Ottawa Says No Fish For You

[BigBadBrad]

Tough times for everyone. I do think some of these graphs we are seeing are also fairly inaccurate. I believe we catch a lot more than 1% of the stocks of concern....as I said before if we are adding Howe sound Chinook and winter Chinook ect ect to the 1% then that is poor data. Not sure if anytime knows the answer to this?

My guide friend in sooke got his data back from the scale samples and 6% of his fish were from “stocks of concern”.

We need mass hatchery marking.

BBB

 

[winephart]

Wow! What a **** storm. 11 pages of dialogue and we can't agree who to point fingers at , who the culprit is , and how to fix it.
I will probably get flamed over this post but here goes. My background is that I spent a decade and a half fighting early Fraser restrictions and fudged catch stats with the local salmon politics army.
Lets cut the racist rants out of the discussion. Whether you agree to first nations access and allocation or not, if the shoe was on the other foot and sporties were getting a free ride, which one of us would complain.
This situation has arisen from a lack of fish. DFO has not even tried to live up to their Mission Statement.
Let's not argue on who should be able to access stocks. That ship sailed.
How do we increase the number of fish coming out of the upper Fraser system. That is the problem we have to solve.
The simple answer is re-activate the Hatcheries that DFO decommisioned in the upper Fraser, do some fisheries act enforcement on the Fraser and address pinnaped predation. To do that you have to change the culture of management at DFO and get the rank and file Canadian to understand the problem.
That's a hard nut to crack. We probably need some lobbyists in Ottawa and a Pr campaign. We have the statistics on our side . We need to raise a war chest and put some pressure on Politicians. Lets not waste our time on legal fights that will cost the moon, drag on forever and go nowhere. Blockades? We aren't recognised as an under priveledged group. W e are seen as a bunch of priveleged guys with too much money to spend on bigger and bigger boats and who aren't prepared to sacrifice for the greater good.
Like I said , I will probably get flamed but thats how I feel. Lets try to solve the problem , rather than ***** about the symptoms.

 

[disco]

I don't get the "keep racism out of it" comments. This is about a govt that has identified a race and decided to pander to them for their votes. That's the reality, end of story! The govt has brought race into the issue and the mainstream media agree with them. We're screwed because we have a fragile NDP govt and a fragile Liberal govt that needs every vote they can buy (with our money) and they've already bought off the media mafia.

 

[agentaqua]

disco - You may wish to read pages 3-4 of : https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...fraser-river-native-fishery-2020.81869/page-3

 

[wildmanyeah]

Lol. Yup, like 4.9 per cent of the national population, where perhaps 1/10 of all indigenous people vote, will do nothing for Trudeau. If you believe 1/10 of the indigenous population who vote will help him, well...what can I say?!

Ask yourself instead how can 95.1% of the population find a way to develop a better relationship with indigenous people here in Canada.

Working together is better...

It’s not about getting FN votes it’s
About making their voting base feel all good inside when they throw a few penny’s to the First Nations.

 

[cohochinook]

We're closed to even catch and release until September 1, but as of June 21st there has been 23 gillnet openings for Chinook on the lower Fraser:

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/...ns/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes_Previous.html

I fully respect First Nations constitutional rights and priority. The Federal Government is telling us there is conversation concern for Upper Fraser 4.2 and 5.2 spring and summer chinook. Conservation is supposed to come before any user groups yet they continue to allow gillnet openings for Chinook?

 

[SpringFever552]

Agreed @cohochinook
If we all agree these closures are all about conservation and saving the upper fraser chinook
THEN CLOSE THE RIVER NETTING DOWN!!!

 

[Powerset]

There are always larger political calculations being made, especially by minority governments both provincially and especially federally. The Trudeau balancing act between growing businesses but still pandering to the Environmental Movement’s demands has become a delicate balance for the Libs. He’s being pulled hard to the left, especially after buying the pipelines and then add to that the FN blockades this spring. We’re in a perfect storm and unfortunately the Rec Fishermen just don’t offer the Liberals much. We lose, we’re the path of least resistance, until we aren’t

 

[sir-vivor]

Keep in mind the DFO monitor these pages closely and each time we report ..... they record so personally for me, in protest I will not be reporting anything this year. Can't do much about the current regulations except for this so ......... thats my part

 

[Nitroholic]

28-6 going to be bumper to bumper come august 1st

 

[Jencourt]

If this has been covered I apologize for the resurrection of the question. In the following portion of the Fraser Chinook measures it is worded as “ no fishing for Chinook”

If that is different from “Chinook non retention “ How can it be different than “no fishing for Salmon” ? target Coho and you get Chinook bycatch so you let em go. Is the intention to reduce mortal by not targeting Chinook. That’s hard. What constitutes targeting Chinook.
If I being a little thick on this one I apologize. In light of some of the wording to def/ explain the non retention last year, along with the term “no fishing for Salmon” in the non tidal portions I am genuinely confused.

portion of notice for reference:

“
Portions of Southern Strait of Georgia, Howe Sound and Burrard Inlet – Subareas 28-7 to 28-9; that portion of Subarea 28-2 that lies southerly of a line drawn due east
from Halkett Point on Gambier Island (49 26.735’N, 123 19.302’W) to a point (49 26.550’N, 123 14.317’W) on the mainland corresponding with the southeast point of the
Lions Bay RCA; and those portions of 29-3 to 29-5 that lie east of a line from Gower Point (49 23.021’N, 123 32.166’ W) near Gibsons to Shah Point on the southern tip
of Valdes Island (49 01.695’N, 123 35.721’W)

- Immediately to 23:59 hours August 31: No fishing for Chinook;
- 00:01 hours September 1 to 23:59 hours December 31: 2 Chinook per day.”

 

[wildmanyeah]

If that is different from “Chinook non retention “ How can it be different than “no fishing for Salmon” ? target Coho and you get Chinook bycatch so you let em go. Is the intention to reduce mortal by not targeting Chinook. That’s hard. What constitutes targeting Chinook.
If I being a little thick on this one I apologize. In light of some of the wording to def/ explain the non retention last year, along with the term “no fishing for Salmon” in the non tidal portions I am genuinely confused.

I think the intent of the wording ("no fishing for chinook") is to please some user groups but I confirmed with DFO and Coho is open in those areas.

 

[Jencourt]

I think the intent of the wording is to please some user groups but I confirmed with DFO and Coho is open in those areas.

OK thanks. Can’t help but feel that things just keep getting more and more complicated. Lol

thanks again : Ray

 

[agentaqua]

I don't know why people like to see things through their political lens of what party they like or claim allegiance to. ALL parties that claim to form the government & represent the Canadian people have had numerous debacles, crises and corruption. Some have been really terrible wrt dismantling checks & balances for the fisheries resources (e.g. Harper) - but all look after their funders that also fund lobbyists to troll the hallways in Ottawa and elsewhere. Looking for any party to "save us" is insane, IMHO.

 

[Aces]

I don't know why people like to see things through their political lens of what party they like or claim allegiance to. ALL parties that claim to form the government & represent the Canadian people have had numerous debacles, crises and corruption. Some have been really terrible wrt dismantling checks & balances for the fisheries resources (e.g. Harper) - but all look after their funders that also fund lobbyists to troll the hallways in Ottawa and elsewhere. Looking for any party to "save us" is insane, IMHO.

At least Harper didn’t embrace the Sparrow decision

 

[wildmanyeah]

Conservatives: good for access to fishing, Bad for wild fish, good at stonewalling first nations
Liberals: Bad for access to fishing, good for wild fish, Don't stone wall FN requests

Conservatives would probably let early fraser be harvest to extinction but fishing would be open. Apparently they are still under the path to extinction under the liberals fishing restrictions alone won't recover these stocks. Its yet to be seen if the Liberals will put the billions necessary into the fraser watershed. Probably not its a big number

Conservatives had a fishery and economic policy, Liberals have a Wild salmon and reconciliation policy.

There are pretty big difference

 

[the butcher]

Once again pipe dream but wouldn't it be nice to see DFO actually allow open doors to their secretive meetings and transparency into their decision making process and the criteria used? Of course it would never happened because the public would be outraged at how stupid these decisions are and all the backdoor and back channel talks with interest groups who have more clout than we do.

Imagine a day where every stakeholder party was involved in the decision making process and involved in the solution? Imagine Along a riverbank we have families with parents and kids helping to clean up the river Bank, alongside other volunteers from the commercial sector, rec sector, FN, DFO, community save the salmon groups... Instead of burning endless cycles and fighting each other, we all work towards a common goal which is the same goal every group wants. Definately not in my life time.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Imagine a day where every stakeholder party was involved in the decision making process and involved in the solution? Imagine Along a riverbank we have families with parents and kids helping to clean up the river Bank, alongside other volunteers from the commercial sector, rec sector, FN, DFO, community save the salmon groups... Instead of burning endless cycles and fighting each other, we all work towards a common goal which is the same goal every group wants. Definately not in my life time.

I would say some of the round tables are close to this, Some say they have a bias towards overharvesting and ENGO's are not at the tables. I think the round tables do a fairly good job tho.

 

[agentaqua]

At least Harper didn’t embrace the Sparrow decision

Thanks for illustrating & confirming my post, Aces.

To be clear - the judge ruled on the Sparrow decision based on s. 35 of the Constitution Act - and that case and that ruling had NOTHING to do with any elected party. Any government should institute the courts ruling. Harper's hidden agenda was Enbridge - Trudeau's was Trans Mountain/Bombardier and excommunicated Jody for disagreeing. Harper gutted numerous Acts that protected fish and pulled the feds out of PNCIMA. Call a spade a spade - and a politician for what they are - facultative parasites that use parties to reward loyalty to their supporters and return favours for election funds they receive from hidden donors - and play to their base to try to get re-elected ev. 4 yrs.to keep the gravy train rolling.

WMY seems to have a decent grasp of the politics from his posting above.

 

[the butcher]

I would say some of the round tables are close to this, Some say they have a bias towards overharvesting and ENGO's are not at the tables. I think the round tables do a fairly good job tho.

There's no point to a round table when everyone at the round table aren't given a fair opportunity to be a part of the solution. Our rec sector and those who have represented us at these so called round tables have been taken for a ride time and time again. DFO pretends to listen and consult with us and every other stakeholder as they state in their press release but it seems they say one thing while at the table to give us a sense of hope and then behind our backs and through back channel makes deals with others. Don't think we are even close to being there as you have suggested.