Something Wicked This Way Comes - ON THE LINE

Agreed there Gunsmith, what I also find troubling is how much condensate the tarsands need now and into the future.
Makes you wonder why they don't just upgrade it onsite and ship it east.

So true. To ship bitumen by pipeline a thinner is needed to pump it whether it be diesel,condensate,or naptha. All are hazzardous materials.
If cracked and upgraded close to the mine the product is pumpable without any thinner. To do that more energy is used as the climate extremes are greater than if in the south. The wages paid here are also higher, close to triple.
When the work is done in Canda more money stays in country as in wages taxes and other supportive industries involved. The feds getting more taxes can spread the wealth by contributing $34 million to the lexus hybrid plant in Ontario.
When processed in place the volumes shipped are reduced by at least not having to ship the diluant back, anywhere from 30-50% of the volume. So down goes the risk somewhat.
Due to pipeline restrictions the bitumen sent south is sold at a considerably lower price as those processing own pipeline space
and have control over whose oil gets shipped. They pay us $30-40 less per bbl than texas bench crude which is around $96. but product is sold per value of $96. per bbl. Nice chunk of change eh? Keystone not good for these owners but good for oilsand companies and fed and provincial govts. Gateway not really good for BC or these southern producers but good for Fed and Alberta govts.
Lots more but can you see how some of this picture comes together?
 
It should without a doubt be upgraded in this country and the jobs should stay here. One issue is lack of skilled trades people here to do this and the other seems to be wages.. cheaper to upgrade in china than here. I think we need to make a stand here and get the upgrading done in this country. Everyone will benefit from that.
 
It should without a doubt be upgraded in this country and the jobs should stay here. One issue is lack of skilled trades people here to do this and the other seems to be wages.. cheaper to upgrade in china than here. I think we need to make a stand here and get the upgrading done in this country. Everyone will benefit from that.

We have some of the most skilled tradespeople in the world here. We have the schooling already in place. We have the students. It all comes down to the almighty buck.
 
We have some of the most skilled tradespeople in the world here. We have the schooling already in place. We have the students. It all comes down to the almighty buck.

Exactly!
Our Trade schools are second to none!
I've had to use TFO (temporary foreign workers) from many countries, mostly welders, not one group has the skill set that our own Canadian welders exhibit!!
 
The big problem is the companies that own the mining rights.... It's not just a few dudes trying to run a vacuum over the Alaskan gulf floor looking for gold.
 
Oh those poor tar sands companies. Makes you want to cry.....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/02/01/business-kearl-.html

The first phase of Imperial Oil Ltd.'s Kearl oilsands mine will cost $2 billion more than previously expected as the company faced issues transporting Korean-made modules to the mine site in northern Alberta and contended with harsh weather during startup.

The first 110,000-barrel-per-day phase will now cost $12.9 billion, up from a previous estimate of $10.9 billion.
Taking into account a second $8.9-billion phase in the works, the whole development is expected to have a cost of $6.80 per barrel, up 10 per cent from a prior estimate of $6.20.

When the Calgary-based firm announced in 2009 that it would build the Kearl mine, it expected three phases of roughly the same size. Later, it decided to build the mine in two phases, with smaller projects along the way to boost output in increments.

Multiple delays

Imperial faced legal and regulatory delays in bringing enormous pieces of equipment to the mine site, which were shipped across the Pacific and then through the United States and Canada by river barge and truck.

The 200 modules had to be broken up into smaller pieces so that they could be transported along interstate highways and then put together again near Edmonton.
"This was an enormous work effort... involving hundreds of workers for more than a year," said Imperial spokesman Pius Rolheiser.

Imperial rejigged the order in which the work was conducted so that it could begin to bring Kearl on stream in late 2012, as scheduled. First production of mined diluted bitumen is expected this quarter.

But that meant commissioning and startup activity timelines were "compressed" and had to take place during harsh winter weather.
"We've been dealing with minus-40 weather at times and that necessarily has an impact from a safety perspective on how employees can work," said Rolheiser.
Despite the challenges, Kearl remains a "very, very attractive project" that will produce oil for four or five decades, Rolheiser said.
The cost estimate of the second phase remains at $8.9 billion and is not at risk of being jacked up by the same factors that affected the first.
"With the exception of that one unnecessary external factor — the module transportation delays, which couldn't have been anticipated and over which we had no control — the execution of the Kearl initial development was exemplary from a productivity standpoint, most importantly form a safety standpoint," said Rolheiser.

Profits up

Also Friday, Imperial reported a seven per cent increase in net income in the fourth quarter as lower expenses more than offset a decrease in revenue.

Imperial, a publicly traded subsidiary of Houston energy heavyweight ExxonMobil Corp. (NYSE:XOM), said net income in the last three months of 2012 was $1.07 billion or $1.26 per share, above 2011's $1.01 billion, or $1.18 per share.

It also handily beat analysts estimates of 99 cents per share, according to Thomson Reuters.

Revenue fell to $7.8 billion from $8.1 billion, in line with estimates. However, expenses also dropped to $6.39 billion from $6.86 billion.
In mid-day on the Toronto Stock Exchange, Imperial shares were up 21 cents at $44.01.

Wonder why this plant had to be made in Korea and not made in Canada.
Wonder if it's the Job.. Jobs ... Jobs the government is talking about. To bad the "Jobs" are in another country..... Strip and ship and get the tools to do it from offshore and don't forget to hire the labour from China..... Sad what this country is looking like and the greed of our "leaders"
 
There would be no interest if there was not money to be made, and the less they have to share the better for them.

the pipeline will only employ 40-50 people , it will take 10 yrs to make 1/2 billion dollars.
but Christie Clark issists on cutting tax breaks for the film biz that makes over 1 billion a yr. for this province and does not take trees, fish , oil etc. it only takes pictures.
A clean industry and she is/has destroyed it. 3 big feature films over 450 million dollars walked away last month.
yes Something very stupid and evil happening all up and down the Political chain. We need a complete over haul.
 
You want to watch this closely, right now China is buying a lot of forest products from BC, they are also interested in the pipeline as it will move "their oil" produced at Nexen, that they will soon officially own. Watch if they are not putting pressure on the BC government about this.

the pipeline will only employ 40-50 people , it will take 10 yrs to make 1/2 billion dollars.
but Christie Clark issists on cutting tax breaks for the film biz that makes over 1 billion a yr. for this province and does not take trees, fish , oil etc. it only takes pictures.
A clean industry and she is/has destroyed it. 3 big feature films over 450 million dollars walked away last month.
yes Something very stupid and evil happening all up and down the Political chain. We need a complete over haul.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/11/opinion/when-to-say-no-to-the-keystone-xl.html?_r=1&

The State Department’s latest environmental assessment of the controversial Keystone XL oil pipeline makes no recommendation about whether President Obama should approve it. Here is ours. He should say no, and for one overriding reason: A president who has repeatedly identified climate change as one of humanity’s most pressing dangers cannot in good conscience approve a project that — even by the State Department’s most cautious calculations — can only add to the problem.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/11/opinion/when-to-say-no-to-the-keystone-xl.html?_r=1&

The State Department’s latest environmental assessment of the controversial Keystone XL oil pipeline makes no recommendation about whether President Obama should approve it. Here is ours. He should say no, and for one overriding reason: A president who has repeatedly identified climate change as one of humanity’s most pressing dangers cannot in good conscience approve a project that — even by the State Department’s most cautious calculations — can only add to the problem.

While I agree with this sentiment, the counter argument is that the oil will get extracted and sent someplace. To China via a pipeline to Kitimat, the U.S. via Keystone etc. So I think one has to balance the lesser of two evils. But make no mistake, unless there are HUGE political changes in both the US and Canada that oil is going into the atmosphere in the form of CO2 and it's going to start happening in the next few years.
 
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=gateway-pipeline-poses-unknown-environmental-threat

As controversy continues around the Keystone XL Pipeline that would snake through the U.S., a similar drama plays out north of the border. Canadian officials are deciding whether to green-light a pipeline that would carry a semiliquid hydrocarbon mix for 1,172 kilometers from Alberta's tar sands over the Canadian Rockies to the Pacific coast of British Columbia. Near its proposed terminus, the proposal has met with public outcry and fierce opposition from the Coastal First Nations, a coalition of indigenous tribes.
 
While I agree with this sentiment, the counter argument is that the oil will get extracted and sent someplace. To China via a pipeline to Kitimat, the U.S. via Keystone etc. So I think one has to balance the lesser of two evils. But make no mistake, unless there are HUGE political changes in both the US and Canada that oil is going into the atmosphere in the form of CO2 and it's going to start happening in the next few years.
Two entirely separate questions Seadna.
Tar sands development and sending the CO2 into the atmosphere from the resulting products (together with all the CO2 required to produce it!) is one big issue certainly. Hopefully the required political changes with be forced by accelerated ice cap collapse, rising sea levels and some really REALLY east coast big storms in the next few years. Although by then it may be too late.
The oil pipeline routes are another question entirely and make no mistake, the Northern Gateway pipeline will never be built!! The people of BC are more than 60% against it and the people are making a start this May by changing the Provincial Government....
Step 2 will be the defeat of Harper..... with repeal of some environmentally highly destructive laws to follow in due course.....
 
I believe what you are saying but I have not yet seen anybody ready to make the sacrifice required to stop this. You start your truck/suv and hook up the boat pull up to the pumps fill everything up and in reality you are feeding the beast. I am just as guilty and not trying to preach but fully realize there is another generation of consumers growing up. If we stop buying fuels the beast will back off and it makes no difference if you say you are no going to buy "Tar sands oil" as you cannot track where it is coming from. Just about every consumer item we buy Toys or whatever has come from a petroleum base. Because we consume we are driving the demand and encouraging the companies to forge on full speed ahead. I do not believe that there is anybody on this forum including myself is will to give up the luxuries we have. That means I am not ready to pedal a bike or row my fishing boat. The facts are that no matter how little we use we are still using.

Two entirely separate questions Seadna.
Tar sands development and sending the CO2 into the atmosphere from the resulting products (together with all the CO2 required to produce it!) is one big issue certainly. Hopefully the required political changes with be forced by accelerated ice cap collapse, rising sea levels and some really REALLY east coast big storms in the next few years. Although by then it may be too late.
The oil pipeline routes are another question entirely and make no mistake, the Northern Gateway pipeline will never be built!! The people of BC are more than 60% against it and the people are making a start this May by changing the Provincial Government....
Step 2 will be the defeat of Harper..... with repeal of some environmentally highly destructive laws to follow in due course.....
 
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I believe what you are saying but I have not yet seen anybody ready to make the sacrifice required to stop this. You start your truck/suv and hook up the boat pull up to the pumps fill everything up and in reality you are feeding the beast. I am just as guilty and not trying to preach but fully realize there is another generation of consumers growing up. If we stop buying fuels the beast will back off and it makes no difference if you say you are no going to buy "Tar sands oil" as you cannot track where it is coming from. Just about every consumer item we buy Toys or whatever has come from a petroleum base. Because we consume we are driving the demand and encouraging the companies to forge on full speed ahead. I do not believe that there is anybody on this forum including myself is will to give up the luxuries we have. That means I am not ready to pedal a bike or row my fishing boat. The facts are that no matter how little we use we are still using.

Amen, and every single job in this country no matter what it is is based resource extraction of one kind or another, even your pedal bike or wooden row boat.
 
I believe what you are saying but I have not yet seen anybody ready to make the sacrifice required to stop this. You start your truck/suv and hook up the boat pull up to the pumps fill everything up and in reality you are feeding the beast. I am just as guilty and not trying to preach but fully realize there is another generation of consumers growing up. If we stop buying fuels the beast will back off and it makes no difference if you say you are no going to buy "Tar sands oil" as you cannot track where it is coming from. Just about every consumer item we buy Toys or whatever has come from a petroleum base. Because we consume we are driving the demand and encouraging the companies to forge on full speed ahead. I do not believe that there is anybody on this forum including myself is will to give up the luxuries we have. That means I am not ready to pedal a bike or row my fishing boat. The facts are that no matter how little we use we are still using.

Good post Gunsmith, and you are right in many ways.

Because we as a society are not willing to make sacrifices, the change will have to be political. And that can only come when the effects of Global warming are right in our faces. Not the flooding of Bangladesh, but the flooding of New York (like the recent storm) or the entire Texas coast.

We need alternatives and at the moment all government and industry focus goes into the oil industry development, to feed the beast as you say. But if only 10 or 20% of that money went into alternative energy R&D what might be done with those energy sources? Carbon taxes (which reflect the true global "cost" of burning fossil fuels) is one way as it provides the incentive for people and industry to look for alternatives. There are many other ways but only if the political will is there.
And that can only the come when the fact that the "sky is falling" becomes so apparent, and so obviously affects everyone of us on the planet so we can no longer ignore it, that the change becomes inescapable. May be too late by then....but we shall see.
Meanwhile small pockets of people and organisations running on a shoestring are trying to make a difference, but admittedly it is a drop in the bucket. That is why we need a bigger wake up call than happened last storm season. Much bigger.....
Notwithstanding, the Northern Gateway may one day be seen as the beginning of a turnround, however small. The pipeline will not be built. Tar sands development will not be stopped by that, I understand that. But it is a start.......
 
Amen to that! Our problem is we get too soon old and too late smart.
 
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