Aces
Well-Known Member
They are the same as the guide that buys quota and resells it to clients. The start of a slippery slope.
HALIBUT CLOSURE
- Thread starter expertfisher780
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They are the same as the guide that buys quota and resells it to clients. The start of a slippery slope.
Aces
Well-Known Member
Now this idea makes a lot of sense.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Better not be guides doing that in our area. Would be extremely disappointing.
BearCove
Crew Member
One of my clients sent me this, it is a excerpt from a letter that was sent to him from a lodge on the west coast
"This type of package is a real game changer of a concept in the Sportfishing business in Canada and Alaska. We are offering limits of up to 6 Halibut PP, 8 Salmon PP, 4 Ling Cod PP and 4 Rock Fish PP per with this special 4N 5D fly-in fishing package from either Seattle Washington or Vancouver BC."
As you can see they are offering up to 6 halibut per person per trip.
Only way to do that is to buy quota.
Has to be stopped, terrible system.
"This type of package is a real game changer of a concept in the Sportfishing business in Canada and Alaska. We are offering limits of up to 6 Halibut PP, 8 Salmon PP, 4 Ling Cod PP and 4 Rock Fish PP per with this special 4N 5D fly-in fishing package from either Seattle Washington or Vancouver BC."
As you can see they are offering up to 6 halibut per person per trip.
Only way to do that is to buy quota.
Has to be stopped, terrible system.
Pippen
Well-Known Member
Yup, have seen the letter and also the letter why they shut down early this season.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
I'm all for the stamp solution as long as it's used to buy back quota as opposed to leasing it back from the commercial sector. In reality though we would have to be prepared to pay a substantial amount for it given that they can lease it out annually in perpetuity! For example if you can lease it out for $5 a pound for the next 50 yrs., how much would you want to sell it (assuming you aren't willing it to your kids).
This whole mess could have been avoided if the original owners were either time bombed, say for 20yrs, or it reverted back to the government on the original owners death. As it stands ,a guy would be crazy to give up the gift that just keeps giving. I like the idea of buying back quota, well I should say, could live with it, but the government needs to also get onside and make some changes to make the non fishing owner want to sell. It's not just us that are getting screwed, it's also the actual commercial fisher who's paying a big chunk of his profit to lease quota. We may actually find we have a lot in common with this group and perhaps should look at working together?
This whole mess could have been avoided if the original owners were either time bombed, say for 20yrs, or it reverted back to the government on the original owners death. As it stands ,a guy would be crazy to give up the gift that just keeps giving. I like the idea of buying back quota, well I should say, could live with it, but the government needs to also get onside and make some changes to make the non fishing owner want to sell. It's not just us that are getting screwed, it's also the actual commercial fisher who's paying a big chunk of his profit to lease quota. We may actually find we have a lot in common with this group and perhaps should look at working together?
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fogged in
Well-Known Member
As I understand it the DFO have decided the Sports Fishery get 15% and Commercial 85% of the Halibut catch as determined by International negations each year.
The total amount will vary each year, depending on the perceived health of the Stock.
I also understand that anyone can buy TAC from the Commercial Fishery which comes from their 85%, which I posted details on earlier.
The problem appears to me to be that DFO will not change the allocation of catch and the Commercial sector will not give up any of their 85%, which is not a surprise to anyone!
What I don't understand is what we should expect from the purchase of a Halibut Stamp?
Can someone explain the buying Quota thru a Stamp idea clearly and give us;
an estimate of what the halibut stamp might cost
an estimate of the total amount of money it would raise
where the money will go
how many pounds of halibut it would buy,
how long it might extend the season and
what percentage of the Sport Fisher you expect will buy it?
The way the experimental TAC system works, a $20 stamp wouldn't even get you dinner.
scott craven
Well-Known Member
2 totally different issues here.
Experimental program - anyone can lease quota from DFO for X amount of dollars per lb.
thus the lodges which want to offer their customers a bigger take home.
License stamp funds would go to buy quota back from the commies to add to the sportie's bank
should we need it.
At least that's how I understand it.
Experimental program - anyone can lease quota from DFO for X amount of dollars per lb.
thus the lodges which want to offer their customers a bigger take home.
License stamp funds would go to buy quota back from the commies to add to the sportie's bank
should we need it.
At least that's how I understand it.
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Over a longer period of time you could throw this whole quota system back in DFO's face by buying up all the quota. Commercial owners would then have to lease quota from us instead of Jimmy. (wouldn't make any difference to them...they still fish and cost is the same) Instead of Jimmy's bank account getting fatter we use the annual lease money to directly fund restoration and enhancement efforts. Win win. BTW..this is just discussion and throwing ideas out there to ponder. There are options available and we don't have to be resigned to status quo.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Good explanation of the two issues but it would be better to say lease when you describe the experimental program.
Blacksheep
Member
Well lets put names to letters. I have that letter and it came from Rodgers Fishing Lodge after he closed because of all smoke he blew. Why was he not able to open after the smoke had cleared????????
Charlie415
Crew Member
The issue as I see it is the stamp buys quota from the commies. Isn't that quota available from the year purchased? How do you build up reserves for years when you have a shortfall. Unless the kitty is only used to purchase when needed. Then it could work if the funds are actually put aside and not reallocated for something else.
spring fever
Well-Known Member
The idea seems simplistic to buy quota and add to our Tac-sounds like a great idea til you do the math. When a commie wants to fish Hali and he has no quota it is my understanding he leases quota from one of the 435 quota holders some of whom maybe "slipper skippers". They don't fish their quota but rather lease it "ON A YEARLY" basis for I have heard as much as 5 dollars a lb. What guys are envisioning is buying "in Perpetuity" some quota to get the TAC up for us to 20 or 25%. If the cost is 5 dollars a lb yearly what do you imagine a permanent cost per lb would be? Certainly much more! Then there is the problem that we don't know how many lbs are available from the IPHC. The problem I'm afraid must be solved politically perhaps by a simple law that the quota holder must fish his own quota or sell it. Solves the problem of the slipper skippers and conglomerate's owning a public resource. Gives the rec sector a chance to but Tac PERMANENTLY and gives the commies a way to buy quota and become a new Hali fisherman or to get out of the industry if they want to retire! Just a thought!
Charlie415
Crew Member
I would be more interested in getting rid of the under restriction. Say 4 fish annual limit of which none may exceed 133cm? Two per day with a one day possession limit.
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From what I read here it appears the proposal is to buy quota from the 435 commercial quota holders. That would be a permanent transfer to add to the current recreational 15% quota. Each of the 435 commercial owners must have a percentage of the 85% commercial quota that could be bought permanently. This approach is rational and probably the most realistic way to add to recreational quota.
the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
stop proposing more rstrictions , slots , annual limits , " for a full season to all "
ITS NOT WORKING !! its a joke,,,
if we use up our tac . shut er down early !! so be it , dont really give a **** if a lodge is losing money cause they shut it down on there booked customers , get over it
i just canceled some outta towners that were booked to fly in for a halli fish this wknd ,
explained it to them , they said oh well , we will come earlier for now on , hopefully they get there airline tix refunded !!
theres just not enough for a full season folks , that ship sailed....
we need more tac.... period.
fd
ITS NOT WORKING !! its a joke,,,
if we use up our tac . shut er down early !! so be it , dont really give a **** if a lodge is losing money cause they shut it down on there booked customers , get over it
i just canceled some outta towners that were booked to fly in for a halli fish this wknd ,
explained it to them , they said oh well , we will come earlier for now on , hopefully they get there airline tix refunded !!
theres just not enough for a full season folks , that ship sailed....
we need more tac.... period.
fd
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Charlie415
Crew Member
The gift that keeps giving just not right. Use it or loose it is only way fix this. There is not much of a chance of recs permanently buying back TAC in my opinion. Buying it on a yearly basis is no better than the lodges that buy quota on the experimental program. Only a short term solution. The only way TAC would be available is if the commercial fleet had to fish it or loose it. If not fished it goes back into the pot. Once back into the kitty then split between rec and commie. Percentage to be determined ?
ziggy
Well-Known Member
That's the way I see it, buy,not lease! But having said that we need the government to make an effort to set a price for the permanent transfer so as we don't get gouged buying something people received for free.
Things the government could do that would impact the price and make it reasonable would include. Use it or lose it, a percentage of clawback annually until gifted quota is gone, finite time line of ownership and return to DFO on original owner passing. Otherwise, unless desperate, why would anyone sell? Nice little pension plan and legacy for your children that goes on forever. I think that annuity in perpetuity would shock the average Canadian that has saved and or contributed to a pension plan.
Charlie415
Crew Member
Edited my post. Not wanting one for a possession limit still two with a two per day one day possession limit or one per day with a two day possession limit. Four fish per license is plenty in my opinion. Would be nice to have two per day as it keeps expenses down.
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