Proper Tongue Weight

[Squire]

The half ton towing thread got me thinking about my set-up with a Tundra Crewmax towing a Campion 682 On an EZ Loader I figured the boat and trailer weighed 7200-7500 lbs so it would be closer to max than I’d be comfortable with which is why I added the airbags for a bit of extra peace of mind. When I downsized from a one-ton diesel in September I planned to mostly moor the boat anyway.
Now that I live on Southern Vancouver Island I’d like to trailer over to Barkley Sound a few times a year and thought I should verify my weight and payload combination.
I had to tow the boat to Duncan the other day to get my helm replaced and a service done so I went over the scales on the way to pick it up empty and the way back loaded. They are axle scales only and not a full platform so I weighed front and back empty then front, back and both trailer axles together loaded. The boat trailer only added 160 kg to my rear axle and some of that came off the front. I confirmed the lack of tongue weight with the fulcrum beam on a bathroom scale in the driveway. I have about 400 lbs on the tongue out of 7200 lbs total so about 5.5% tongue weight.
Everything I’ve learned about towing over the years tells me I should have 10-15% of the total boat and trailer weight on the tongue for safe, stable towing. This probably explains why I can fell every bounce in the trailer with a corresponding ’lurch’ of the truck.
I believe the bracket with outboards puts too much of the weight rear of the axles for safe towing of any distance. I have confirmed over the scales that the CoG is just about centered between the axles and should be moved forward at least a foot to provide a safe tongue weight. Unfortunately, I don’t have that much room on the trailer as the bowsprit is almost all the way forward as it is. (Bowsprit to back of outboard cowling measures 28’2” with motor down)
Total weight confirmed at 7200 lbs less 1500 lbs for the trailer makes the boat 5700 lbs with a half tank of fuel and most of my gear in the garage. The sticker on the trailer says it’s rated for 5800 lbs.
Am I looking at needing a new trailer? I can’t believe how many things I’ve purchased in the last ten years that needed mods over factory before they were safe or suitable for the purpose they were intended

 

[Pineapple Express]

Looks like your trailer axles are secured to the frame with U-bolts. Maybe start by shifting the axles aft a ways (hopefully the brake lines have enough slack)

 

[turbomack]

A proper tongue weight scale is a pretty good investment . It is in my mind crucial to know how much force you are putting on the truck. The correct balance can often be obtained by moving items in the vessel to get where you need to be. I bought one on Amazon and use it often.

 

[23Hourston]

First…Are you able to control the brakes from the cab of the truck.

 

[Squire]

Looks like your trailer axles are secured to the frame with U-bolts. Maybe start by shifting the axles aft a ways (hopefully the brake lines have enough slack)

Those are just for the fenders. The axles are secured to brackets welded under the frame. There is a bit of slack in the wires (electric brakes) but I'd have to drill new holes in the brackets to move the axles back.

 

[Squire]

First…Are you able to control the brakes from the cab of the truck.

Yes, I have a brake controller.

 

[Explorer682]

The half ton towing thread got me thinking about my set-up with a Tundra Crewmax towing a Campion 682 On an EZ Loader I figured the boat and trailer weighed 7200-7500 lbs so it would be closer to max than I’d be comfortable with which is why I added the airbags for a bit of extra peace of mind. When I downsized from a one-ton diesel in September I planned to mostly moor the boat anyway.
Now that I live on Southern Vancouver Island I’d like to trailer over to Barkley Sound a few times a year and thought I should verify my weight and payload combination.
I had to tow the boat to Duncan the other day to get my helm replaced and a service done so I went over the scales on the way to pick it up empty and the way back loaded. They are axle scales only and not a full platform so I weighed front and back empty then front, back and both trailer axles together loaded. The boat trailer only added 160 kg to my rear axle and some of that came off the front. I confirmed the lack of tongue weight with the fulcrum beam on a bathroom scale in the driveway. I have about 400 lbs on the tongue out of 7200 lbs total so about 5.5% tongue weight.
Everything I’ve learned about towing over the years tells me I should have 10-15% of the total boat and trailer weight on the tongue for safe, stable towing. This probably explains why I can fell every bounce in the trailer with a corresponding ’lurch’ of the truck.
I believe the bracket with outboards puts too much of the weight rear of the axles for safe towing of any distance. I have confirmed over the scales that the CoG is just about centered between the axles and should be moved forward at least a foot to provide a safe tongue weight. Unfortunately, I don’t have that much room on the trailer as the bowsprit is almost all the way forward as it is. (Bowsprit to back of outboard cowling measures 28’2” with motor down)
Total weight confirmed at 7200 lbs less 1500 lbs for the trailer makes the boat 5700 lbs with a half tank of fuel and most of my gear in the garage. The sticker on the trailer says it’s rated for 5800 lbs.
Am I looking at needing a new trailer? I can’t believe how many things I’ve purchased in the last ten years that needed mods over factory before they were safe or suitable for the purpose they were intended

I have the same boat with twins 150’s. All your numbers with regards to weight are similar to mine. I have a Tuff 6000# trailer with torsion suspension ( zero bounce) and tow with a Ram 1500, 3:92 rear axle ratio and 4 corner air suspension .With that bracket model we both have the C of G is well towards the stern so I adjusted the winch post so I have the transom well onto the trailer (18” onto the bunk) to get the weight over the axles.I also lowered the bunks to get in sitting lower on the trailer, originally set up felt too heavy and a few inches makes a significant difference ( yours looks like she sits pretty high on that trailer)My set up works well , tow’s with ease for the weight, I would try some fine tuning of your trailer set up prior to dropping $10k on a new trailer.

 

[Squire]

I have the same boat with twins 150’s. All your numbers with regards to weight are similar to mine. I have a Tuff 6000# trailer with torsion suspension ( zero bounce) and tow with a Ram 1500, 3:92 rear axle ratio and 4 corner air suspension .With that bracket model we both have the C of G is well towards the stern so I adjusted the winch post so I have the transom well onto the trailer (18” onto the bunk) to get the weight over the axles.I also lowered the bunks to get in sitting lower on the trailer, originally set up felt too heavy and a few inches makes a significant difference ( yours looks like she sits pretty high on that trailer)My set up works well , tow’s with ease for the weight, I would try some fine tuning of your trailer set up prior to dropping $10k on a new trailer.

Thanks for your insights. I was thinking of lowering the boat on the trailer as well to lower the center of gravity as well as move it forward. It currently sits bow high so I feel it would catch more wind when towing too. I would be concerned with moving the boat too far forward with the way the bunks are supported. A foot forward would put all the weight between the rear bunk supports so I’d have to move them forward too.
I’ve done circles around this set-up scratching my head over possibilities and any adjustment big enough to make a difference seems to open up a can of worms

 

[Squire]

Thanks for your insights. I was thinking of lowering the boat on the trailer as well to lower the center of gravity as well as move it forward. It currently sits bow high so I feel it would catch more wind when towing too. I would be concerned with moving the boat too far forward with the way the bunks are supported. A foot forward would put all the weight between the rear bunk supports so I’d have to move them forward too.
I’ve done circles around this set-up scratching my head over possibilities and any adjustment big enough to make a difference seems to open up a can of worms

I will try to adjust the trailer before I do anything else. A third support between two outside bunk supports on the back ‘T’ could be fabricated to deal with the shift in weight?
That might be my most economical solution but I’ll need to remember it can’t be towed by a pickup with a canopy

 

[Explorer682]

Thanks for your insights. I was thinking of lowering the boat on the trailer as well to lower the center of gravity as well as move it forward. It currently sits bow high so I feel it would catch more wind when towing too. I would be concerned with moving the boat too far forward with the way the bunks are supported. A foot forward would put all the weight between the rear bunk supports so I’d have to move them forward too.
I’ve done circles around this set-up scratching my head over possibilities and any adjustment big enough to make a difference seems to open up a can of worms

Can of worms is an understatement . I’ve got 40hrs of labour into setting mine up. Originally I had the bow sitting high as well, I jacket the boat up off the bunks, moved the winch post out of the way, dropped the bunks down ( even more so on the front) dropped the boat back down onto bunks and then put the winch post back on where the boat wanted to sit…..only took me 8 hours

 

[Squire]

Can of worms is an understatement . I’ve got 40hrs of labour into setting mine up. Originally I had the bow sitting high as well, I jacket the boat up off the bunks, moved the winch post out of the way, dropped the bunks down ( even more so on the front) dropped the boat back down onto bunks and then put the winch post back on where the boat wanted to sit…..only took me 8 hours

LOL; I already have a couple of hours in drawing pictures and taking notes and measurements so I can make adjustments after putting the boat back in it’s slip.

 

[pescador]

I have a 7200 lb rig as well. I haul with a 3/4 ton SUV with a 9200 lb tow cap. I’ve had the same issues in the past and played around with my set up to get it dialled in. You need 700-800 lbs on your ball. It’ll make a big difference. I found the easiest way to adjust tongue weight is moving your winch mast forward. One inch at a time. It doesn’t take a lot of adjustment to increase your tongue weight at the point. I too have a bow pulpit that’s very far forward and close to the vehicle. Similar to you. As long as it can’t make contact with the tow vehicle I personally doesn’t worry about it. Another good easy way to increase control of your trailer towing with a light truck is installing a weight distribution hitch.

 

[Sir Reel]

My cousin has the exact same boat. Same color too. He has had similar problems as you as well as the trailer beds gouging the gelcoat when loading the boat. I know he spent a lot of time on the phone with Campion about the problems. In the end he bought a new aluminum trailer with disk brakes. He does trailer all over the island.
If your intereseted in chatting with him send me a PM and I can put you in touch.

 

[Buckethead905]

I would have to look when I have some more time but I did read in a trailer manufacture manual (ez loader or something along those lines) that a safe Minimum tongue weight % with a DUAL axle trailer was 5%. That is what our boat is set up to currently and it tows great. I had to get my tongue weight as low as possible as I needed to limit my payload on the truck with having the camper in the back while towing the boat. If your truck can afford the additional payload then it’s a no brainer to try and aim for the 10% mark.

 

[Squire]

My cousin has the exact same boat. Same color too. He has had similar problems as you as well as the trailer beds gouging the gelcoat when loading the boat. I know he spent a lot of time on the phone with Campion about the problems. In the end he bought a new aluminum trailer with disk brakes. He does trailer all over the island.
If your intereseted in chatting with him send me a PM and I can put you in touch.

I would be interested in talking to him. Are PMs the ‘start conversation’ function on this forum?

 

[Sir Reel]

I would be interested in talking to him. Are PMs the ‘start conversation’ function on this forum?

yes correct. The little envelope top right of this page

 

[Foxsea]

It's great to get other opinions on your issue. One I always go to first is the manufacturer. No need to experiment. They have an unequaled depth of experience to draw on and are usually more than helpful. It's likely they will provide you with the best solution for your particular situation.

 

[Squire]

It's great to get other opinions on your issue. One I always go to first is the manufacturer. No need to experiment. They have an unequaled depth of experience to draw on and are usually more than helpful. It's likely they will provide you with the best solution for your particular situation.

Agreed; EZ Loader or one of their reputable dealers will be one of my calls. I learned a lot talking to the Seastar rep about replacing my helm.
I will also seek the anecdotal experience of others regarding different manufacturers and their products and service

 

[fish brain]

yes correct. The little envelope top right of this page

Or click Sir Reels avatar. There is a start conversation button there as well.

 

[doug78]

I've been battling the tongue weight with my seafarer, it's ok now at 500 lbs, but if it's full of fuel it lightens up. Need to spread by bunks as well, boat sits super high overall and higher at the stern than the bow.

There is also the surge brake can of worms..

Surge brakes must be used when towing a vehicle that has a gross vehicle weight (GVW) of up to and including 2,800 kg (6,173 pounds).
From 2,800 kilograms and up the towed vehicle brakes must be able to be applied by the driver of the tow vehicle.