YOU HAVE BEEN SHAFTED!!!! --Oh ya!!

Count me in: Boat & Trailer.

Govner, your definition of us 'Sporties' as 'meek' couldn't be more accurate.

Whine... complain... *****.... criticize the other guy... then sit on your butt and do SFA!

Sometimes I wonder if our fishes or our precious pastime stand a chance.
 
Hi Govenor:

Just a thought about your messaging.

What is your message? - Specificly.

As you are asking people who can not make it to Victoria, to protest in front of their local DFO office (good plan), can you make up a flyer in PDF format that can be emailed and printed by those people to give out to the out of Victoria protesters?

A simple B&W letter size flyer that they can hand out to the public that wanders by and asks "what's goin on here?"

Trust me, you don't want 30 people making different statements to the media all over the island. You want one message, and you want it repeated everywhere.

I'm sorry I won't be able to make it to the protest, but I do wish you luck in getting the message out and having a successful event.


Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
Sushi,

Sure I'll put a flyer together for those who can't make it to Victoria on May 8

First, I'll send you the Victoria literature directly by email.

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
quote:Originally posted by Governor

Sushi,

Sure I'll put a flyer together for those who can't make it to Victoria on May 8

First, I'll send you the Victoria literature directly by email.

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

Got it, thanks!

By chance, do you have a copy of the Hugh Gordon Report? I've been searching google for it, but so far, no luck.

If you or someone could point me to a link, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks, again.



Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
Thanks, I'm more than willing to help if we start targeting other areas. My boat is in Port Alberni having my second helm installed, so I'm out of commission for the moment. I liked the sound of laying out all the Key messages showing the history of this issue so we can put out the facts on allocation. Would recommend we also position our view around the need for conservation by all sectors, and what we have done to contribute (area and time closures). We also need to demonstrate clearly that the commercial fishing sector has rarely utilized their quota, instead selling off their unused quota to other fishers....and they won't sell it to the sport fishing sector...hmmm. I would be happy to take a look at your flyer and suggest friendly edits if you are looking for that.
 
quote:Originally posted by bigredsnapper

Hey Fishingbc, the date and location have been set and you have been invited to attend and show your support. If you choose not to that's fine and if you don't support the cause that's fine too. This is the first public action taken and it would be nice to coordinate with everyone Island wide and try to make everyone happy but this does not have to be a one shot deal, but a place to start. Don't forget we are all on the same team. The boys in Victoria are going ahead and any ideas on how to make work I'm sure would be gladly taken. Hey Governor I think you should contact Sushi and Searun for their input and expertise. BRS
"if you don't support the cause that's fine too."

really quite baffling how you come up with this when the constructive criticism put forth only suggests that more people get involved from all areas of the island......regardless it looks like my idea is catching on.....imagine that.....don't ever question which side I'm on....
 
Hey FBC, I can see how you got your reputation.From now on I'm stickin to talkin fishin and leavin the "politics" alone. BRS
 
Yes I agree....too bad folks don't examine the "intent" of a post as opposed to a perception. There is no question in my mind as to the intent of any posts offering some suggestions as to how to avoid a train wreck with our messaging. We are all, I believe, on the same team attempting to obtain the same result. The difference here is there are some folks offering up what I would call constructive alternatives, and others who are jumping to conclusions as to intent without closely examining the intent.

Anyone who has done any media work professionally will agree we need to be very careful about how we position our message. There is not harm in pointing out we need to be careful to position messages so we don't appear to be acting in self interest with the intent of killing every fish we can lay our hooks into....thus the need to position this as allocation inequality and a need to ensure we all contribute fairly to conservation which is the number one priority. There you go...some key messages to consider.

Hopefully we can expand the effort to other communities on the Island to help take those messages forward.
 
quote:Originally posted by bigredsnapper

Hey FBC, I can see how you got your reputation.From now on I'm stickin to talkin fishin and leavin the "politics" alone. BRS
Good idea, quite obvious you have no idea what constructive criticism is....judging by some of the other posts, having more people involved (every angler, guide, lodge, Joe public) is a good thing....your building quite the reputation for your negativity....if you think for one moment I don't support the rally in Victoria you should be posting somewhere else.....you must be part of the "OLD BLACK DOG CREW".......
 
well everyone parked at Esquimalt Anglers should have gotten some info regarding Friday....I got some on my window and seen lots all the other vehicles with flyers on their windows

I think this in an important event so I have taken Friday off and will attend...See ya guys there

THe more the better
 
quote:Originally posted by searun

Yes I agree....too bad folks don't examine the "intent" of a post as opposed to a perception. There is no question in my mind as to the intent of any posts offering some suggestions as to how to avoid a train wreck with our messaging. We are all, I believe, on the same team attempting to obtain the same result. The difference here is there are some folks offering up what I would call constructive alternatives, and others who are jumping to conclusions as to intent without closely examining the intent.

Anyone who has done any media work professionally will agree we need to be very careful about how we position our message. There is not harm in pointing out we need to be careful to position messages so we don't appear to be acting in self interest with the intent of killing every fish we can lay our hooks into....thus the need to position this as allocation inequality and a need to ensure we all contribute fairly to conservation which is the number one priority. There you go...some key messages to consider.

Hopefully we can expand the effort to other communities on the Island to help take those messages forward.

You may be right, however you should have sent your question's to Governor via e-mail before you assumed he and the group had not addressed your concerns.
They had the same concerns and addressed them.

One would hope that anyone who is thinking about having this in other areas of B.c. would contact Governor to ensure that they are getting the same message out to the press.

As of this time this has not happened by any other groups.
 
Thanks, I'm not responsible for the content of the posts made by Governor and others - so the messaging being put out there was not at all clear that there was a strong plan in place to position this as an allocation issue while also stating we are fully prepared to do our part for conservation. I don't think it is my responsibility to contact Governor directly to "check out" his intent/plans...rather, the purpose of this forum is allow those exchanges to happen so our community can explore all aspects of the issues facing our sport...or do I have to ask someone's permission to ask questions first...last time I checked we weren't living in a dictatorship where I have to ask the Great Leader for permission to think for myself. [:0]

Again, I was commenting on how the original messaging was coming across. Others might not be as sensitive to how this stuff sounds as me, but if I'm picking up on it then we might want to test it with joe public to be sure. Just trying to be helpful - even if it wasn't taken by some as such.

I'm also not wishing to be branded as anything other than being interested in conservation first, followed by ensuring proper and fair allocation between user groups as a secondary issue. If that's considered to be a negative attitude to those organizing the event, then I definitely do not want to be associated to this initiative in any way....and stand behind my earlier concerns that this "protest" has potential to hurt the sportfishing community's reputation around this issue unless significantly modified to place conservation as it's first objective.:(
 
That pretty much hits it on the head guys.

I am all up for dragging my boat down town. It's about time we show our strength! I just want to ensure the message I support is for the good of the stocks and the longevity of our sport. For us now and ever for our young.

Screaming for our share is a fine line that a few are only pointing out here.

We are all on the same team. Lets keep this productive.

HL
 
This is great, I was just at my grandfathers for dinner! and hes doesent have a computer and he ended up with a flyer, and he will be in attendance on friday! I think this will be a bigger turn out then i expected in the begining. I hope this has some positive effects!

-Steve
 
Searun, this was never about conservation, it is about allocation.


DFO has really created one big halibut mess


By D.C. Reid, Times ColonistDecember 11, 2008

You will recall the DFO giving the public's halibut to commercial interests for zero dollars by creating individual vessel quotas. And you may remember the sector, just like an oil cartel, rationalized the 435 quota boats to only 214, with half of those, now choosing not to fish, but lease their quotas for six figure amounts and spend the winter in Hawaii.

There were two studies along the way: One, an economist's view on what the public should receive of its own fish, and another that simply picked up its suggestion: 12 per cent. Neither was a scientific study, but this did not stop the DFO capping the public's catch. They did this even in the face of figures of 20 per cent for the public in Alaska and 36 per cent in Washington state.

Then the Ottawa mandarins figured if the sport sector ever got to 12 per cent we could lease unused commercial quota through a 'market mechanism', something that works for economists at desks but is next to impossible to translate into real fish in a real world. Who, for example, gets to hold the dollars? Then minister Robert Thibault, stated in 2003: "I have also made a commitment that there be will be no closure of the sport fishery in-season."

Now, what you don't know: Ottawa used the dressed halibut size of about 25 pounds to compute the public number, added in the amount of halibut taken by Americans, illegally, on Swiftsure Bank, and landed in Neah Bay, and that put us near the 12 per-cent ceiling. Sport fishermen complained and with southern creel survey data, this was reduced to 12- to 15-pounds dressed, meaning we could catch a few more.

Three summers ago, the DFO instituted creel surveys in northern B.C. They found, not surprisingly, that when they added those numbers to the southern data that sporties were over 12 per cent, and we had to buy some of our fish back from the commercial sector, who had, in the interim, put money aside to deal with such an issue.

In 2008, the Hugh Gordon report hammered out an agreement among the sport, commercial, First Nations, provincial and federal stakeholders. Prominent features were a share of 20 per cent for the public and excess quota purchased by DFO, with recovery from increased licences. Before the paper made it to the minister, David Bevan, ADM, rejected the report.

Some quota was leased this past summer -- $3.50 to $5 per pound -- to meet the inflated catch statistics, but when talk moved to purchasing quota, the sector high-balled the value to $37 to $60 dollars, effectively killing a long-term possibility of buying quota and leasing it back to the commercial sector when not used. And it makes a lot of dollars and sense to the province for sporties to catch more fish because the value is $18.63 per pound for public-caught fish; it is $3.60 for commercial caught. And, get this, the commercial sector, wouldn't 'pay' any more money to us unless the public agreed to fishing in a prescribed way. Not surprisingly, the sport negotiators got up and walked out on this completely un-market mechanism.

Then, the DFO, reneged on Thibault's promise by closing, for the first time, sport halibut from the end of October through November, December, adding the month of January, closed for some years now, and probably the month of February, too, when, no doubt, they will allow one week later, a long liner to commercial fish off Victoria.

But wait, there's more. Two recent federal Supreme Court rulings -- Saulnier, and Comeau Sea Foods -- found there is no legal underpinning for commercial individual vessel quotas -- the practice that has resulted in all the problems. So, can the public get any of our own fish back? Sure, but we have to take the DFO to court, because they know they don't have to change anything if no one makes them. How much will this cost? About $5 million. Where will it come from? Good question, but doesn't this convoluted situation make you lose respect for DFO?
 
Searun, I am sure you are involved in or with one of these groups?
I would think they advised you of this for your input?


The Southern Vancouver Island Anglers Coalition is an ad hoc group that represents the rights of Vancouver Island's tidal waters anglers, sportfishing and outdoor clubs, angling guides, charters operators and all the businesses who provide service to the angling public. The group formed in February 2009 specifically to resolve the allocation injustice through education and action. Canada's common property resources, such as halibut belong to ALL Canadians, the Coalition want to ensure your proper access.
 
Good idea, quite obvious you have no idea what constructive criticism is....judging by some of the other posts, having more people involved (every angler, guide, lodge, Joe public) is a good thing....your building quite the reputation for your negativity....if you think for one moment I don't support the rally in Victoria you should be posting somewhere else.....you must be part of the "OLD BLACK DOG CREW".......
---------------------------------------------------------------------
FishingBC, I find it difficult to believe that you were unaware of this, with all your contacts in the guiding business?


The Southern Vancouver Island Anglers Coalition is an ad hoc group that represents the rights of Vancouver Island's tidal waters anglers, sportfishing and outdoor clubs, angling guides, charters operators and all the businesses who provide service to the angling public. The group formed in February 2009 specifically to resolve the allocation injustice through education and action. Canada's common property resources, such as halibut belong to ALL Canadians, the Coalition want to ensure your proper access.
 
Hey Searun:

conservation first .... always

The International Pacific Halibut Commission states the catchable halibut each year for the ALL fisheries from Alaska, Canada, Washington and Oregon. They make scientific calculations to avoid over harvesting and set conservative Total Catch amounts. They have done this successfully for many decades.

For 2009 IHPC Catchable Data ...
North Pacific Catchable Total (Alaska, Cda and USA)= 54,000,000 lbs
Canadian Waters (Canada's TAC) = 7,630,000 lbs
88% Commercial Catch allocation in Cda = 6,700,000 lbs

The Coalition is NOT advocating Canada exceeds its TAC so anglers can catch more fish!</u> No, the Coalition wants DFO to get a miniscule 500,000 lbs returned to us or re-allocated from Cdn Commercial Quota Holders (who have this misconception they own the Cda's halibut). This way the Public Fishery can return to a full annual season 11 months at normal limits 2/3 as it should be.

IT IS REALLY NOT ABOUT CONSERVATION! Especially when 54,000,000 lbs is being sucked out of the North Pacific plus another 10,000,000 lbs is being caught as disgarded bycatch in the Alaska Hake fleet nets and we only want a measily 500,000 lbs from another sector to have our historic fishery back.

It is ALL ABOUT ALLOCATION

Your earlier posts of constructive advice sadly came across as arrogant to many and your conclusions from an uninformed position were not helpful either. Perhaps asking how you could assist in helping craft the right message would serve better in future.

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
A question to you Govonor! Me my grandfather and My Dad, are all anglers of victoria! We all want to stand for what is ours! What do you suggest we without our boats there should do! it will look silly if we are driving along in our cars! looking out of place? Anything would help! as i will be there! And where do we meet? and what time? i seem to not be able to locate the initial info on this event!

-Thanks! STEVE!!!!!
 
Back
Top