HALIBUT CLOSURE

[Tips Up]

The gift that keeps giving just not right. Use it or loose it is only way fix this. There is not much of a chance of recs permanently buying back TAC in my opinion. Buying it on a yearly basis is no better than the lodges that buy quota on the experimental program. Only a short term solution. The only way TAC would be available is if the commercial fleet had to fish it or loose it. If not fished it goes back into the pot. Once back into the kitty then split between rec and commie. Percentage to be determined ?

"Use IT or lose it".
That is/was the real solution here. This is what I lobbied for when this all started.

As I understand it, the gifting of quota ownership was based on catch records from the past for these skippers.
Fine and dandy to let them continue make a living until they were done fishing and retired.
Owning it and being able to lease is where this got all f'd up.

When will the "experimental quota program" be considered a failed experiment and this unfished Canadian resource be made available to Canadians?

 

[chris73]

The new yelloweye restrictions put a lot of hali commies under pressure and some in the northern regions actually may not be able to land their full hali quota because they have to shut down early due to reaching their small rock fish limit. At this time there may be some quota holders ready to sell hali quota just to get out of a dicey business now.

 

[profisher]

I fully agree with use it or loose it. That would make TAC available at a reasonable cost for young guys wanting to start up as a commercial fisherman...especially if they don't have a family member already in the business. I bave no idea what the price is to buy quota outright but just for the sake of an example lets say it is $75.00 per pound. Lets say that 75,000 rec license holders would buy a halibut stamp each year at $25. That is $1,875,000.00 in annual revenue. At $75.00 per pound that would buy us 25,000 pounds.

 

[Jencourt]

Unless I am mistaken? A recent court decision made it very clear that despite any amount of money spent to "purchase Quota" DFO has the legal right to remove portions of that quota and re allocate it with NO expectation of compensation. I believe this decision was held up on a court of appeals. Groups like the BCWF and SFI spent a considerable amount of money making sure the rec sectors views where heard in that case. This was done in the hopes that the ruling would be just as it ended up being. We all saw this as a victory and a small opening to realizing further shift in allocation.

A strong lobby and a ministry sympathetic to another sector could see a future allocation shift go the other way. That is why Buying quota is not a long term solution and will not provide us with a stable predictable fishery in the long term. It will however further entrench us in a cycle of xrq's and purchasing as this will enter all other fish like salmon,prawns ,etc etc.

It is my hope that we will, as a group, look beyond the immediate hurt that the current System and allocation causes us. I do not claim to have the answer, but I do hope we continue to seek solutions that will not ultimately lead to further divisiveness or cause access to be available only to those with the most money. This is the path DFO has sent us on. It is a path we absolutely NEED to try to avoid, if sport fishing is something we would like to leave for future anglers.

Cheers: Ray

 

[profisher]

Ray...The only reason I even brought this up is because it does offer us an alternTe means to get us where we all want to get to ...which is no quota system. I'm suggesting that if we threatened to use our buying power of numbers and started buying up quota there would be more willingness from those who won't budge now to do so.

 

[profisher]

I also strongly believe that you will only keep everyone on the same team if they feel the solutions being offered will see positive reaults in their lifetime. There needs to be some achievable plan that offers this. Then everyone will buy in. Endless negotiating when no one is listening is not a plan.

 

[SpringVelocity]

One of my clients sent me this, it is a excerpt from a letter that was sent to him from a lodge on the west coast

"This type of package is a real game changer of a concept in the Sportfishing business in Canada and Alaska. We are offering limits of up to 6 Halibut PP, 8 Salmon PP, 4 Ling Cod PP and 4 Rock Fish PP per with this special 4N 5D fly-in fishing package from either Seattle Washington or Vancouver BC."

As you can see they are offering up to 6 halibut per person per trip.

Only way to do that is to buy quota.

Has to be stopped, terrible system.

That's terrible. Rogers as you mentioned is going against what we are trying to fight for. They aren't only one. Talk about "me first". If you have to buy quota to survive as business then maybe look at your marketing strategy. If you do then you are a commercial fishing outfit, and are going to sink rest of your comrades.

I applaud the other lodges that aren't going this route and selling an experience instead of meat.

We have to try to not go this route it is very dangerous.

 

[Jencourt]

Ray...The only reason I even brought this up is because it does offer us an alternTe means to get us where we all want to get to ...which is no quota system. I'm suggesting that if we threatened to use our buying power of numbers and started buying up quota there would be more willingness from those who won't budge now to do so.

Thanks for that comment. I think I see what you are suggesting here. Food for thought and that is what these discussions are about.

 

[Tips Up]

I am no expert on any of this. Just interested in the conversation and the Brain Storming...
The Government must see more profit from the Commies than us. Lease your quote out you pay income tax on the income. Then the guy fishing it sells the fish and pays income tax on the sale. Then the consumer buying it pays taxes on the same fish.
Would this keep the Gov form being in support of us and be a reason they support this privatization?

 

[ILHG]

I would be more interested in getting rid of the under restriction. Say 4 fish annual limit of which none may exceed 133cm? Two per day with a one day possession limit.

I agree. The one under is just a waste..

 

[profisher]

They would collect tax on the kicker you would have purchased too ..lol. when the recreational fishery is open and thriving the gov gets it's share.

 

[Tips Up]

Shhhh. Don't tip them off on the kicker. I already paid too much.

I realize they get their share through Sporties. A large share.
But is it easily measurable by the Government Pirates.

Also... I agree with the above. "The one under is a waste"

 

[GLG]

Here is a link to some of the issues that surround Halibut. I recommend this.
The 2012 edition of the profile of British Columbia's fisheries and aquaculture sector.
http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/issues/

It seems we are the 100 pound gorilla in the room but act more like a herd of cats.
It's good to share and brainstorm ideas especially if our member CutPlug is following along. I'll take my cues from him.

 

[ryanb]

There is a halibut license with 720lbs hali and 383lbs lingcod for sale on Pacific boat brokers for sale for $175,000. Since lingcod is probably worth about a third of halibut at market let's call that 850lbs halibut. That's around 200 bucks a pound to buy (not lease) halibut quota.

Not sure how viable it is going to be to buy it at those kind of prices. Our best hope is to have it removed from quota holders somehow.

 

[Gear'n'beer!]

There is a halibut license with 720lbs hali and 383lbs lingcod for sale on Pacific boat brokers for sale for $175,000. Since lingcod is probably worth about a third of halibut at market let's call that 850lbs halibut. That's around 200 bucks a pound to buy (not lease) halibut quota.

Not sure how viable it is going to be to buy it at those kind of prices. Our best hope is to have it removed from quota holders somehow.

Your numbers are for one year only......if you are buying a specified quota that is forever......price goes down exponentially. This is how pattison has made a $hitload of money

 

[Jencourt]

Did a search and found this so far. Can't seem to find anything current. Anyone else,??

 

[ziggy]

Your numbers are for one year only......if you are buying a specified quota that is forever......price goes down exponentially. This is how pattison has made a $hitload of money

Are you sure? Can't see how anybody could buy that quota for one year for 175,000 and make a profit fishing. You'd have to sell the fish for $200 a pound. Fish is pricey but $200 a lb doesn't make economic sense.

 

[ericl]

Take a hard look at the data furnished by GLC (outstanding job as usual!!)

Sportfishing brings 3x the revenue as commercial.

A legal precedent exists to transfer quota at NO COST.

I say ditch the other ideas & focus all efforts on a quota transfer.

 

[ryanb]

Your numbers are for one year only......if you are buying a specified quota that is forever......price goes down exponentially. This is how pattison has made a $hitload of money

I'm talking about the price to buy quota (in perpetuity) , not lease it.

2017 saw 7,450,000 lbs for BC. 15% of which equates to 1,117, 500lbs for the rec sector. If we're talking about increasing that to say 25% through the purchase of quota from commercial quota holders at a rate of $200 per pound that is going to cost $149,000,000. How many people will purchase a halibut stamp? I think 50,000 is a good (albeit completely uninformed) guess. That's $3000 per halibut stamp. Even if you amortize that over 30 years, I just can't see the math working out based on what the market is commanding for the purchase of halibut quota.

Maybe we can at least start the process with a $20 or $30 halibut stamp, but everyone should be aware it would take a VERY long time for the buyback of quota to have any meaningful effect (like probably not in your lifetime) .

As has been mentioned, we need to look at having the quota transferred, not buying it back.

 

[spring fever]

I'm talking about the price to buy quota (in perpetuity) , not lease it.

2017 saw 7,450,000 lbs for BC. 15% of which equates to 1,117, 500lbs for the rec sector. If we're talking about increasing that to say 25% through the purchase of quota from commercial quota holders at a rate of $200 per pound that is going to cost $149,000,000. How many people will purchase a halibut stamp? I think 50,000 is a good (albeit completely uninformed) guess. That's $3000 per halibut stamp. Even if you amortize that over 30 years, I just can't see the math working out based on what the market is commanding for the purchase of halibut quota.

Maybe we can at least start the process with a $20 or $30 halibut stamp, but everyone should be aware it would take a VERY long time for the buyback of quota to have any meaningful effect (like probably not in your lifetime) .

As has been mentioned, we need to look at having the quota transferred, not buying it back.

Exactly Right!! Another problem also crops up in that those lbs are a sliding scale based on what the IPHC says we can catch. You may think you are buying lbs of quota but in fact if the IPHC only allows say 6 million lbs -money for nothing. I've said it before -buying quota won't work--the only thing that will is an increase in the allocation of TAC and also a law requiring the owner of quota to fish it and if not it reverts to the gov't. Allowing new commies into the industry --or not . To make a change of allocation is going to take a lot of noise and a united front on our part and also a push from the Provincial gov't. I realize this is a Federal jurisdiction but the economic fallout is almost purely Provincial so we also need to get this on the provincial agenda as well. My 2 cents