Candied Salmon in a Little Chief - Help!

[Adler]

I'm taking my second shot at candied salmon this weekend using a little chief smoker. Only my second attempt for any smoking. Have read most of the forum on this, but still have questions.

The first attempt failed miserably. Long story short: dry brine of brown sugar, salt, and maple syrup, brined overnight, smoked for 12 hours, and tasted incredibly salty and smoky. Way too much salt, proportions all wrong. Unsat.

So this time I'm being more precise with the brine and following the Iron Noggin wet recipe. I"m also only doing two small sockeye fillets, so as not to risk too much in one shot. It's been in the brine for 19 hours now, and I'm hoping to have it done by Sunday night. It seems that the long brine is important, the long dry equally important, and I definitely need to limit the amount of smoke generated, as well as insulate the smoker in this cooler Victoria weather.

Here are my immediate questions that I could use assistance with:

1. Should I keep brining longer today, and then dry overnight to smoke tomorrow? Pull out of the brine this evening (say after 20-24 hours of brine time), then dry for 10 hours? Which is more important, the drying or the brining?

2. How can I smoke well without making it taste too smokey? Last time, I made the mistake of putting in too many dishes of chips, and I wet the chips. Do others do that, or is it better to leave them dry? And how many pans - will one or two suffice? And which kind of chips - I did cherry. okay, that's more like 3 questions in one.

3. How long should I leave in that smoker if I start tomorrow? I know it depends on heat, but keep in mind this is an older little chief, in cool temperatures (but it will be insulated) outdoors (in covered space). Can it be done in 4-6 hours, or does it definitely take 10-12 hours or more?

Really appreciate any feedback! We're aiming for a candied salmon like that from Hardy Boys salmon - love their product!

 

[cannibal chris]

Just noticed wet brine. Removed.

 

[bigbruce]

I've used this brine recipe. A bit expensive, but very good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhef6s7uyk8

 

[spring fever]

Indian candy is more a curing process than smoking. I use a dry brine -1kg Demerara sugar to 5/8cup salt pack the strips in it=take out after 12hrs-Stir the ensuing brine and make sure all the sugar salt is dissolved- add whatever additional spices /flavours at this point-garlic/peppers/maple flavour/liquid smoke/orange-whatever-careful not to add stuff like soy sauce which increases salt. Repack the fish -making sure its covered (tip-place paper towel over top of fish-this soaks up some liquid and makes sure the top pieces of fish get fully sugared/brined. Place container in fridge for another 31/2 days- place on racks-dry with a fan for 3 to 5 hrs-smoke at 120 degrees for 2 to 5 hrs-longer if you want a more jerky like product-On the last smoke brush on a Rum or whisky sugar mixture-to die for-just don't leave it in the smoker too long and dry it out.

 

[Adler]

Thanks for the thoughts so far - the brine I used is similar to the youtube video - lots of honey, syrup, little salt. I decided tonight to pull it out of the brine, and have just hung it to dry. I'm going to dry until the am - probably about 15 hours due to hockey schedule, then smoke for that period you suggested, 3-5 hours, SF. I'll definitely going to do the glaze during the smoke as well.

Thanks for the tips, we'll see how this goes. A whole lot of different ideas out there, gotta find one that works best for us! It's good to know that the candied salmon is more about curing - 3.5 to 4 days of brining! Wow! I got in 22 hours this time.

What the thought on the wet versus dry chips in a little chief? Anyone? I'll need to decide on that in the am.

 

[Halibut-face]

X2 on what spring fever said for brine proportions

 

[getbent]

Use dry chips, the heat of the little chief is only hot enough to make it create the smoke you are after.

 

[Adler]

Great, thanks getbent. After 16 hours drying, it's now out in the smoker with dry chips. I'll be sure to provide updates. It looks great hanging from the racks at this time, hope it works out!

 

[Rockfish]

This is a very simple process that produces excellent maple candied smoke salmon strips every time without high cost.

My favorite salmon for this is a 10lb Coho and a good size for even curing and smoking. There are a lot of Coho this size off Sooke in the fall.

Make sure it is scaled well and filleted. Use stainless needle nose pliers to remove the pin bones.

Leaving the skin attached (holds the salmon together through the process) and cut (knife and or kitchen shears) into approx. six inch by one inch strips. The best are the bellies because more fat equals more flavor. For me there is always a competition between smoking up the bellies and keeping them for Hali fishing.

Place the salmon strips in a large flat deep glass or ceramic casserole/lasagna type dish.

Add sea salt to your amount of preference and mix it in . I don’t like a lot of salt and preservation is not an issue as they will be vacuum packed and frozen. For me a little adds to the flavor and helps with the curing but some may like more. I just do not like it too salty.

Pick up a $10.00, 4 liter jug of ‘Aunt Jemima’s maple syrup’ from Costco and cover the salmon strips with it. Stir in some brown sugar if you wish.

That is the basic recipe but you can add many other things if you wish such as rum flavoring for baking or real rum and things like hot pepper etc. as experimenting is fun. The first time I would suggest just the basic recipe.

Cover the mixture and leave it in the syrup in the fridge for about 30 hours and stir it from time to time. You will notice that as the salmon strips cure/candy up - that they will turn translucent and let light pass through and develop an almost crystalline look. You will also notice that as the sugar and salt displace some of the moisture in the salmon that the syrup will become much thinner and watery. If you wish you can add more brown sugar or swap out some of the thin liquid with thicker fresh maple syrup when this happens, depending on how candied you like it and how much maple flavor you like. It actually does a very good job with just the maple syrup done once and it is less work but toping up the sugar content can decrease the curing time.

Once the curing is done I put baking racks on cookie sheets and place the cured salmon strips on the racks to dry. I use a fan on the racks to speed things up and as the surface gets tacky I like to grind some fresh black pepper onto the strips. You can add other things like painting with rum if you wish but for the first time I would not so that you can get a sense of the baseline and then experiment from there.

It normally takes a few hours with the fan for the strips to dry and tack up and then it is off to the smoker.

After that, vacuum pack and freeze some as mine never lasts long if it is sitting in the fridge.

Some may want to use real maple syrup, now that would be pricy.

 

[fish stalker]

First sockeye! for candy... Unless there is a plethora not sure it would make enough of a difference in taste compared to spring or coho to use other then usually being about perfect size/thickness for candy. Definitely should be good anyway!

Brine is more important then dry/pecile(sp?). Dry brines always turn out more salty for me for some reason. I find easier but prefer wet brine results better. 16 hours dry time is a long time. Been so long since I did any but I know depends a lot on room temp how fast they dry but a fan is a must. I know in summer usually 4-6 hours is fine and usually can see that tackiness by then.

I thought alder is the only way to go for wood choice for salmon. Apple a second. Anything else seems to 'smokey'. Two trays is lots for small chief. I do soak big chips, for those really shredded ones I find you don't need add water but do a small splash of water in tray.

Smoking time really depends on your thickness of fish. Remember the cure is in the cure not the smoking time. Skin also makes a huge difference. esp if you leave on after smoking. I like the oiliness it puts back into the fish. I smoke with skin on leave for 3 days and then take off. I find the fish really changes flavour and texture from the time it comes off the smoker to the next day and the the next day.

 

[Adler]

Thanks Rockfish and Stalker,

Another great looking recipe there Rockfish - my only challenge with that is my wife is part Quebecois and using Aunt Jemina in this house is sacrilege! It's real maple syrup or bust! Looks like I need to plan for longer brining process.

Stalker, I'm using the sockeye as I have a fair amount from my trip up to Campbell River, although this will probably be my last attempt with it this spring. Actually, kicked myself as I have a chum I caught up there too and forgot about, will use that next. Okay, at least one more try this winter!

I found that first dry brine was extremely salty, but it was hard as I was basing recipe on much larger fish quantity, whereas I've been using only 2 filets at a time and have to reduce quantities appropriately. Used only 2 tsps on salt this time around. My brine this time was still too much - did 1/5 of the standard recipe for Iron Noggins candied salmon. If all goes well, I'll do larger batches in the future.

I used a mix of alder and bbq chips today, did only 1 tray. Seems to be going well, and the smoker is staying nice and warm. May have to stick in a thermometer to see how hot it actually is.

I didn't leave on any skin this time around - another consideration for the next batch!

I just put on a glaze of honey and a little syrup. It's tough to apply glaze when it's hanging from the toothpicks. I'm going to give it another hour or so.

 

[fish stalker]

Not sure if you have costco member ship but saw these nifty point and shoot temp gauges on for 19.99 yesterday. Shows its shooting into a oven. Not sure how it measures air temp over metal oven wall but thought it would be a great idea if your running a big/little chief. Esp when its cold and outside.

I did the skewer hang method as I was finding I was getting a metallic taste off my rack. a lot of fuss tho. Figured out it was just one of my racks. Don't need to leave skin if doing that method.

For basting I used Fireball and just put it in a small spray bottle. Didn't work great but was fast for when opening and closing the door trying to keep heat in my big chief.

I got a Bradley given to me last year. Just didn't have and fish to try Think I have a old coho kicking around in my freezer I should haul out and try.

 

[wolf]

First off have to comment to "fish is too salty" i know this is a simple thing to remedy how about using less salt ....... sorry bit of tounge and cheek!!!!!!!

like before I use a mixture of brown and demerria sugar which is 5 cups to 1 cup of salt and its never salty ....

also i make up a huge batch usually 2 to 3 times of it as i dont like to skimp on it so whatever I dont use i have in a air tight container with a chunk of bread in it to not go hard works great and use it for my next batch i put about a inch of coating with my dry brine.

good luck Wolf

 

[Adler]

Hey thanks again Stalker, I did get a thermometer in there and it came in at 120 F, maybe a little higher. Glad it got there with the wrap around it this time, certainly wasn't achieving that last time when I didn't insulate. And basting by spray, not a bad idea. Wouldn't work with something thicker like honey, but a good idea - perhaps with just a bit of honey in more water....Hmmmm. I'll maybe also experiment with skin-on, laying on tray instead of hanging by toothpics.

Wolf - yup, got that salt piece. Figure there has to be some salt, but very little this time around. And great idea - saving the brine for future runs.

So, the results are in. After five hours in the smoker, with only one tray of chips (probably only smoked for about the first 1 1/2 hours, maybe 2 hours, it came out and it is tasty! So not a bomb like last time - very edible. So says my son and wife, not just me, and that's important. I am my worst critic - its pretty sweet, a little too sticky perhaps from the glaze, but it's a great start, and as always, there's lots of room for continued experimentation.

Here are the pics to prove it!

 

[getbent]

Looks good, only gets better from here!

 

[spring fever]

Wolf - yup, got that salt piece. Figure there has to be some salt, but very little this time around. And great idea - saving the brine for future runs.

Just to make sure nobody gets the wrong idea here from Wolfs quote-I think he meant saving the UNUSED sugar salt mixture-I don't think anyone should reuse brine again because it will contain all the water and juices leached out of the previous fish and perhaps could cause some health and spoilage issues!!
By the way-great looking candy!!

 

[Fish Assassin]

That looks awesome.....

 

[IronNoggin]

Looking rather Good for your second attempt!

1. Should I keep brining longer today, and then dry overnight to smoke tomorrow? Pull out of the brine this evening (say after 20-24 hours of brine time), then dry for 10 hours? Which is more important, the drying or the brining?

24 hours in the brine is Good - longer does not hurt. The length of time required is fairly dependent on the thickness of the product you're using - obviously the thicker they are the longer they need to soak.

Drying can take anywhere from 10 to 36 hours - depending on air temperature and again thickness of the product. Using fans to circulate air around the product will speed this up a little.

Both processes are equally important. The brine is what instills the Flavor, and drying gets rid of some of the moisture and forms that nice shiny surface. What you're looking for after drying is a product that greatly resembles the Gummy Bears we used to chow down as kids:

If you want to apply a "glaze" (note that this relatively sweet recipe will form that on it's own) - I suggest doing so through the drying process rather than when in the smoker. Honey glazes can be cut with Rum to make it thin enough to be applied from a squirter bottle. When I do this (usually other recipes) I apply the glaze, dry for a couple of hours (you want the glaze to "tack up"), re-apply, dry, repeat until you get the depth / consistency of glaze you desire. A "finishing glaze" can also be applied near the end of the smoking process if a "crunchier" surface is what you're looking for.

Product should be nearly "dry" to the touch before heading into the smoker, and look like the picture above.

2. How can I smoke well without making it taste too smokey? Last time, I made the mistake of putting in too many dishes of chips, and I wet the chips. Do others do that, or is it better to leave them dry? And how many pans - will one or two suffice? And which kind of chips - I did cherry. okay, that's more like 3 questions in one.

Cherry is a "heavy" smoke too heavy for fish IMHO - I always use a mix of 50-50 Alder and Apple. That produces a nice "velvety" smoke flavor.
Never saw the point of wetting chips. You are drying the product out as much as instilling the smokey flavor, so why add moisture to the process? Doing so means a longer retention time in the smoker.

The "smoking process" is as much or more about Drying than adding smoke. I generally run two pans of chips right at the start, then simply leave the heat medium low (125 degrees) to finish the process. As you've discovered, too much smoke produces a far too heavy smokey taste.

3. How long should I leave in that smoker if I start tomorrow? I know it depends on heat, but keep in mind this is an older little chief, in cool temperatures (but it will be insulated) outdoors (in covered space). Can it be done in 4-6 hours, or does it definitely take 10-12 hours or more?

That of course will depend on product thickness, operating temperature of your smoker, and how well you dried the product before smoking. It's almost impossible to predict without being right familiar with your equipment, and even then requires careful monitoring as it nears completion.

Best bet is simply to watch how the product develops every so often, and when it's getting close, keep a rather sharp eye on it. You really don't want to turn it into Rock Candy! The best is when it's like Gummy Bears, translucent and smokey. What you're looking for is a somewhat darkened version of the picture above, but still translucent and having that same consistency.

You can also add a little of the glaze as the product nears completion - recognize that will require a little more time in the heat, but does produce a nice crunchy glaze.

Btw - I have never left the skin on for Candy type recipes. Others Yes, this one I find it unnecessary.

Looks like you are off to a great start! If I can be of any assistance for your next go, feel free to pm...

Cheers,
Nog

 

[wolf]

Yes spring correct after you dry brine it goes all liquid in about 2 hours as the salt is drawing out the moisture of the fish hence the curing process. after 24 to 48 hours the fish gets washed and brine dumped then fish hangs for a min of 3 to 4 hours with a fan on it in winter over night as its cold enough.

the DRY mixture is put in air tight tupperware or chamber sealed

 

[Adler]

Thanks Iron Noggin for the great feedback and tips, very useful! On day two today, it tasted even better than yesterday, so I know this recipe will form the foundation of my next few attempts - in larger quantities. I may fire you some questions in the future!

Cheers all!