bigbruce
Crew Member
I assume you mean the DFO can adjust the plan up or down depending on the poundage caught rather than "we" can adjust it up or down.
Halibut recommendation from SFAB to DFO
- Thread starter Cuba Libre
- Start date
I assume you mean the DFO can adjust the plan up or down depending on the poundage caught rather than "we" can adjust it up or down.
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
uhh thanks glg, but sg has been pushing this for months, there is no way we can remove the upper slot(change it...yes), and have a full season...were all each to our own, and by no means do i mean to pick a fight....thing about new ideas what i ve learned,, is that guides and lodges give us "good " ideas, cause thats your paycheck....every idea that we have had with salmon slots....halibut slots...seasons....u name it, from guides, look way back in the posts....not knockin u, but im tired of new ideas..so we were under our tac for the first year, what about the last 40 years, were everybody kicked the f*ck(including me) out of them...what about the first year the slot was imposed and we were like 500,000 over, and they closed it sept.6th.....nobody seem to remember that...so opening it up to biggies and shoulder seasons and new ideas, and having the possibility of closing early is not for me...but just my opinion, whether im right or wrong......and like u said to me..."You just happen to see only part of that and came to your own conclusion". i could say that likewise..and whats with your post of 10 in sept......SG even wonders about u...regardzzz.....do u even fish in sept.?
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
I feel confused by the above post....think you're referencing two different posters, glg, and gdw. Using your logic that new ideas are not good ideas or even should not be used, the world we live in would be a pretty crappy place. New ideas are essential, and how we can make the situation that much better. GLG nailed it with putting numbers together and showing how it could easily work.
searun
Well-Known Member
Not every group of guides is interested in big fish. In fact a lot supported the current/new regs in place for 2014. IMO, You are quite correct to have concerns over an early season close with regulations that encourage shifting fishing tactics to target larger fish. That is precisely what contributed to going over TAC in prior years resulting in early season closures. I think it is too risky going with much larger fish.
One day when we hopefully return to days of significantly improved TAC, then we can talk about chasing larger fish. Personally I'm in favor of releasing fish over 100 pounds as they are spawning females and are so old they taste like crap anyway, not to mention you are eating a lot of toxins. I personally think the regs choice this year was an excellent compromise and applied some of the experiences learned from last season.
One day when we hopefully return to days of significantly improved TAC, then we can talk about chasing larger fish. Personally I'm in favor of releasing fish over 100 pounds as they are spawning females and are so old they taste like crap anyway, not to mention you are eating a lot of toxins. I personally think the regs choice this year was an excellent compromise and applied some of the experiences learned from last season.
but the rest of the post is my opinion.....but as for new ideas...im not up for that....it just seems to me the guides that have given us our "good ideas", in the past r only looking out for themselves...like look it up man.....go back and see...never once was there an "idea" from an average joe....im not gonna post the ideas of the past years, not into the pissing match...but in your spare time go look up who had the idea of the salmon slot and halibut slot...im not in favor of letting your customers or any guides clients POTENTCIALLY catch big fish everyday, to cut my season short. Theres no way in hell that u(or glg) have any numbers that r true..u guys r going on a hope and a prayer! using "my logic" i can fish all year....with your logic who knows sept. aug...? but that dont matter to u, your not fishin that time anyway(oct-dec)...if your customers want a "lifetime halibut"...get them to buy some quota....im sure ill be shunned for this this...
Aces
Well-Known Member
No, you are right. We did go way over our (sport fishers) quota several times which is why i didn't panic when we were under our quota last year.
I also agree about not keeping the larger halibut. I WOULD fill our quota earlier in the season.
I think this seasons plan is a good one.
133 will probably hit the 80 pound mark.
There is nothing wrong with catching the fish of a lifetime and letting it go.
We had some epic battles last year, took pictures, and popped the hook.
Nobody complains about not being able to bonk that big wild steelhead of a lifetime.
Guys who want to keep these giant Halibut are fools.
I've eaten them. They are garbage compared to the 40's.
133 will probably hit the 80 pound mark.
There is nothing wrong with catching the fish of a lifetime and letting it go.
We had some epic battles last year, took pictures, and popped the hook.
Nobody complains about not being able to bonk that big wild steelhead of a lifetime.
Guys who want to keep these giant Halibut are fools.
I've eaten them. They are garbage compared to the 40's.
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Actually, the idea with shoulder 2012 regs and primetime slot limits was jencourts...pretty sure he is not a guide. Glad you are encouraging me to get clients to buy quota...jeepers.
Jencourt
Well-Known Member
Serengeti is correct. It was my idea and I stand by it as being workable and a good alternative to being locked into a double ended slot for the entire season. And no I am not a guide. Anyone here who has fished with me can tell you I would never make it in that line of work 
My intent was to give the SFAB and DFO an option that would meet all the criteria required as well as meet the desires expressed by the many sfac's and anglers. I feel very strongly about trying to shape a season with as much choice as possible and the least amount of hassle and headache as is responsible. What drove this for me is the increasing number of people that are telling me that they will not or are considering not to travel out here any more because of all the complicated restrictions. These are folks that love to fish and they are telling me the fun is getting taken out of it. Not because they can not kill anything they catch but because they no longer have the ability to choose. Some of these are folks I have fished all my entire life . We have practiced catch and release for most of it. In fact I could continue to fish another 30 years keeping every fish I catch and would likely not come close to the number of fish I have released.Equally as important is the fact that the halibut quota lease continues to rise and I happen to think that providing more choice just might help to curb that a little.
Being able to kill a monster Halibut had NOTHING to do with my working to find an alternative to the double ended season long slot.
This option would have provided a season that would have for at least a portion of it appealed to all demographics and fishing styles within our sector. We could now be looking at a season that provided at the very least a couple months in the spring where anglers, could if they chose, have a little more relaxed fishing experience without the hassles and headache associated with the upper limit. Probably most importantly it would have given back to the angler the choice and ability to make their own decisions regarding what fish they harvest.This option also had all the necessary restrictions in place to protect the TAC from being used too soon or going over by a bunch as in years past. It even had appeal to those who believe letting go large fish will help grow the biomass. It did this by limiting the size during the highest use months.
Contrary to a previous statement of it carrying far too much risk of using too much TAC the numbers clearly showed otherwise. Those numbers used were DFO numbers and the same numbers used to determine this years rules as they are. They were not made up by GLG to suit anyone's needs. Bio risk was included in the figures and risk of angler effort shift is hardly an issue. We had Feb and March under the old rules to limit them. As far as people shifting from summer trips to spring trips. Sorry but we have been told many times before that most travelers can not change for reasons of holidays and weather. Thus we need to ensure that we do not close early. Also the weather in many of the spots where big fish are common is unpredictable at best until we enter June and July. Look at past catch rates for the months of April and May if you doubt this.
I suggested from the beginning that June could have been added to July and AUG if they felt they needed to be more cautious. The numbers showed that as we face a similar season to last that June would not be necessary. None the less it could have been added easily. That would still have provided April and May then the fall to enjoy having choice and less restrictive regs. There was also the option to use a variation to include additional fall months if by some chance it was getting tight after the summer.
Another thing I considered is the fact that the average size fish caught and retained over the last few years is very small. In the grand scheme of things and all anglers considered very few people catch fish over 70lbs anyway. Yes there are areas and anglers that can make this happen with great frequency but over all angler history shows it is a small percentage of the overall TAC harvested.
If the goal is to remove the harvest of large fish from the minds of anglers forever, I am much more in favor of doing so through education and providing them with the knowlage to then make their own choice, than I am of forcing it by using overly restrictive regs. There have been many examples of this posted over the years of Guides providing the info and finding that many choose to release the fish .
Either way the choice has been made and we have our season now. I was happy to see that the SFAB included the request of a possible variation being used to adjust the numbers if it becomes necessary to achieve the goals desired. I have no intention of dwelling on it forever nor do intend to try to turn this into another bashing of the SFAB. I will continue to support the process just as I will continue to challenge it wen I feel it needs to be done and there is a respectful way of doing so.
I only decided to post this because I was seeing way too many uninformed and self serving remarks being made. It is my hope that this post will clear up the intention behind this suggestion and put to rest some misconceptions .
I hope to get out to my favorite spots at least once this year. Like last year I will with each bite be hoping it is not a big one. Some one said " A little more is better than a little less" I can not argue with that.
Tight lines and a safe season to all.
Ray
My intent was to give the SFAB and DFO an option that would meet all the criteria required as well as meet the desires expressed by the many sfac's and anglers. I feel very strongly about trying to shape a season with as much choice as possible and the least amount of hassle and headache as is responsible. What drove this for me is the increasing number of people that are telling me that they will not or are considering not to travel out here any more because of all the complicated restrictions. These are folks that love to fish and they are telling me the fun is getting taken out of it. Not because they can not kill anything they catch but because they no longer have the ability to choose. Some of these are folks I have fished all my entire life . We have practiced catch and release for most of it. In fact I could continue to fish another 30 years keeping every fish I catch and would likely not come close to the number of fish I have released.Equally as important is the fact that the halibut quota lease continues to rise and I happen to think that providing more choice just might help to curb that a little.
Being able to kill a monster Halibut had NOTHING to do with my working to find an alternative to the double ended season long slot.
This option would have provided a season that would have for at least a portion of it appealed to all demographics and fishing styles within our sector. We could now be looking at a season that provided at the very least a couple months in the spring where anglers, could if they chose, have a little more relaxed fishing experience without the hassles and headache associated with the upper limit. Probably most importantly it would have given back to the angler the choice and ability to make their own decisions regarding what fish they harvest.This option also had all the necessary restrictions in place to protect the TAC from being used too soon or going over by a bunch as in years past. It even had appeal to those who believe letting go large fish will help grow the biomass. It did this by limiting the size during the highest use months.
Contrary to a previous statement of it carrying far too much risk of using too much TAC the numbers clearly showed otherwise. Those numbers used were DFO numbers and the same numbers used to determine this years rules as they are. They were not made up by GLG to suit anyone's needs. Bio risk was included in the figures and risk of angler effort shift is hardly an issue. We had Feb and March under the old rules to limit them. As far as people shifting from summer trips to spring trips. Sorry but we have been told many times before that most travelers can not change for reasons of holidays and weather. Thus we need to ensure that we do not close early. Also the weather in many of the spots where big fish are common is unpredictable at best until we enter June and July. Look at past catch rates for the months of April and May if you doubt this.
I suggested from the beginning that June could have been added to July and AUG if they felt they needed to be more cautious. The numbers showed that as we face a similar season to last that June would not be necessary. None the less it could have been added easily. That would still have provided April and May then the fall to enjoy having choice and less restrictive regs. There was also the option to use a variation to include additional fall months if by some chance it was getting tight after the summer.
Another thing I considered is the fact that the average size fish caught and retained over the last few years is very small. In the grand scheme of things and all anglers considered very few people catch fish over 70lbs anyway. Yes there are areas and anglers that can make this happen with great frequency but over all angler history shows it is a small percentage of the overall TAC harvested.
If the goal is to remove the harvest of large fish from the minds of anglers forever, I am much more in favor of doing so through education and providing them with the knowlage to then make their own choice, than I am of forcing it by using overly restrictive regs. There have been many examples of this posted over the years of Guides providing the info and finding that many choose to release the fish .
Either way the choice has been made and we have our season now. I was happy to see that the SFAB included the request of a possible variation being used to adjust the numbers if it becomes necessary to achieve the goals desired. I have no intention of dwelling on it forever nor do intend to try to turn this into another bashing of the SFAB. I will continue to support the process just as I will continue to challenge it wen I feel it needs to be done and there is a respectful way of doing so.
I only decided to post this because I was seeing way too many uninformed and self serving remarks being made. It is my hope that this post will clear up the intention behind this suggestion and put to rest some misconceptions .
I hope to get out to my favorite spots at least once this year. Like last year I will with each bite be hoping it is not a big one. Some one said " A little more is better than a little less" I can not argue with that.
Tight lines and a safe season to all.
Ray
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GLG
Well-Known Member
Ummm.... I don't think you saw the part about how I did the math.
I used DFO model to run the "average Joe" idea to see if it would work.
The whole point of the exercise was defensible numbers based on math.
If we are going to talk to regulators we better have our numbers right.
Now is the dfo model 100% accurate?....no.....
It's a good indicate of, what if this rule is in place how much TAC will we use.
Do slot's work? You bet they do, after all we left 250K lbs to spawn this year.
Ummm.... well maybe not 250K more like 200K.
We need to add in wastage..... a by product of slots.
Ask Alaska how that's working for them this year.
I'm 100% behind you on the idea of a full season and I do hali fish in September.
I"m 100% behind you on not going over our TAC.
I'm not or have ever been a guide.
Ummmm..... huh......
Lets look at the numbers....
| 2012 (Closure Sept 9th) |
| TAC - 1,084,650 lbs |
| Taken - 1,157,879 lbs |
| Over - (73,229) |
<tbody>
</tbody>
| 2011 (Closure Sept 5th) |
| TAC - 947,760 lbs |
| Taken - 1,223,505 lbs |
| Over - (275,745) |
<tbody>
</tbody>
So you see adding that slot knocked us back 200K lbs.
Clearly slots work... they just work too good.
| 2013 (Full Season) |
| TAC - 1,080,000 lbs |
| Taken - 830,000lbs |
| Under - 250,000 |
<tbody>
</tbody>
Clearly we have some room for adjusting the 2014 rules.
DFO agrees and you saw it with the notice.
This is not the first time I have worked with numbers.
I'm confident the numbers I posted (combo slots) are right.
Or shall we say.... As good as the DFO model of calculating.
We need to find a way to remove one of the slots.
The pressure is on to get back to the way we use to fish.
Let's put the fun back into fishing.
We need to build a case that get's us there.
We also need to keep up the fight on allocation.
Something we need to keep in balance.
It's complex but we have many guy's that are working on it.
Question for you.... how do you like the slots on Salmon around Vic?
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GLG
Well-Known Member
ummm... huh
FYI ... 133 is 70 lb..... not 80, 75 lb halibut tastes really good.
Don't call your fellow angler fools, it's not helpful.
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SpringVelocity
Crew Member
I promised myself to stay off here permanent. You all should have noticed I am not a senior member/involved in this forum anymore. But....LOL I would like to express my gratitude publically to all the committee members of SFI, SFAB,SVIAC among many others that have fought for us to start fishing as of Feb. The goal for many has always been to go fishing regardless, and I am so glad what we have, and we always want more. For myself any many other anglers we will be enjoying this for sure, and with good weather and tides next week should be good.
I really hope many of you now put this too bed for the year and go out fishing for a while, and give the computer keys are rest. It is actually amazing how much time I had once I stayed off here LOL....
I have just taken out my anchor gear, and prep hali gear while I write you this....
Take care guys!
AKA High Five
I really hope many of you now put this too bed for the year and go out fishing for a while, and give the computer keys are rest. It is actually amazing how much time I had once I stayed off here LOL....
I have just taken out my anchor gear, and prep hali gear while I write you this....
Take care guys!
AKA High Five
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UkeeDreamin
Well-Known Member
Sorry GLG, have to point out some misinformation - the 83cm slot fish was in place for both the 2011 and 2012 seasons, it wasn't in place in 2010 - all three years we were shut down in mid-September and all three years we went over the TAC by an amount that was well within the large estimation error of the very inaccurate creel survey/overflight guesstimate used.
Does an upper limit eliminating the very large fish that skew the average size fish harvested reduce harvest - absolutely, as has been demonstrated in fisheries the world over. Does an annual limit that reduces total fish harvested reduce total poundage harvested, again, absolutely and again as has been shown in fisheries all over the world. Does a possession slot fish smaller than the long-term fish harvested have any measurable impact, whatsoever? Hasn't been proven in our fishery or in any other managed fishery that I've been able to find or anyone else involved in the halibut regulations has been able to show. Do the comparable numbers between the 2010, 2011 and 2012 seasons show any impact of a possession slot - absolutely not.
Ukee
Does an upper limit eliminating the very large fish that skew the average size fish harvested reduce harvest - absolutely, as has been demonstrated in fisheries the world over. Does an annual limit that reduces total fish harvested reduce total poundage harvested, again, absolutely and again as has been shown in fisheries all over the world. Does a possession slot fish smaller than the long-term fish harvested have any measurable impact, whatsoever? Hasn't been proven in our fishery or in any other managed fishery that I've been able to find or anyone else involved in the halibut regulations has been able to show. Do the comparable numbers between the 2010, 2011 and 2012 seasons show any impact of a possession slot - absolutely not.
Ukee
GLG
Well-Known Member
I got my data from SFAB / DFO on slots and years.
See page 5
http://www.ethink.ca/Recreational Halibut Management Considerations for 2014 with Data Set.pdf
If that's incorrect that changes things.
I'll have a scan on DFO's website to check the source.
OK I just did a scan of the old notices.
Check yourself... somethings wrong as their dates and mine are the same.
Where are you getting this info?
See page 5
http://www.ethink.ca/Recreational Halibut Management Considerations for 2014 with Data Set.pdf
If that's incorrect that changes things.
I'll have a scan on DFO's website to check the source.
OK I just did a scan of the old notices.
Check yourself... somethings wrong as their dates and mine are the same.
Where are you getting this info?
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Jencourt
Well-Known Member
Not that it changes much but 2010 close was Oct 18th.
