To fluorocarbon or not to fluorocarbon thats the ?

[SIR]

My favourite flasher setup is my main braided line down to a small in-line swivel where I convert to an 8 inch piece of 70# mono, to another in-line swivel, where I convert to 10' of 40# mono, to the swivel on my flasher. Behind the flasher I have either 1) a swivel with 3-5' of 40# mono to a spoon or 2) flasher direct to 28-36" of 40# mono to a hootchie. FYI - The 8 inch strip of 70# is where I clip my downrigger release, the reason I hardset to such a short distance between the downrigger clip and the flasher is I am fishing deep and trying to stay very tight to the bottom, and the reason I use really small (but really expensive) inline swivels is so the guests can reel them throught the guides meaning I have less line running all over the boat during landings.

So what I've been thinking about trying this year is converting either the flasher back to fluorocarbon or the 70# back.... Anyone played with flourocarbon leaders enough to have an opinion on if it's worth the $$$

I'm always willing to enhance my knowledge using someone elses pocketbook

Was it ever a nice day on the Sunshine Coast today!!!! Sunshine..... no wind..... mill pond water..... alas tonight back to 35 knots and big moguls all over the water

 

[blueorca]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I count no less than 7 knots in your setup.
Seeing that knots are going to be your weakest link , bearing in mind that the best knot is about 90 percent of the strength of the line, why would you increase the chances of failure?
Not saying you ever have breaks, but I need to understand why run braid and then have to modify it to run off the downrigger.
Not a big fan of braid for Salmon either, as I like to have that stretch that mono has as a shock absorber (like your rod tip).
Having all the shock absorbed by a couple short lengths of mono puts alot of strain on the knots too, IMHO.
FYI I use three knots with flasher set ups.
I wait with Baited breath for your an sir.

 

[scott craven]

i agree blue, knots are the weak link in the system, no matter
how well you tie them.
i run 25 lb mono to a good bead chain swivel, then my flasher
and 40lb leader to the lure.
i feel the least number of joints between main line and lure,
the better !

 

[wolf]

OUCH cant imagine running a swival through my loomis rods I am sorry to say that is a weird set up to me i know the whole braided to non braided debate but I still like mono for salmon always will and will never change like blueorca said I too like the stretch in the line we are dealing with clients that only fish on a yearly basis and there not quick enough to "let it run" plus I change my mono line every month when I salmon fish I just put a lot of backing on every reel as then I dont use a lot on mono every time.

now in saying that I have tried the flourocarbon and didnt really like it the way it frays as you tie the knot really worried me found it weird to use didnt like the feel of it I guess i am a bit of a tradionalist in that way like the good ol mono been around for a lot of year WHY change


Wolf

 

[SIR]

Knots are only a problem if you don't tie/test them well. Fear not the well tied/tested knot!!!

I've had nothing but problems trying to clip onto braided even with the variable tension Scotty releases. The line is just too thin of a diameter and too slippery so the thicker piece of 70# mono drastically reduces my false releases due to the weed and jelly fish between all the islands around here. In lat august you can almost walk from island to island on the backs of lion's manes. With this setup I drag anything less than 10 pounds and almost never get a false release (I can see a dragged fish from rod tip bounce). I could run 70# to the flasher but am a little concerned about running rope equivelent out to my flasher, the water is stained but they can't be THAT blind so I switch back to 40 for that run out to the flasher and the back side. I've only had one tackle loss in the three years I've been rigging this way and it failed on the braided so I suspect I had an abraided section of main line as opposed to a knot failure.

I like braided as you really feel the fish. I give all my guests the rod tip up/shock absorber speech on the way out which is critical with this setup. This also lets me use the same rods for snapper/cod as I don't have that much space on my boat.

I'm actually not all that serious about fluorocarbon as I think it would take away from my hootchie action but it might be good for spoons and the braided to flasher segment so I wanted to see if anyone had played with the newer thicker diameter lines since the old post in the archive. After seeing the thickness of the line that the commercial guys use I almost beleive you can catch salmon on just about anything less than 1/4" poly.

Go ahead, laugh at the number of knots I use, I knew it was coming But I tie an awesome knot [8D] and so far the setup has been producing for me.

 

[Last Chance]

Flouro tends to fray a bit much for my liking.

 

[SIR]

So the survery seems to say knot to fluoro

With a general disdain for my setup from the traditionalists in the crowd [:0]

Ah well, time to slink off to watch the idot box....

Thanks for the input on the fluoro!

 

[blueorca]

I'm not laughing, just curious.
As for clipping with braid, how about this for a solution.
It's called a D loop and I have used this with my hunting bow.
http://www.quicksarchery.co.uk/superbasket/product.php?product=1127
Using some mono, you could tie a d-loop onto the braid and then the release clip would attach onto the mono like normal.
Just make sure the mono is light enough so the knots won't get caught up on the guides when you reel in.

 

[SIR]

Hmmm, I can't quite make out from the picture how that d-loop works but it seems to be a piece that the main line passes thru that acts as a spreader to keep the two ends of the D loop from cinching in. I'm picturing something like the plastic scotty clips used to trigger the auto-off on an electric retrieve??? I googled D-loop but couldn't find a better picture/description. I like the idea of being able to run the braided straight to the flasher but am not sure if the piece plus the mono would run thru the guides.... The current in-line swivels I have are tiny titanium bars with an internal swivel mechanism and one hole on each end so they pass very easily and don't chew up my guides. The knots are actually a wider diameter than the swivels. I'm going to dig around for some better info on D loops. Thanks for the new idea!

 

[Ian]

Just a couple of thoughts....

small diameter shrink wrap, shirink it with boiling water to not harm your braid. Haven't ever tried it, just a thought..

Also, with all this talk of knots, shock absorption etc, does anyone use bimini twists in their set up? Wicked knots, very high strength and built in shock absorbers.

Very best,

Ian

 

[SIR]

I like that one even better. I played around with some narrow diameter rubber tubbing but it slide around too much. Not sure if I can find narrow enough gauge shrink wrap but I could stuff it with a narrow strip of rubber band....

Now I have something to do tomorrow while hiding from the wind.

An excellent idea! Let's see if it works in practice....

 

[Eagle Eyes]

havent posted in a long time but seeing as i used both flouro for leader, and braided for mainline (guiding all summer out of quatsino)i guess i should share my experience with you.

1- braided is awesome! you just need people who have a slight clue on when to let a fish run, and soft enough rods to abosrb some shock. with me very commonly trolling over 200 feet, the mono stretch just does not cut the mustard. plus braided can get wrapped around riggers, kelp etc and not snap like mono. go with fireline, 30 pound.

2- flouro is great for leader. i tried it with my hootchies along with the boss and our catch rates immediatley went up. our other 3 guides switched over and they soon were back near the top of the pack. go with maxima flouro. not cheap. 40 pound.

 

[fishin_magician]

I'm thinking a simple set up is exactly where you want to be, meaning, a swivel or two, and that's about it. 25 lb test mono is more than sufficient as mainline.

I've got plenty of horror stories to share with braided stuff, and I love to tell a couple of stories about how braided toasted a guys reel, and another time--- screwed up a chance at a clean mid forties trophy when it fouled up on a drag adjustment on his levelwind.

Some of these set ups sound WAY too complicated to be efficient out on the water--particularly if you get a tangle for whatever reason,(may happen when fishing 4 to 6 rods from time to time), moochers long lining with 4 oz weights and 60 pulls out in 3 knot current or some other issue/situation which arises.


I'll stick with the mono and simplicity thank you very much. Can't say I've ever lost a fish where it wasn't something that could have been avoided.

 

[wolf]

I cant believe I am accually going to say this but I totally agree with FM on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL LOL

The problem with fishing now every one is trying to re invent the wheel did we have all this weird stuff 10 years ago NO use the K.I.S.S. is what I always say sorry but that is way too complacated and time consuming for me.



Wolf

 

[Dirtdog67]

40# this 70# that, where the tag goes through here and the flasher there.. Honestly does it take that much science now adays to catch fish or am I just a little to traditional. It's all in the know how.-dirty

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

I cant believe I am accually going to say this but I totally agree with FM on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL LOL

The problem with fishing now every one is trying to re invent the wheel did we have all this weird stuff 10 years ago NO use the K.I.S.S. is what I always say sorry but that is way too complacated and time consuming for me.
Wolf

It's a miracle...Wolf and I actually had the same opinion.....LOL...now back to debating and arguing...until next time we agree...LOL...

do not adjust your set...

A very wise fisherman I know used to say...if you're trying to build a better mousetrap, you better be really really smart, either that..or you're not catching many fish with the tried 'n true methods.

This is where I take my shot at Baitrix, fireline, braided, Firefish lures...etc etc etc etc etc..

 

[wolf]

SIR I was thinking about your system and was wondering why you just dont run a tag of about 15 to 20 ft of say 50 lb test line off of your braided to your flasher?still dont understand the reason of 70 lb test for your downrigger clip??? in winter I am down sometime 200 ft and with only 25lb test and the clips hold the line just fine.

Just trying to figure out why you have so many knots and different lines????

As for keeping gear close to the bottom it doesnt matter if you peg it 10 ft from the cannon ball or 40 ft from the cannon ball it will still be at the same depth whatever your cannon ball is sometimes deeper I personally like it back about20 to 30 ft just in case I do bounce a reef I can hit the switch and get the gear up so I dont get snagged.


Good luck Wolf


P.S. FM you own optis too so you cant be all that bad LOL

 

[5-Salt Fever]

Love Seagar Flouro - any test.

Lately I have been running a 50-100yd Flouro Top-Shot albrighted to the braided line. I tie the top shot directly to flasher/diver/sinker. 30-50lb Seagar Fluro for top shot and 20-40lb Seagar Fluoro for leader. Fluoro is good a stiff and gives hoochie/spoons/cut-plug lively action off the flasher.

Top-shot gives advantages of braided line, stealth of Fluro and the stretch that braided does not. The Albright knot goes through the guides like butter even when casting. I only blew out one top shot knot last summer on 114 Tuna and 58 Salmom caught - the Flouro broke right at the knot while really reefing the drag down on a big albacore (On the troll we after first hookup we reef the drag and continue trolling to get doubles, triples, and quad hook ups...6-7mph troll speed reallty puts a lot of strain on your knots).

Try it - I think you will like.

Albright
http://www.marlinnut.com/knots/albright.shtml

 

[SIR]

Thanks Salt - I was nervous about trying a braided to mono knot as I thought the braided would slice thru the mono under load. If it can take tuna salmon should be no problem.

I think I'm going to experiment with your setup. Trying to rig a thickening of the braided for the clip with dloops or shrink is going to be finicky and time consuming on board if I need to re-rig. Just special ordered some Maxima fluoro as it was a little la-ti-da for our local tackle shop Only four knots this way so Blue, FM and Wolf are gunna be happier

I'll fish the braided albrighted to fluoro setup for a while and report back to the board. Now's my time of year for experimentation before the paying guests show up. Haven't managed to get out to test the Kone flashers yet either, too damn much wind, good bite this Wednesday.... if the weather co-operates.....

Thanks again for all the ideas guys.

Ian - Sevilla Island Resort - SIR

 

[blueorca]

Hey, I'm happy if anyone gets out to fish.
Let us know how you like the Kone units.
Take a poll on twenty fisherman get twenty different ways to catch the same fish.