Neat Wolf Pic

[crazycanuck]

Wow! Well its a really cool picture anyway.

 

[Andrew P]

Well, I don't have the hunter perspective like many of you....I do have some advice to lend on co-existing with these guys, being a proud owner of a coastal wolf mutt. It seems some of these things could apply to some of you hot heads too!!



To keep them chill, and not eating your kids:

1. Give them something to eat.


2. Share a beer!


3. Most importantly....GO FISHING!!

 

[wolf]

AFTER 5 posts you can take a hike too TROLL......old....

Ive said earlier they are a cool animal grew up with a half wolf /aquida mutt as well..

Might as well post facts on how good fish farms are as well BUT we all now how bad they are...same thing if you probe into the wrong facts...living first hand ill take that anyday ....

And Andrew great pics the dog!!!! the dog in question was very cool and loved it alot she was gentle and would talk like crazy a real jem just like what yours looks like....

 

[high tide]

So for Wolf and I ........and MANY others......... Just to finish this thread off Bang Flop ! ...... after seeing the demise of all Ungulate species and more in several area's throughout this province for over 40 YEARS, I have also seen as Wolf describes ....... they completely can grow in packs, wipe out and move on. Others live in specific area's and packs are kept to even numbers supported by food and habitat. When they come into our communities of families, homes and business ........ BANG FLOP ! Just like any Wolf I see in General Open Season. Man upset the cart by arriving here in the first place. Everything needs to be managed including Wolves ..... oh and G Bears ....... any body want to talk about the G Bear Hunt opening on LEH ??

It is a Very Cool Pic though ....... : > }

 

[rovingfisherman]

Wolf and HT why don't the two of you get together tonight and watch the new episode of NOVA on PBS. It's titled WILD PREDATOR INVASION, we can compare your accounts of what's happening in Yellowstone with reality.

 

[wolf]

Better yet why DON'T you watch something that's no bias activist based called rise of black wolf and tell me they dont kill for fun in a super pack....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpd9TJTCMFk some very nice bulls in the prime being killed there not just the "weak and young" .

And look up why BC biologists are asking for a cull in northern BC to protect the caribou herds ...

 

[DVL U Know]

Oh, let's not even get started on the freaking grey squirrels! Taking over all that red squirrel territory!

And let's cull the domestic cat population, they are killing all the song birds...

And cotton tail rabbits and domestic rabbits...

And why is it I have deer but no grouse in my yard! I mean if I so desired I could shoot deer all day long from my hot tub! Just one grouse...or a ringtail....

Bears are super cool too! And cougars(4 legged ones)! Wish I lived somewhere I could pet those...they are friendly right?...like a Disney movie? They just help restore balance to the natural order of the world...what we screwed up that natural order?...OK then they make us feel better to at least see them...they are majestic, until they prove to us they are better predators then us by eating someone's dog off their leash when they are walking a "wilderness" trail.

Don't anyone act like they have this figured out...cause we don't. Should we kill wolves...maybe...maybe not. If I lived downtown condo--hell no! If I live in their range and they could screw with me or mine...sure? But just do what people have always done, cap them and don't make a big deal out of it.

Oh wait...where's my moral high ground...I think we should let the wolves live with us...but Bob Barker them(spade/neuter)! That way the alphas can control the breeding...and not breed. Nothing like castrati wolf song!

 

[Gunsmith]

Shoot, Shovel, and Shut-up in Alberta.

 

[high tide]

Gunsmiths got it right ! What ? Where? When ? It never happened ?

 

[Seafever]

Most of the rabbit over-populations where I live come from concerned caring pet owners who release their rabbits into the wild after little Jimmy and Janey have grown tired of them.

Then when a cull is needed up pop the "holier-than-thou" animal lovers to stop it.

Transferring rabbits to Texas to "save" them was the dumbest thing I ever heard of. Those would have fed a lot of homeless people.

There are also far too many urban deer around up here mid-island.

Cows actually have more personality than deer. So do pigs.

I like wild animals and do not believe in "trophy" hunts. Killing to bolster egos is silly.

But a deer cull I could handle. Deer are basically stupid compared to many other animals. And I'm still trying to figure out what purpose they serve....other than food for other predators.

Cougars are elusive....I've yet to see one out in the wild....although I'm sure they've watched me.

Most of the attacks on V.I. are from cougars that are underweight or have some kind of issue.

Lived on the island since 1959 and I've never seen a wolf yet.

Seen lots of black bears........but they've never been a threat.

 

[Englishman]

Englishman,

Would you please quit muddying the waters of bogeyman prejudices, unsubstantiated beliefs and urban legends with rational arguments and facts!

Ha, ha! I do my feeble best but the “bang flops” hang on to their beliefs (like a religion) whatever the strength of the documented evidence from knowledgeable sources.

HAVE you ever seen a wolf in the WILD???? been near them seen what they have done i hardly doubt it I have seen they kill for fun a few times to let the meat ROT YOU run on emotions like a woman not on facts I HAVE SEEN it and witnesses it. been hunting for almost all my life in BC worse i ever saw was in the early 80s in nitnat valley when the population was really booming and they wiped out a whole hillside and dead deer were rotting everywhere and they didnt kill "the weak and the young" got some nice 5 pt antlers to prove it ....YOU dont need to find a publication for that but while you are looking find the one where there was a study on "if seals it salmon"

Yeah those wolves like to gamble, tell jokes, and stand around drinking beer with their buddies as well. They are real FUN guys!

Wolf we have had this debate before and I don’t doubt for a moment what you have seen. It is the characterisation of this behaviour as a "fun" response that I will challenge every time because it perpetuates the 19th century mythical image of the wolf as mindless, senseless, psychotic killer.

Seriously, do you really believe their killing behaviour is for “fun”. You are grossly overestimating their mental capacity if you believe they are capable of human emotion. Do you really believe they kill a deer and think “that was great, that one died kicking and bleating and it was fun so I’m going to kill that one over there too and rip his throat out ‘cos all that blood turns me on”.

You are seeing and misinterpreting things because your presence has already changed what might occur naturally and because to you any meat that does not go into the freezer is “wasted”. Nothing in nature is in fact wasted.

Your real outrage is coming from one source only. All those deer wolves take are less deer for you to shoot and so the wolves are demonised in your mind as “woodland thugs and terrorists” when they are nothing of the kind.

Here are some papers on the phenomena you have observed, which is called “surplus killing”.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7998.1972.tb04087.x/abstract

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/z85-045#.Uz7euFfyWLU

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2144543

Englishman, cats kill for fun, do they not? I hardly see that as believing they have human emotions. I believe it is a fair statement to say wolf's do jump on any opportunity that comes to them to kill, whether they are hungry, or have recently fed. Some populations of prey can only handle so much predators, and in area's where humans actively hunt we throw off natures balance. There just aint enough prey around for the both of us. I for one believe in a hierarchy amongst beasts, and that our needs should be taken first, ahead of the wolfs needs.

Same thing. What we call a cat “playing” with a mouse is in reality an instinctive reaction to motion and flight of a prey creature. They are maintaining their hunting and catching skills. They cannot help themselves and it is not “playing” in the human sense.
A wild wolf taking advantage of an opportunity to kill more than one prey animal is a sensible survival strategy. He can come back and eat it later. It is NOT done for “fun”. And since wolves cannot count (despite what the bang flops believe) that strategy causes significant animal losses if wolves encounter many easy to kill prey such as a flock of enclosed sheep. That is an unnatural situation and their wild survival strategy simply takes over and runs to its end. But it is NOT done for fun or because they are destructive, vindictive, mean, greedy or plain psychotic!!

Wolf and HT why don't the two of you get together tonight and watch the new episode of NOVA on PBS. It's titled WILD PREDATOR INVASION, we can compare your accounts of what's happening in Yellowstone with reality.

Roving, the “bang flops” will NEVER watch any scientific based program or read any wild life biology articles that challenge their prejudices, or provide other explanations for their observations. To them all such work is “biased” and only they have “perfect insight into the wolf mind” and they therefore know more than all those city educated biologists, ecologists, or animal behaviourists!

Better yet why DON'T you watch something that's no bias activist based called rise of black wolf and tell me they dont kill for fun in a super pack....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpd9TJTCMFk some very nice bulls in the prime being killed there not just the "weak and young" .

And look up why BC biologists are asking for a cull in northern BC to protect the caribou herds ...

I rest my case about the belief that any other informed point of view is “biased”!!
I however, will take a look at this Nat Geo progam when I have a better Internet connection and get back to you.
If the scientists working in N. BC are basing their call on sound science and not on political pressures, then great. Let’s hope the intended results are achieved and there are no unintended consequences.

 

[Seafever]

Englishman:-

You might want to watch the documentary on how they re-introduced bears to the Alps....and all the negative issues locals are having with that.


As far as religion goes (this , of course won't apply to you seeing as how you consider anything written in the Bible to be "bunk") God gave mankind domain over the animals and ,as stewards, the right to cull, control, populate and do whatever is necessary for the culture ,care, and management of any species.

 

[wolf]

AND I ask HAVE you been among these wild animals ?? you bring up all this writing crap from an activist point of view ... I know you will say YES seen a bunch of them... to make it appear you have ive seen them. you have only been here a few years ive lived here all my life and been hunting all over this province seeing them kill for "fun" I don't need a paper tor study to tell me what I have observed out there any armchair activist can do that.

For the last 15 years ive taken maybe 1 buck a year in local areas I go out EVERY WEEKEND during hunting season to look for a nice deer but mostly for firewood and mushrooms and to be out there enjoying the wilderness and to go for a walk nothing is better to be out there when the sun is just coming up on a brisk fall day!

if i wanted all this deer meat id take them from my back 40 (any given night there is 4 to 10 deer on my property ) the deer population is overburden hence they want to cull them in sooke/oakbay /saanich pennisula/gordon head etc cause the predators have pushed them into here big time ....HEY I know lets bring wolves into the CITY..... take out deer the rabbits the stray dogs/cats see how that will work out....

 

[halimark]

I have a place in my heart. oops. I mean wall right beside the one already there, it does not move or leave deposits in my yard as the pics above. Bang flop and as many bang flops as the regs allow depending where in this awesome Province I may be.

HM

 

[SpringVelocity]

Hi All,

Wolf ran in front of me the other day and had to hit the brakes or I would have hit it. It reminded me of a neat picture that I wanted to share it was taken just outside our place of the Black lone wolf cruising around town which is gone now apparently packed up and left. The recent one was gray neat looking animals and very scitish. I know this is off topic so feel free to move the post if you like if there's a specific spot better suited.


View attachment 11094

And again I will go back to original post and purpose that is a cool post thanks for sharing!

 

[Birdsnest]

That is a nice photo of an "urban" wolf which seems like a new situation to me. I saw two in ukee last year myself in the two days I was there for a first aid course. I live in tofino and currently we have wolves bears and a family of cougars in the area. But this is normal.

About this "wolves killing for fun" thing. Call it what you want but I believe that many species of predator will do this. Its just part of their survival process. Seals and sea lions are masters at this. They will kill far more fish than they can eat just to have the prime parts of the fish, ie hearts and livers. I have seen this in the wild for myself but I would not call it "killing for fun", not that it maters a kill is a kill.
I would be interested to see what these municipal wolves are eating in town. I suspect/hope they are doing a number on the rats, coons and mice but what happens when those items run low can be troublesome. IMO

 

[Gunsmith]

It is the way of nature, we do not always understand this but it happens. The adults sometimes bring back live prey to their young so they can learn how to kill. Not nice to us but it is the way nature works.

That is a nice photo of an "urban" wolf which seems like a new situation to me. I saw two in ukee last year myself in the two days I was there for a first aid course. I live in tofino and currently we have wolves bears and a family of cougars in the area. But this is normal.

About this "wolves killing for fun" thing. Call it what you want but I believe that many species of predator will do this. Its just part of their survival process. Seals and sea lions are masters at this. They will kill far more fish than they can eat just to have the prime parts of the fish, ie hearts and livers. I have seen this in the wild for myself but I would not call it "killing for fun", not that it maters a kill is a kill.
I would be interested to see what these municipal wolves are eating in town. I suspect/hope they are doing a number on the rats, coons and mice but what happens when those items run low can be troublesome. IMO

 

[Seafever]

There are "urban" wolves, deer, bear and cougar.

A lot of them go "urban" when they can't compete with others of the same specie for food.......for varying reasons like age , illness, weakness, or disease.

So they find the pickings better near human communities.

They guy that shot the video of the wolf carting off his live dog.........why didn't he put the camera down and go out there and try to save it?. I would have.

 

[DVL U Know]

Toying with prey and killing more than they can take...sounds like catch and release. For that matter eating all the choice bits...I call mine a fillet.

Predators always hate other predators hunting in their range...always the way of things. If you don't hunt--have moral objections to it, that is fine...although odd considering there isn't a huge difference between fishing and hunting, you are still killing some prey that another predator could eat?

No irony in this topic...or people trolling a fish forum...hah!

 

[Englishman]

AND I ask HAVE you been among these wild animals ?? you bring up all this writing crap from an activist point of view ... I know you will say YES seen a bunch of them... to make it appear you have ive seen them. you have only been here a few years ive lived here all my life and been hunting all over this province seeing them kill for "fun"

Wolf, you are still confusing two things. You have seen wolves kill more than they can eat at once. Fine so far. You then make the unsupportable leap to the conclusion “they must be killing for fun”. How do you know that? The fact is you don’t and that is a huge erroneous assumption (and attribution of human motivations to animals) which contradicts all the biological research and wolf literature out there.
Of course I have not seen as many wolves as you have! I will never manage that. But the fact that you may be the greatest hunter on Vancouver Island – or in BC for all I know – does NOT make you a wildlife biologist. Any more than the fact I have fished for 40 years makes me a fish or marine biologist.
When I hear of observations and interpretations that I do not understand, or unsupported folk lore from others, I don’t blindly accept what they say, nor do draw my own conclusions from my own limited knowledge. I check the FACTS. I consult the EXPERTS. I don’t need to see lots of wolves since I can easily consult the research of these experts, who have done years and years of work. The wildlife biologists call it “surplus killing”. It is a recorded phenomena, just as you have observed…… but wolves DO NOT do it “for fun”. That assertion is totally ridiculous. There are many complex reasons why this occurs which you can learn about, IF you are willing to read.

I don't need a paper tor study to tell me what I have observed out there any armchair activist can do that.

Again this shows your lack of understanding and reading around the subject. These are absolutely NOT armchair activists as you call them. Some of these authors are professional biologists, many of whom have spent 30 years observing wolves in the field, doing radio collar work etc. They know far more about wolves than you do because they are fully qualified and do it as profession, all year, not just during hunting season.
Here is what the research says.
This general article explains this predator phenomenon in general: It is NOT just wolves that do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing
******************
This article is by a biologists who specialised in white tail deer in Maine for 30 years. He writes about how devastating surplus killing is for livestock and that coyotes do it too. He never uses the “fun” word once!!
http://www.sportsmansallianceofmaine.org/PDF/Surplus Killing.pdf
******************
This a paper by the Canadian Wildlife service about the surplus killing of many Caribou calves . Observed wolf behaviours are recorded and reasons discussed.
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/z85-045
******************
This article is about surplus killing of White tail deer in Minnesota. The author notes this phenomena is rare in that state.
http://wolfology1.tripod.com/id145.htm
******************
This link is to a section on surplus killing from a book called Wolves: Behaviour, Ecology and Conservation. http://books.google.ca/books?id=_mX...Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=surplus killing&f=false
One of the authors of the above book, L David Mech in an Internationally recognised expert in wolves!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._David_Mech
******************
This article is by a hunter on a hunting site. On the subject of surplus killing even this author does not use the “fun” word!! I quote:-
“Surplus killing is like a short-circuit in the wolf where its instinct to kill somehow overrides its need for food. Surplus killing typically occurs when their prey is malnourished and deep snow conditions make them easy targets. Heavy concentrations of deer, such as with logging operations, can lead to surplus killing. Many people believe that surplus killing is a waste; however waste is a human concept. Surplus kills are typically used up by scavengers.”
http://www.buckmasters.com/a-wolf-in-the-fold.aspx
******************
This is a seven year study of elk in the Grand Teton area that shows wolves make few “unnecessary” kills there.
http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...cle_8d52a848-35ba-53d6-9f0a-70144ed8b09d.html
*****************
Have a look at what Doug Smith the lead wolf biologist in Yellowstone says about surplus killing. http://westernwildlife.org/chris-smith-yellowstone-wolf-lead-project-biologist-laying-facts/
Doug Smith has studied wolves in different ecosystems for over 30 years !
https://www.google.ca/#q=Doug+smith+wolves
*********************************
Here is a detailed scientific paper on partial prey consumption by wolf packs on Isle Royale. The behaviour is a complex adaptation to prey health and age, snow conditions, and proximity to other predators including humans!
http://isleroyalewolf.org/sites/default/files/tech_pubs_files/Vucetich et al 2012 PPC.pdf
*********************************
Here the question of so called “sport” hunting by wolves is answered in detail.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/11/do_wolves_kill_for_sport.html
*********************************
And a final article debunking the wolves “kill for fun” folk lore.
http://www.oregonwild.org/fish_wildlife/bringing_wolves_back/wolves-misunderstood#wolves-do-not-kill
***********************************
So there you have it Wolf. All the above research proves that your interpretation of wolves “killing for fun” is not supported by any of the research biology work done on wolves over the past 30 years.
It is not surprising that wolves do not “kill for fun” since they are not human!
Science will always give you an answer Wolf if you are willing to look and read. If you want to continue to ignore all the above evidence and persist in your own folk lore based belief system, then nothing more can be said.

For the last 15 years ive taken maybe 1 buck a year in local areas I go out EVERY WEEKEND during hunting season to look for a nice deer but mostly for firewood and mushrooms and to be out there enjoying the wilderness and to go for a walk nothing is better to be out there when the sun is just coming up on a brisk fall day!

Sounds great.

if i wanted all this deer meat id take them from my back 40 (any given night there is 4 to 10 deer on my property ) the deer population is overburden hence they want to cull them in sooke/oakbay /saanich pennisula/gordon head etc cause the predators have pushed them into here big time ....HEY I know lets bring wolves into the CITY..... take out deer the rabbits the stray dogs/cats see how that will work out....

Culling is whole new topic. There may well be too many deer in those areas. If you take out all the deer predators of course you will get overpopulation! That is exactly what happened with the elk herd in Yellowstone and can and does happen everywhere else. So culling appears to be the only answer left…..