Huge springer run predicted for Columbia Riv

Slabby20

Active Member
Let's hope their right :D:D

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091217/SPORTS/712179970/1008/SPORTS02#Huge.spring.chinook.run.predicted.for.Columbia.River

Huge spring chinook run predicted for Columbia River

By Wayne Kruse
Special to The Herald

One of the best things about winter around here is that spring comes along right behind it.

That's a particularly joyful arrangement this winter, with the awesome announcement last week by Washington/Oregon fisheries biologists that they're predicting a Columbia River spring chinook run of 470,000 fish in 2010. If that many of the big, sleek, hard-charging salmon do show up, it would be the largest return to the Columbia since 1938.

Last year's fishery, short but oh so sweet, was on a run of 169,300 springers.

Granted, biologists have had a spotty record recently with their run predictions, leading to confusion about regulations, emergency closures, overfishing by some user groups and underfishing by others. But the members of the Technical Advisory Committee (TAC), which advises the two states on Columbia fisheries science, say they've developed new computer models that hopefully will result in predictions closer to the mark.

According to Stuart Ellis, current chair of the TAC and a member of the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission, the advisory group was suspicious of the record number of spring chinook jacks counted at Bonneville in 2009. Recent forecasts relying heavily on jack counts have overstated the actual return of adult fish by an average of 45 percent, Ellis said, so models that take into account other factors, such as ocean conditions, have been developed.

“The number of spring chinook jacks returning in 2009 was four times greater than anything we've seen before, which made the number a statistical anomaly,” he said. “We're still projecting a strong return for upriver springers next year, but we've tempered the jack return with other indicators.”

Run predictions of the seven models chosen by TAC range from 366,000 to 528,000 fish, and the committee agreed on the average, 470,000.

If that even comes close, you're going to see a line of boat trailers heading down I-5 like ants heading to a picnic, with me right in the middle. I was fortunate enough to fish the run for the first time last year, in the company of my two sons and T.J. Nelson of Lake Stevens, and I recommend the fishery highly. They're prime, fat, active salmon, easily accessible to small boats, and the standard gear setup and fishing techniques don't require rocket science.

It's not particularly pristine fishing, right in downtown Vancouver with 18-wheelers thundering overhead on the I-5 bridge, but hey, it's close and easy and civilized.


DSCN4812-2-1.jpg
 
These fish hit various areas on the WCVI between mid to late June and mid August. Peak seems to be late July to mid August in most years, but we did have some early fish a few years back. We had a strong June feeder showing in Barkley Sound last summer, so no surprise this year will be a strong run.

Bring em on! :D

Searun
 
That few weeks of american fish in late may, early june was nuts. Lots of teeners around inshore! Did you ever send heads in pat?

It seems as though every year they over predict this run. Whether its for a commercial,sports fishing agenda or just misprediction i dont know. Hopefully its bang on and offshore is hot all summer.
 
It would be nice if there is a prediction of Robertson Creek chinook run of 200,000 or more in the next coming years.[V]

But I'm happy for Columbia River fisheries that is doing well with the spring chinook runs that gives out the opportunities to the sportsfishermen along the coasts.
 
quote:Originally posted by Slabby20

Let's hope their right :D:D

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091217/SPORTS/712179970/1008/SPORTS02#Huge.spring.chinook.run.predicted.for.Columbia.River

Huge spring chinook run predicted for Columbia River

By Wayne Kruse
Special to The Herald

One of the best things about winter around here is that spring comes along right behind it.

That's a particularly joyful arrangement this winter, with the awesome announcement last week by Washington/Oregon fisheries biologists that they're predicting a Columbia River spring chinook run of 470,000 fish in 2010. If that many of the big, sleek, hard-charging salmon do show up, it would be the largest return to the Columbia since 1938.

Last year's fishery, short but oh so sweet, was on a run of 169,300 springers.

Granted, biologists have had a spotty record recently with their run predictions, leading to confusion about regulations, emergency closures, overfishing by some user groups and underfishing by others. But the members of the Technical Advisory Committee (TAC), which advises the two states on Columbia fisheries science, say they've developed new computer models that hopefully will result in predictions closer to the mark.

According to Stuart Ellis, current chair of the TAC and a member of the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission, the advisory group was suspicious of the record number of spring chinook jacks counted at Bonneville in 2009. Recent forecasts relying heavily on jack counts have overstated the actual return of adult fish by an average of 45 percent, Ellis said, so models that take into account other factors, such as ocean conditions, have been developed.

“The number of spring chinook jacks returning in 2009 was four times greater than anything we've seen before, which made the number a statistical anomaly,” he said. “We're still projecting a strong return for upriver springers next year, but we've tempered the jack return with other indicators.”

Run predictions of the seven models chosen by TAC range from 366,000 to 528,000 fish, and the committee agreed on the average, 470,000.

If that even comes close, you're going to see a line of boat trailers heading down I-5 like ants heading to a picnic, with me right in the middle. I was fortunate enough to fish the run for the first time last year, in the company of my two sons and T.J. Nelson of Lake Stevens, and I recommend the fishery highly. They're prime, fat, active salmon, easily accessible to small boats, and the standard gear setup and fishing techniques don't require rocket science.

It's not particularly pristine fishing, right in downtown Vancouver with 18-wheelers thundering overhead on the I-5 bridge, but hey, it's close and easy and civilized.


DSCN4812-2-1.jpg
This article is about their SPRING RUN Chinooks. These fish start trickling up the Columbia in early March and peaking in late April/early May as they head for the Willamette River, a large tributary that meets the Columbia near Portland. These fish are generally smaller than the Summer and Fall run Chinooks but prized for their eating quality.We start seeing this run off of Tofino starting around Easter.

On a side note - wouldn't it be nice if the Fraser had runs like this? I remember my Grandfather telling me that the Fraser used to have Chinooks running 12 months of the year.
Damn - i hate DFO, bunch of [:eek:)]
 
the run prediction was about 350,000 up to 550,000 fish. the quota was set at the 400k number. predicting, don't loose site of that word, has been totally bogus for decades. counting jacks is a great example of how not to use statistical analysis. bottom line is we can all keep our fingers crossed but these numbers mean virtually nothing except what the commercial quota will be based on.
 
quote:Originally posted by Tofinoguy

quote:Originally posted by Slabby20

Let's hope their right :D:D
This article is about their SPRING RUN Chinooks. These fish start trickling up the Columbia in early March and peaking in late April/early May as they head for the Willamette River, a large tributary that meets the Columbia near Portland. These fish are generally smaller than the Summer and Fall run Chinooks but prized for their eating quality.We start seeing this run off of Tofino starting around Easter.

On a side note - wouldn't it be nice if the Fraser had runs like this? I remember my Grandfather telling me that the Fraser used to have Chinooks running 12 months of the year.
Damn - i hate DFO, bunch of [:eek:)]
X2 Just to add... some do and are from the upper Columbia and Snake River. They are usually the larger ones showing more in the May time frame.
 
quote:Originally posted by reelfast

the run prediction was about 350,000 up to 550,000 fish. the quota was set at the 400k number. predicting, don't loose site of that word, has been totally bogus for decades. counting jacks is a great example of how not to use statistical analysis. bottom line is we can all keep our fingers crossed but these numbers mean virtually nothing except what the commercial quota will be based on.
FYI, when it comes to run forecasting for Chinooks DFO uses the "Jack formula" as well. We all know how that's worked out! [:eek:)]
 
quote:Originally posted by Tofinoguy

FYI, when it comes to run forecasting for Chinooks DFO uses the "Jack formula" as well. We all know how that's worked out! [:eek:)]

Well, actually had DFO used the very poor 2008 Jack return data for the Stamp/Somas they would have seriously downgraded the predicted run. I'd like to have a quick look at the 2009 Jack data to see if we will have any fish coming back in 2010. Anyone got a copy?? Too bad we were not as proactive as the guys down south in keeping our hatchery production at the levels they should be. Sad situation indeed.

Searun

th_067.jpg
 
Okay, I wasn’t going say anything, but I guess it’s just my nature... and going to anyway. :)

First... this is "NOT" the main Columbia run... It is only the "Spring"! There surely will be more coming throughout the season! I guess we are doing something right along with natures help! :)

The references made in the article indicating this information was derived from studies done by, “scientist for the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission (CRITFC) and chairman of the technical committee that pruduced the forecast”, I don’t believe quite true, at all! Unless they also work for NOAA? I have known this for quite awhile and I sure didn’t get the info from “them”. The actual forecast is 479,000... and if you want to see how those numbers where arrived - check out the following (please scroll down and notice last modified 01/21/2009):
http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fed/oeip/g-forecast.cfm

I have been recommending this site for years!

Now with that off my chest! NOAA has been "spot on" for the last few years, especially and including last year! If they tell me the salmon will be there... I am a believer, they will be there! They actually know what they are talking about and send their scientists out to find the fish and determine their status! Unless something happens this coming year and the next year both will be better than last. This is what “NOAA” is saying!

quote:Conditions began improving through 2007 and greatly improved during 2008.

We expect spring Chinook runs in 2010 and 2011 to rival the high returns of this species seen in 2001 and 2002; however, expectations for returns of Coho in 2009 are somewhat lower due to warm sea–surface conditions throughout August and low catches of Coho salmon in our September 2008 survey.
NOAA's early Columbia Chinook “Spring Return” forcast:
quote:The 2008 September CPUE (0.27) and predicted OPIH from the regression (479 thousand).

Here is a couple of definitions:
quote:
CPUE - catch per unit effort (CPUE) as the number of a particular species caught per kilometer traveled with the trawl under tow. However, CPUE is a relative and indirect measure of fishing effectiveness or species abundance. "Catch" can mean weight or numbers of total catch or of a particular species. "Units of effort" can be measured as individual cruises, the number of sets of a fishing net (or casts of a line), or as units of time or distance.

OPIH (Oregon Production Index, Hatchery) For Coho, an estimate of total freshwater escapement, adjusted for ocean and freshwater catch, for public hatchery fish throughout the Oregon Production Index Area. Private hatchery production is removed from this estimate, so it reflects only public hatchery fish. Used as the numerator in calculating SARs for the OPIH.
Enjoy the fishing! Some of these will be "Upper Columbia" and will easily exceed 30-40+ pounds... You should have an outstanding early season with these "Columbia Myths" "ALL" over WCVI and SVI. North of Estevan they will be mostly on the "Highway" - south of Estevan anywhere on the "Banks" all the way into "surf"! SVI mostly closer to shore and especially "Hein" bank! I have it from a reliable source "you" won't catch any at "Sooke", "haven't been any there for 40 years!" But, I would still try off the point! :)

These will start showing sometime around the middle/end of April, the rest throughout the season!

BTW... please turn-in "all" your heads (as many of these Columbians are not clipped). I do need to prove another point! :D:D

Oh and of course... all only IMHO! [:I]
 
as i said, the proof is actually in what is observed returning. the predictions made by NMFS as well as WDFW/ODFW have been bogus for decades. hopefully they are a bit closer this coming year but at the end of the day, no one actually can tell. kind of like the predicted and missing millions of fish from the fraser r. but the pressure is always on from the commercial interests to establish a quota so there you are, a quota now exists.

if more fish show up, everyone will *****. if fewer fish show up, the season will just keep on rolling along as if nothing happened.
 
quote:Originally posted by reelfast

as i said, the proof is actually in what is observed returning. the predictions made by NMFS as well as WDFW/ODFW have been bogus for decades. hopefully they are a bit closer this coming year but at the end of the day, no one actually can tell. kind of like the predicted and missing millions of fish from the fraser r. but the pressure is always on from the commercial interests to establish a quota so there you are, a quota now exists.

if more fish show up, everyone will *****. if fewer fish show up, the season will just keep on rolling along as if nothing happened.
Comparing DFO with NMFS? I am not so sure that is reasonable or I would do that? DFO doesn’t have near the resources, especially when it comes to manpower or budget!

Concerning the Fraser prediction… How in the world can a prediction of 8.7 million be justified for 2009, when DFO “lost” those fish somewhere around Port Hardy in 2007 – that was before they even got to the ocean? And then knowing those fish were never seen, heard of, or found again? I am still questioning that… and would have to agree 100% with searun! Different ballgame… “different politics”, “different agendas”, and “different goals”! We are actually trying to rebuild our stocks!

As far as NMFS, I think one needs to realize, things change over time – especially when referring to “decades”? Sheesh… “decades ago Fraser had 15 million Sockeye and the Columbia had 20 million Chinook! Those missed forecasts referred to “decades” ago are history, are they not! However, as indicated the proof is certainly and always will be, in the “pudding”! What some still miss is technology has and is changing, over those “decades” referred to! In just the last few years, NOAA has spent and learned a lot about salmon! I well still stand by my statement: “NOAA has been "spot on" for the last few years, especially and including last year! If they tell me the salmon will be there... I am a believer, they will be there!” Unless, good “ole” Mother” nature throws us a curveball, which is always subject to happen?

If you really want to see NOAA’s track record, go to: http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ search: chinook returns and start reading! And, I for one won’t be complaining if few more or less fish show up than expected - as stated and pointed out… it is a prediction!
 
quote:Originally posted by kelly

Charlie what roll should i have and off what rock if i only want a columbian :D
Sure would like to see your head info, referring to salmon of course! :D:D
 
easy enough, the proof will be in the observation of what really occurs. i wouldn't, however, be puttin' any bets on these bogus statistical predictions.
 
quote:Originally posted by Charlie

Comparing DFO with NMFS?...

Different ballgame… “different politics”, “different agendas”, and “different goals”! We are actually trying to rebuild our stocks

Unfortunately Bang On Charlie! Whereas NMFS is actually working on (and being reasonably successful) in rebuilding stocks, our sad counterpart is so far behind they will likely never catch up! And given the "agenda" and lack of control, we are now facing the greatest threat our stocks have ever had to face down - "management" itself! [V]

So, for the Bounty we saw last season, and with any luck the predictions hold true and provide us north of the border with yet another this upcoming one, Many Thanks! It certainly IS appreciated!

Cheers,
Nog
 
We need to sh&t can DFO here in BC, take the money and give it to Washington State to manage our salmon runs.
 
profisher, the WA anadramous stocks have been managed so well that at least 2 dozen of them are now extinct or functionally nonexistent. you may not like DFO but i can tell you that what we have here is a disaster in 'management'. NMFS is supposed to be enforcing our law with regard to ESA listed fishes. but guess what, if you want to fish with a gill net which kills everything that comes along, NMFS ain't lookin'!

the statistical models all of these agencies use are so far from the truth of the situation they are virtually worthless. they have historically OVER estimated excapement by anywhere from 40-70% for decades now. and of course, when you overharvest at that level, you decimate the stocks.

but, instead of erring on the conservative side of the model estimates, they always seem to pick bigger numbers. i guess you can tell that if they didn't the commercial interests would be after their collective nuts.

we had the 'salmon manager' for puget sound give a presentation to our fishing club. as you waded through the numbers and realized just how unreliable the data collection actually is, you had some appreciation about the joke which is seasons and limits. the other interesting sort of comment the guy made was '...anything we can sell to the comanagers...', there goes your science here comes your politics.

its a crying shame but i don't see it getting any better down this way.
 
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