was faced with reasonable corkage charges pretty much equalized the bill.
Bottom line for me is pay staff a reasonable wage, structure service prices to cover costs/profit, and cut out this whole tipping thing. As a few others have noted, the tipping culture provides a great excuse for business owners to pay low wages.
 
fishin_magician said:
Been reading this thread and relating it back to all my guide experiences over 3 decades and after reading a few of these posts I cracked a few smiles and laughed out loud.

Guiding is a SERVICE and HOSPITALITY and TOURISM business. It's multidisciplinary. Gratuities are reasonably justified.

I'll speak for the hard working experienced guides who have earned their stripes in this industry who have read this thread and have more fishing knowledge and talent than many of the naysayers on this thread will ever have...we sincerely hope we don't run into the non tippers in this thread. We are passionate about what we do and how we earn our bread. We share our knowledge, skills and employ our passion to show you a thing or two and give you a memorable experience whether the fish are there, biting or not. For those of you who choose to exploit and experience a senior guide experience and then stiff them on the tip is a form of exploitation to be honest. Perhaps you should try the lowest rate guide/charter and ask for the rookie guide.

The good Guides aren't ******, labourers, minions or servants. They are skilled professionals with lots of hours of planning, preparation, homework and knowledge backing them up.

There are different types and kinds of people. Some people want to the guide to keep his mouth shut and say as little as possible while they enjoy the fishing and everything else. Some want a comedian and others want a jester. I've had them all, including "guests" who insulted my intelligence, country and values.

I will tell you that if you don't want to reward a guide or operator for showing you a high end value added personalized experience, experienced Guides will save the owner or themselves the fuel, leave the prized and expensive lures in the box, and purposely avoid tubbing out to spare the boat cleaning, filleting and fuss back at the dock.

Any guide who says they have never done this is a liar.

And by the way, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. To draw parallels between a waitress and a guide is a poor comparison. The difference is huge...guides can waitress/waiter, but waitresses/waiters can't guide...but I' ll bet the tight clothed broads at Cactus Club and/or Earls make as much if not more money in a shift than a guide does...something wrong with that...so if you have 3 beers at the bar you would tip 10% only? Bullsh#t! You would tip 20% or more.
Click to expand...

You missed the point of my post. There are both true pros and lazy duds amongst the ranks of fishing guides, food/beverage servers, any service industry. I recognise and reward a true pro when I'm lucky enough to get one. Industry-wide expectation of reward does nothing to weed out the unmotivated and untalented, nor does it foster skill development and professionalism for those who would consider a long term career.
 
bigbruce said:
Interesting discussion. I spent 30+ years in a Corporate environment. Over the years, I contracted many consultants to advise on various issues our business faced that I felt outside expertise would be helpful. In these situations, we agreed on fees up front and when they delivered their results, whether I liked them or not, I paid the fee. At no point did I think they deserved a tip. I had a guy come to service my heat pump yesterday. He did the job and gave me a bill that I was happy to pay. I didn't feel the need to tip him as well. I might be able to see a distinction between guides who work for lodges, i.e. more like a servers in a restaurants than an owner/guide, who presumably sets their charter prices to cover their costs plus a profit margin, and feel more 'charitable' to the employee guide vs. the owner guide, but .... I struggle on this one.
As for restaurant prices in Australia, Eastmon, on my recent trip to Oz, I found the menu prices were generally higher than what I would pay locally, but the fact that I did not have to tip coupled with the fact that in a lot of places I could bring my own wine and was faced with reasonable corkage charges pretty much equalized the bill.
Bottom line for me is pay staff a reasonable wage, structure service prices to cover costs/profit, and cut out this whole tipping thing. As a few others have noted, the tipping culture provides a great excuse for business owners to pay low wages.
Click to expand...


Pay a reasonable wage...interesting to know what a reasonable wage is hen for being a fishing guide.

That in itself is another big discussion.

If I called a tech out to check out a furnace which wouldn't turn on or I couldn't fix it myself or a washing machine which won't do what it's supposed to in Urban areas the minimum charge is like $160-$170 right off the bat. If I take my car to a car dealer because it won't run right dealers charge $179.95 for diagnostic whether it takes the guy 10 minutes or a half hour to nail it down despite the fact it had a $300 tune up 10000 kms ago.

Business owners in this province cry, b*tch and whine over the current minimum wage. A living wage in the Lower Mainland is $22.50 per hour to "get by" working full time. $15 is Something being talked about as a minimum right now. Hmmmm...interesting.

Guides at many lodges on this coast are making $120 to $170 a day based on 10 hours dock to dock and not getting overtime rates. I used to get $15 an hour back at lodges in the Late 90's-early 2000's and an extra $25 for a 3rd and 4th guest depending on which lodge. The government makes a killing on those cheque amounts and there are ZERO benefits.

The same lodges are STILL paying the same rates for a shorter season....that's killer.

Many prime remote coastal lodges open in June and shutter in early September. The lodges justify that daily amount by saying "I have to feed you and lodge you". Well, the bills don't stop back home when you are up fishing.

A lodge in the Northern Charlottes is also withholding credit card tips until the end of the season and charging employees a room and board per diem when they have no where else to go. That's BULL.

Now the guide requirement is for 4 Cracker Jack box certifications which cost over $1000 in cash to get and some lodges want CTAGS but don't pay flip all extra for that certification. That's ridiculous. A fishing guide is a trade now...realistically.

Pay everyone a reasonable wage....hmmm...I can't afford to work as a guide at those lodges.... I'm going to ponder what a reasonable wage is for a while....

Tight lines and happy trips and bent rods to all...
 
fishin_magician said:
Pay a reasonable wage...interesting to know what a reasonable wage is hen for being a fishing guide.

That in itself is another big discussion.

If I called a tech out to check out a furnace which wouldn't turn on or I couldn't fix it myself or a washing machine which won't do what it's supposed to in Urban areas the minimum charge is like $160-$170 right off the bat. If I take my car to a car dealer because it won't run right dealers charge $179.95 for diagnostic whether it takes the guy 10 minutes or a half hour to nail it down despite the fact it had a $300 tune up 10000 kms ago.

Business owners in this province cry, b*tch and whine over the current minimum wage. A living wage in the Lower Mainland is $22.50 per hour to "get by" working full time. $15 is Something being talked about as a minimum right now. Hmmmm...interesting.

Guides at many lodges on this coast are making $120 to $170 a day based on 10 hours dock to dock and not getting overtime rates. I used to get $15 an hour back at lodges in the Late 90's-early 2000's and an extra $25 for a 3rd and 4th guest depending on which lodge. The government makes a killing on those cheque amounts and there are ZERO benefits.

The same lodges are STILL paying the same rates for a shorter season....that's killer.

Many prime remote coastal lodges open in June and shutter in early September. The lodges justify that daily amount by saying "I have to feed you and lodge you". Well, the bills don't stop back home when you are up fishing.

A lodge in the Northern Charlottes is also withholding credit card tips until the end of the season and charging employees a room and board per diem when they have no where else to go. That's BULL.

Now the guide requirement is for 4 Cracker Jack box certifications which cost over $1000 in cash to get and some lodges want CTAGS but don't pay flip all extra for that certification. That's ridiculous. A fishing guide is a trade now...realistically.

Pay everyone a reasonable wage....hmmm...I can't afford to work as a guide at those lodges.... I'm going to ponder what a reasonable wage is for a while....

Tight lines and happy trips and bent rods to all...
Click to expand...
Agreed. If they paid all their employees better the cost of those trips would go up 30% but the tight wads wouldn't have to tip
 
bigbruce said:
Interesting discussion. I spent 30+ years in a Corporate environment. Over the years, I contracted many consultants to advise on various issues our business faced that I felt outside expertise would be helpful. In these situations, we agreed on fees up front and when they delivered their results, whether I liked them or not, I paid the fee. At no point did I think they deserved a tip. I had a guy come to service my heat pump yesterday. He did the job and gave me a bill that I was happy to pay. I didn't feel the need to tip him as well. I might be able to see a distinction between guides who work for lodges, i.e. more like a servers in a restaurants than an owner/guide, who presumably sets their charter prices to cover their costs plus a profit margin, and feel more 'charitable' to the employee guide vs. the owner guide, but .... I struggle on this one.
As for restaurant prices in Australia, Eastmon, on my recent trip to Oz, I found the menu prices were generally higher than what I would pay locally, but the fact that I did not have to tip coupled with the fact that in a lot of places I could bring my own wine and was faced with reasonable corkage charges pretty much equalized the bill.
Bottom line for me is pay staff a reasonable wage, structure service prices to cover costs/profit, and cut out this whole tipping thing. As a few others have noted, the tipping culture provides a great excuse for business owners to pay low wages.
Click to expand...

Yea it's hard change a system when it's been in place for a long time.
I find it kind of strange that a grown man/woman can be paid $15 an hour but that's how it is. If they don't like it then take steps to change it. Even that's hard these days, adults with families are forced to go to college, full time, to get even mediocre wages these days. When my wife started looking into careers after our child, she looked at vet nurse and vet assistant jobs. A vet nurse has 2 years full time school for approx $20/h and vet assistant goes for 10 months for just over minimum wage. What a joke.
She went for the dental industry, same deal but better wages.
This college deal is out to lunch, when my boy gets to age, hopefully I can talk him into getting a trade, by far the best option for a lot of kids these days.
 
Ok so here is the deal tipping guides is part of the culture and it has been FOREVER if you don't like it tough luck go play a round of golf. If you wanted to do away with tipping expect to pay a couple hundred more per day for a trip up north. Please note this is for lodge guides and not owner operators. I built a clientel over my years and I always went the extra mile for party. Coffee how they liked it, cold beverages on ice, dry seats in the am, fishing the way they wanted. Trying new places fly rods for big springs, all kinds of stuff. Way above the status quo. but then again I guided people who appreciated this and they were happy to throw a little grease under the wheels.
 
fogged in said:
We are two guys on an $1000 charter off Port Renfrew
good guide...crappy weather 4 springs up to 20 pounds and 2 chicken halibut
Tip $50 each...$100 total...10% on the $1000 tab.
are we tight wads and is the guide **** off?
Click to expand...


sounds good to me and usually around what i get..
 
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