SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Hi Fishbrain I will PM some details.
Hi Fishbrain I will PM some details.
fish4all
Well-Known Member
No but if you add your 270,000 friends(just saltwater) and throw some catch and release mortality in with no true monitoring. Someone (ENGO) may think you are contributing to the plunder. Glass houses.
Recreational anglers are not taking enough responsibility for their part in the decline of salmon. Every fishery is pointing the finger at the next. Around and around we go in the same circle, it’s dizzying and painful to read. Each fishery has contributed to the state that the salmon are in. Let’s not pretend we don’t harm or kill bycatch on the ocean. Slot size limits contribute to that more than we all care to share. Harming shakers that get dragged behind a flasher for long stretches don’t help either. Is a coho hatchery or wild? Better land it in a lovely scale removing net and bring it aboard to check it out. Pictures? Let’s take 5 and say cheese. Even fly fisherman are to blame, beaching countless fish while beach fishing. I love fishing, just like I know everyone on this forum does. We all must play ball and take our blame, while also acknowledging to do what’s best for the fish, not our own personal interests. Yes, some may have some hardships due to relying on the sport fishery for income, but how can you blame commercial for being in the same situation as you? They too would have hardships if the commercial sector was shut down. A complete closure would effect each person in their own specific way. It would be awful to lose the right to fish, but what I also read above, which is true, is that it is a privilege to be able to participate in the sport fishery. But there’s one thing that I love more than fishing. I love the fish and everything that they represent and what the opportunities they have brought to our Coast. For decades they have provided us with the ability to fish for them, both in commercial setting, recreational and FN food fishery. It is time for all of us to take a step back and return the favour to these animals that have done so much for us. They have provide us with the the ability to have a career fishing and profit from them existing, but most of all, they have provided us with something more valuable than money, memories of all our catches and the stories we are able to share. I for one would support a complete closure for all fisheries. I know that most likely they will shut recreational fishery down first, which I agree is unfair. If they do go that route, maybe that’s just the first cookie to crumble before they take further and more drastic measures. Maybe if more recreational fisherman supported a complete closure, then they would take us more seriously, rather than being selfish and arguing about who has the “right” to fish. It’s not about us, it never has been, maybe we should realize that.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Just lovely! Now sportfishingbc is becoming a great place for engo reps to solicit the idea of complete closures of sport fishing!
I am no ENGO rep. People are allowed to have their own opinions without being labeled as an ENGO group. To be fair, you all preach about ENGO groups here, but what do you consider this forum to be? Same concept as an ENGO group fighting to support something that you believe in. None of this is any different, you read the same reports and articles that come out and believe what you want from them. You would rather fish until there’s nothing left to fish then even hear about the possibility that a complete closure may be the answer. So let’s not get hypocritical, this is just another ENGO group, just a different name and purpose. Maybe part of the problem is minds that work like yours created this mess of ENGO vs DFO vs Federal Government vs Recreational fisherman vs Commercial fishery. The ‘enemies’ of the sport fishery continue to grow, yet nobody looks in the mirror themselves and takes any responsibility. This isn’t the WWE Royal Rumble. I’ve read your posts over and over again. You and many others have created this ‘us vs them’ mentaility. Label me what you like if that what makes you feel better, but your study of bugs in the river systems and acid rain water will be futile if nothing is done. I fish often so I do understand that what I preach would be impacting my own ability to go fishing, but I feel it could benefit the fish long term, and us as fisherman.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Well Just so fishermen don't get guilted into believing fishing is the cause of depressed fish populations they, you and the engo's need to understand that chemistry has done it.
You can blame fishing all you want but you are just turning a blind eye to the other supporting ecology that died off. There has been a global insect decline which is a clear sign of depressed lower food web structure. Just back in 2013-2014 all the coastal starfish die off, shellfish die down, all kinds of undocumented inshore small species die off. It is obvious that the water just had bad chemistry. It is nobodies fault nor did fishing cause the collapse of coastal ecology. So while you preach the engo idealism that not fishing is the right thing to do you are ignoring what has caused the depressed stocks and the fact that productivity is improving.
In regards to the engo crusade of attacking every industry I would like to share my opinion. While these activist groups imply a patriotic directive they are preying on the people of Canada. ENGO's seem to care only for their cause and do not care who suffers along their way. Why do these people have so little compassion for the Canadian citizens and their ability to have gainful employment??? Then there is the whole whale thing! A few whales that have been poisoned from unfortunate but natural circumstances are more important than the all the people who make their livelihoods on fishing. ENGO's are so stuck up and hateful to Canadians that they don't even care to know why the whales are sick! Let's just get fishing closed so we can feel like we did something good and the hell with the people seems to be the engo mentality. I feel anyone who supports that mentality has total disregard for their fellow Canadians and are only going to pollute others into thinking in the same manor. Another BS engo trait is that they must blame human activities on every little change in the environment from depressed ecology to changing climate. This world has gone thru several mass extinctions yet any change now in productivity or climate has to be caused by man??? Again another aspect where they hate and blame rather than look for truth and credible science.
It also sucks the hear the sport fishermen blaming the herring fishermen for the situation. Has it become the Canadian way to continuously crap on our neighbors? Apparently engo mentality runs deep into the sportfishing community too. Well as you all sign petitions and push for stopping herring fishing you are also alienating fishermen who we should all stand together to save each of our abilities to fish. The engo's are after us all.
Kyle as you say to "look in the mirror" I wonder if you do? If you do is there a person who cares about Canadian people or is there a person who cares more about closing fishing with the chance it will save salmon and whales?
As for your comments on ecology/insect decline, I know you are more knowledgeable in that field than I, therefore you are the victor, there is also another thread that focussed entirely on that, which I have read and learned from.
To comment on ENGO’s they, just like us preach and preach for their causes and more often then not, are able to make changes happen by putting pressure on the government. Maybe the hate from this forum towards them is more of a jealousy towards their ability to actually get changes made and get the attention of the government. Instead of trashing them, maybe as collective group, you should be reaching out to them and get advice on how to accomplishment what you have yet to be able to do, which is get the attention of those that matter.
I originally joined this forum to learn more about fishing and fish in general. More often than not it’s just conflicting arguments and turns into personal attacks more than anything. If I were the government, I would not take recreational fisherman serious either. From what I gathered most of us are just egotistical jerks that would rather bicker and talk down to one another than to actually try and do something meaningful or make a sacrifice that is needed to help out our declining salmon. It’s time to curb your excuse about caring about Canadians and those with jobs in the industry and think about something else than the human population for once. If you volunteer at a hatchery, and you say ‘I’ve volunteered for 30 years!’ Well, good for you. But that’s been only to benefit your ability to continually fish every year, not so much to benefit the fish. Which, I am also a hypocrite as well, just haven’t hit that 30 year mark yet.
I most definitely do look in the mirror. I have made as many reasonable changes in my every day life to try and make a lesser impact on the environment. I also do feel like I am part of the problem when I am not able to incorporate a change into my life that would benefit the environment. But I will say that if try to attempt to make a living off of available natural resources, that sooner or later you have to accept the possible end to that resource, which will then impact your livlihood.
In my personal opinion, the only way to truly save the salmon in the long run, is to stop fishing temporarily. You can blame fish farms, seals and sea lions, other fisheries and the environment, but where we are is the reality. Fish farms aren’t going anywhere, PRV is here to stay it will be forever embedded in future generations of fish, seals and sea lions will continually increased to the point of their collapse, the environment will do its natural heating and cooling, and humans will be the only ones with the ability to actually help and make a difference. Preach science all you want and I will read it, Girl Scouts honour, but over half the things that those papers are written about, we are unable to change. So why not do the one thing that we actually have the capability to do that could make a difference?
Edit: Last post.
To comment on ENGO’s they, just like us preach and preach for their causes and more often then not, are able to make changes happen by putting pressure on the government. Maybe the hate from this forum towards them is more of a jealousy towards their ability to actually get changes made and get the attention of the government. Instead of trashing them, maybe as collective group, you should be reaching out to them and get advice on how to accomplishment what you have yet to be able to do, which is get the attention of those that matter.
I originally joined this forum to learn more about fishing and fish in general. More often than not it’s just conflicting arguments and turns into personal attacks more than anything. If I were the government, I would not take recreational fisherman serious either. From what I gathered most of us are just egotistical jerks that would rather bicker and talk down to one another than to actually try and do something meaningful or make a sacrifice that is needed to help out our declining salmon. It’s time to curb your excuse about caring about Canadians and those with jobs in the industry and think about something else than the human population for once. If you volunteer at a hatchery, and you say ‘I’ve volunteered for 30 years!’ Well, good for you. But that’s been only to benefit your ability to continually fish every year, not so much to benefit the fish. Which, I am also a hypocrite as well, just haven’t hit that 30 year mark yet.
I most definitely do look in the mirror. I have made as many reasonable changes in my every day life to try and make a lesser impact on the environment. I also do feel like I am part of the problem when I am not able to incorporate a change into my life that would benefit the environment. But I will say that if try to attempt to make a living off of available natural resources, that sooner or later you have to accept the possible end to that resource, which will then impact your livlihood.
In my personal opinion, the only way to truly save the salmon in the long run, is to stop fishing temporarily. You can blame fish farms, seals and sea lions, other fisheries and the environment, but where we are is the reality. Fish farms aren’t going anywhere, PRV is here to stay it will be forever embedded in future generations of fish, seals and sea lions will continually increased to the point of their collapse, the environment will do its natural heating and cooling, and humans will be the only ones with the ability to actually help and make a difference. Preach science all you want and I will read it, Girl Scouts honour, but over half the things that those papers are written about, we are unable to change. So why not do the one thing that we actually have the capability to do that could make a difference?
Edit: Last post.
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Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
If you are not an engo solicitor it is hard to tell from your posts. Good on you though for taking the higher road and removing yourself from the fishing population. The fish can use any break they can get.
Many people like myself rely on the fisheries to employ themselves so just stopping fishing to find another job in some other field is not an easy option. Fish farming, fossil fuels, marine merchants or logging is always under attack from engo's so where should local people employ themselves after fishing gets closed? Any ideas?
Personally I have never claimed to have volunteered for any hatcheries or done stream rehab. I have been a fishing guide for over thirty years and contributed to fisheries via taxes, license sales, and other spin off expenditures within fishing activities. Other than that it has only been a little brood stock angling for me.
Anyways Kyle, thanks for your prospective. As honorable of an act that quitting fishing may be I am in belief it is not necessary and would have no benefit to the future of salmon. Having economic worth to salmon is the best way to ensure govt. will care to have them around in the future. Without the people utilizing them who will care for them in the future? If you do care so much about fish then maybe the right thing to do is to understand what it is that caused the populations to collapse and look for ways to mitigate them instead of just closing fishing. Then you would be doing a service to the fish and Canadian citizens who appreciate and utilize them for employment.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
This is certianlly a goss over simplification and misrepresentation of the sport fishery. I assure you that there is plenty of sports fishermen that are for closing sports fishing and ready to fall on their sword.
As I have witnessed in meetings their is strong support for doing what ever we can do to support and help build back these badly beating down fraser river fish.
However they also want assuranced from DFO that other fisheries will also will be
restricted so the recovery will be swift and the pain to all minimised.
DFO has not provided any numbers or any examples of reducing in river gill net fisheries. Without reducing the in river fisheries the pain to the commercial and recreational fisheries will be extended, prolonged and caused irreparable infrastructure damage.
Lower fraser gil net FSC fisheries have the potential to have over 700+ gillnets in the water at one time. Until DFO can provide hard numbers on how this fisheries will be reduced I don't think anyone wants to fall on their own sword and effectively transfer their catch to these fisheries.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
can you provide me with example where an ENGO is pushing for a complete closure??? Don't be mistaken ENGO activists have picked a horse to bet on in this race its just not the recreational or commercial fishery.
Here's what they are saying...
". If Canada does not achieve its rebuilding requirements under the new Pacific Salmon Treaty, it must “backfill” domestically, bearing all of the necessary fishery reductions itself. This may require closing all commercial and recreational Chinook directed fisheries until there is evidence that Chinook rebuilding, Southern Resident recovery, and Aboriginal rights under s. 35(1) of the Constitution Act are likely to be achieved."
They are saying let the whales harvest the chinook in the ocean and let the 700 + gillnets clean up the rest in river.
Does that sound like a closure to you??
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seascene
Crew Member
Like the Bison herds, coral reefs, sharks, 25% of mammals, 30% of bird species... etc etc... But a human being has "the right" to the last bison standing. Sapiens means wise, a virus consumes its host until both are extinct.
My salmon tackle is on hold and I optimistic that some of the best suggestions and thoughtful fishers on this forum are part of the solution and we will get there. Each to his own conscience though.
My salmon tackle is on hold and I optimistic that some of the best suggestions and thoughtful fishers on this forum are part of the solution and we will get there. Each to his own conscience though.
did anyone see the article in the Vanc Sun this week regarding the herring fishery .. Very refreshing to see something in the paper that makes sense..
Hopefully someone in a decision making capacity wil see the light make some changes .. harvesting fish for their eggs, and then grinding up the fish for animal feed .. !! Yet we have declining salmon and killer whale stocks ... And people are supposed to be the smart ones !
However having said that there was another article about the state of our health care and the ability or lack of regarding our elected officials ...WOW are we in trouble !
Hopefully someone in a decision making capacity wil see the light make some changes .. harvesting fish for their eggs, and then grinding up the fish for animal feed .. !! Yet we have declining salmon and killer whale stocks ... And people are supposed to be the smart ones !
However having said that there was another article about the state of our health care and the ability or lack of regarding our elected officials ...WOW are we in trouble !
fish4all
Well-Known Member
What do you do with the head, guts, fins of all the fish you catch? Do you eat them?
lazylump
Active Member
You can hardly compare the wasteful herring fishery to tossing fish heads and guts back in the sea.
I was just looking at some herring receipts from the 50’s the price they received from the buyer was 3-1/2 cents a pound. I know people made a lot of money for a while, but I can’t imagine that fishery nets much any more.
Texadafisher
New Member
I recycle them into crab meat.
california
Well-Known Member
Is this ecological travesty over for another season yet? Sad that a forage species like herring could be almost commercially wiped out along an entire coastline, and we wonder why the species in the food chain above these fish are in trouble, as millions and millions of these fish are once again shovelled into reduction plants to be ground up and dried for animal feed. 
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