IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
You are completely off your rocker with both that statement, and any belief anything of the sort would EVER happen.
Really.
Nog
Tell Them No More Further Chinook Restrictions
- Thread starter SerengetiGuide
- Start date
You are completely off your rocker with both that statement, and any belief anything of the sort would EVER happen.
Really.
Nog
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Did it not happen last year? Thought I read there was a reallocation of about 5 k unused that was from rec quota to area g.
wolf
Well-Known Member
Look VERY closely how the notice that came out a few days ago and how its worded, im very concerned about june and july fishing i have a very bad feeling about the way they have worded it ... im warning you know some heavy **** is coming down...
searun
Well-Known Member
well, that is where data will help....except for those areas that don't have it. No data = impossible to make an argument for a particular area having a clean fishery (as in no or limited incidents of Fraser stocks in the fishery). The whole reason the inside waters of WCVI out 1 nm were no change in regulations is....data.
Lucky#7
New Member
Not so much a political guy but came across this website where the Campbell River NDP MP is supporting hatchery marked chinook fishing for recreational anglers. https://rachelblaney.ndp.ca/news/mp-blaney-calls-support-coastal-fishing-communities. Signed the petition but then realized she is talking about adipose fin clipping on chinook for the future - for those more in the know, isn't this happening already - i.e. all hatchery coho and chinook are already 'fin-clipped'? Anyway, hoping everybody is willing to put the pressure on in their own way to at least open up retention of hatchery chinook. Catch and release is just not quite the same...
Doug
Well-Known Member
The problem is not the data which showing where the fish are traveling. Area 19 and 20 have be shut downs because of FN issues and at their request. Now everyone is being effect by shut downs due to lack of fish returning and spawning.
I have the Nov 8, 2019 Stock Assessment report for the West Coast of Van Island and Strait of Georgia fish returns to creeks and rivers. It was provided to me from a person who has worked in the salmon hatchery system on Vancouver Island for over 25 years. He has concerns and he doesn't work for DFO. It is not looking good. I just do not know how to post the reports on the form. The latest forecast for 2020 is now calling for the same returns as 2019.
Here is one example from a river we all know, the Nitinat:
Spring 2019 return = 6,320. 4 yr. average = 15,280. Down 8950 fish. -59%
Coho 2019 return = 384. 4 year average = 2,410. Down 2,026. -84%
Chum 2019 return = 14,791. 4 year average = 239,370. Down 224,579. -94%
What do you thing the returns will be in another 4 years with this cycle of returns being low.
This is just one of the rivers on the report and most of the other rivers and creeks are also not look good. I can confirm the creek I support, has a fish box and the count is done by hand and that creek’s numbers are correct on the report.
I provided Spring Velocity the DFO reports and probably SV knows how to post it.
I also keep hearing that it was the best spring fishing in 2019 and I agree everyone caught fish. But not many fish made it back to the rivers and creeks on the stock assessment reports. Hopefully the other rivers and creeks had good returns.
I have the Nov 8, 2019 Stock Assessment report for the West Coast of Van Island and Strait of Georgia fish returns to creeks and rivers. It was provided to me from a person who has worked in the salmon hatchery system on Vancouver Island for over 25 years. He has concerns and he doesn't work for DFO. It is not looking good. I just do not know how to post the reports on the form. The latest forecast for 2020 is now calling for the same returns as 2019.
Here is one example from a river we all know, the Nitinat:
Spring 2019 return = 6,320. 4 yr. average = 15,280. Down 8950 fish. -59%
Coho 2019 return = 384. 4 year average = 2,410. Down 2,026. -84%
Chum 2019 return = 14,791. 4 year average = 239,370. Down 224,579. -94%
What do you thing the returns will be in another 4 years with this cycle of returns being low.
This is just one of the rivers on the report and most of the other rivers and creeks are also not look good. I can confirm the creek I support, has a fish box and the count is done by hand and that creek’s numbers are correct on the report.
I provided Spring Velocity the DFO reports and probably SV knows how to post it.
I also keep hearing that it was the best spring fishing in 2019 and I agree everyone caught fish. But not many fish made it back to the rivers and creeks on the stock assessment reports. Hopefully the other rivers and creeks had good returns.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
just sent you email.
searun
Well-Known Member
Careful not to take one stock as representative of what is happening everywhere. There are lots of stocks that are doing very well for a variety of reasons. Cowichan comes to mind...big recovery from just 900 adult Chinook to over 25,000. Stamp/Somas was 130,000 last year, and same forecast this year with greater proportion of fish returning as 4 year olds. Thompson 4(1) stocks were huge last year. It's not all doom and gloom.
wolf
Well-Known Member
I was digging into the last time I did it all out of close samples I personally sent in
Green River "Fall Run"
Green River "Fall Run"
N/A
Soos Creek Hatchery
Snohomish River
South Thompson River
South Thompson River
Cowichan River
South Thompson River
Northern Washington
Green River "Fall Run"
Soos Creek Hatchery
Puntledge River "Fall Run"
Lower Shuswap River
Endako River
Holmes Creek
Holmes Creek
Chilko River
Green River "Fall Run"
Spring Creek
Nooksack River
Kendall Creek Hatchery
Clearwater River
N/A
N/A
Snohomish River
McGregor River
Soos Creek Hatchery
Soos Creek Hatchery
Gold River
Similkameen River
Snohomish River
Soos Creek Hatchery
this was for 3 months lots of american fish there and thats when we could keep a fish under under 85 and then july 15 any size FYI so you see when we can fish we can do data my question WHY isnt it being used .... I know you like to preach the book Pat do you not see why this is so frustrating to us in area 19/20
Green River "Fall Run"
Green River "Fall Run"
N/A
Soos Creek Hatchery
Snohomish River
South Thompson River
South Thompson River
Cowichan River
South Thompson River
Northern Washington
Green River "Fall Run"
Soos Creek Hatchery
Puntledge River "Fall Run"
Lower Shuswap River
Endako River
Holmes Creek
Holmes Creek
Chilko River
Green River "Fall Run"
Spring Creek
Nooksack River
Kendall Creek Hatchery
Clearwater River
N/A
N/A
Snohomish River
McGregor River
Soos Creek Hatchery
Soos Creek Hatchery
Gold River
Similkameen River
Snohomish River
Soos Creek Hatchery
this was for 3 months lots of american fish there and thats when we could keep a fish under under 85 and then july 15 any size FYI so you see when we can fish we can do data my question WHY isnt it being used .... I know you like to preach the book Pat do you not see why this is so frustrating to us in area 19/20
searun
Well-Known Member
All I'm saying is your data is highly valuable for objectively assessing fishery related impacts and stock composition. How DFO fisheries management chooses to use the data however is alway up for debate. Aggregating 25 years of data to show there are a small number of "hits" and using that as some sort of science proxy for removals is a **** poor approach to assessment of the actual biological relevance of fishery removals. So having the data is one thing, holding DFO accountable to develop improved "management approaches" is another. We may be saying the same thing, but in different ways....data isn't the enemy, how people choose to use it is something completely different.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
I am just posting this up for Doug as he asked me for this discussion.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
more DFO lies?
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=225156&ID=all
"Preliminary review of the August recreational creel survey data suggests the
AABM Chinook recreational catch will be less than 40,000. Therefore, the target
for this Area G troll opening has been increased from 5,900 to 8,900. The Area
G catch estimate for this opening, including up to September 4, is 3,100
Chinook.
Effective 00:01 hours September 6, 2019 and until further notice, the Area G
Chinook plug fishery is open in the following areas:"
Doug
Well-Known Member
How about the Strait of Georgia report
searun
Well-Known Member
Not so sure your list there is so American.....There also appear to be BC Chinook stocks on that list that COSEWIC listed as Threatened or Endangered....I made a few margin notes above in your list for reference.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
sorry
wolf
Well-Known Member
WOW so a very low percentage are Canadian fish ...thats really not enough when they put a net across the river and scoop more then just one fish, So i have to ask where the fish are in the ocean as you can see by MY results its say a "bit watered down" as you never know what river systen that said fish you catch is from.
From the 6800 that I posted again low percent of fish being Canadian as well you know it we all see the "pie" charts... when is going to be enough SCIENCE BASED to say ok im sure they must have over 30,000 samples by now....
Here is something for you when certain user group put a net across the Fraser river how many SOOS creek fish or Green,nooksack,snohomish, river do they get???
Im wondering whos side you guys are on the fishermen or DFOs ?????
One final note since area 19/20 gets hammered on so much and they close it but leave it open for the whole west coast to hammer on or is it they fly from the north and only land into the ocean at say maybe sombrio and land where then they swim....to the river???? Im am sure glad the US produces and actually works hard then we do to put fish into the systems we are trying in sooke with our net pen project ...
Like the title say when are we going to say ENOUGH already. I remembered a meeting once that I was in the late 80s with Bob wright and DFO Bob got so mad he slammed his fist down on the table they really took notice then and backed off... sure we still had him here
things that make you go HHHHHMMMMMMM
From the 6800 that I posted again low percent of fish being Canadian as well you know it we all see the "pie" charts... when is going to be enough SCIENCE BASED to say ok im sure they must have over 30,000 samples by now....
Here is something for you when certain user group put a net across the Fraser river how many SOOS creek fish or Green,nooksack,snohomish, river do they get???
Im wondering whos side you guys are on the fishermen or DFOs ?????
One final note since area 19/20 gets hammered on so much and they close it but leave it open for the whole west coast to hammer on or is it they fly from the north and only land into the ocean at say maybe sombrio and land where then they swim....to the river???? Im am sure glad the US produces and actually works hard then we do to put fish into the systems we are trying in sooke with our net pen project ...
Like the title say when are we going to say ENOUGH already. I remembered a meeting once that I was in the late 80s with Bob wright and DFO Bob got so mad he slammed his fist down on the table they really took notice then and backed off... sure we still had him here
things that make you go HHHHHMMMMMMM
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SpringVelocity
Crew Member
No one is disputing if shouldn't be opened to marked fish. But you say you don't have an impact but your data shows the stocks. We all know the nets in river are an issue that is not a dispute. But where do we go from here Roy? If we just complain and stop taking data how can we get that area opened again? Have to try. I want it open and too move forward. What happened years ago was ****** but its time to just move on. This problem is going to be with us for a very long time.
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Cuba Libre
Well-Known Member
Wolf-- the other guy that went all out for us too was Bill Otway. He had a mind like a computer when it came to defending our rights as rec fishers. I miss that old cranky bugger.
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searun
Well-Known Member
Well looking at your list of samples, most of the Canadian fish in that data set appear to be from Fraser system stocks of concern (7 out of 30 samples or 23%). Perhaps its bad luck and a low number of samples, which is why we keep stressing people really need to be participating in turning in hatchery heads, providing DNA and also doing logbooks. A few of the wrong stocks in a small data set spell trouble, so more data is better.
MadJigga
Well-Known Member
I’m a lamen here. So bear with me. If the only Chinook we can retain now is in August, how will the head recovery program help in reopening closed areas? If the stocks of concern are already up the river and hopefully not in a gill net! Or is the battle presenting older info that maybe wasn’t are part of their current data?
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