Halibut: Bad News

[Fish-Hunter]

that was hilarious
bahahahahaha yeah money hands over fist i think they have more $ than the drug cartel
yeah last time i looked guides were all driving Bugatti Veyron Super sport cars at 2.4m price tag each lmao

I believe that you will find when you look at it with a clearer mind, that you are WAY off base here, in fact I don't believe that you are even on the field.
Just a tad trigger happy me thinks. "Sight, inhale, control release, squeeze the trigger, you will hit way more targets" this I learned from my Grandfather a great many years ago.

But some like the taste of CROW.

 

[lorneparker1]

that was hilarious
bahahahahaha yeah money hands over fist i think they have more $ than the drug cartel
yeah last time i looked guides were all driving Bugatti Veyron Super sport cars at 2.4m price tag each lmao

Well there is 2 parts to this.
I am not a guide, but may try and be one some day.
Most people when they pick a career They do it for 1 or 2 reasons . Or sometimes both.
Lifestyle and $$$$$
And for me i would be hard pressed to find a better job that incorporates both then guiding for fish.
I am sure getting your name out there and getting in with the locals takes time and maybe rough the first few years(just like any business) but after that, if you have any business sense you should be doing ok. What other job can you work 4-6 months of the year and make 50-80k? Now im not saying all guides make that kind of money some do, some dont and some make alot more. 60k over 6 months is only 2-3 trips a week. And what about all the "tax free" tips, and the guys that pay cash. Im sure like any business some trips dont go on the books. I know you can go to the charlottes or Port hardy, or most any place like that and make 15-30k working for someone else in 3 months for the summer. So i would imagine if you are running your own gig you can do at least twice as good. I dont feel bad for guides, they have the best job in the world. If they dont make enough money, do something else. Its a free world. But any guide worth his salt is usually booked up sometimes years in advance with very few openings. I am sure they are doing ok. And actually im quite jealous. Not many people get the chance to do what they love, and make good money.

I am sure the guys at QCL or the OBMG or Langara, OR any other of these massive operations are riding skate boards to work because they are so broke. Give your head a shake. You know all this chatter over the last few weeks has really opened my eyes. Its funny to me that we hear all the crying how the slipper skippers were "gifted" this and if they dont fish it, it should be pulled from them and given to the Rec sector. I partially agree. However if its given back to the rec sector, then who makes money on it? Well guides and lodges do. For Free. And then the big lodges Hire guides for $25 bucks an hour and they do all the work, while a guy that will never fish and might not even live in the province(the owners and shareholders) sit back and make all the big $$$$. Am I the only one that sees this? Oh the irony. THe owner of a big lodge too me is not very different then a slipper skipper. They both dont fish, THey both make all kinds of money off the resource at the expense of all canadians. A slipper skipper leases his qouta, a lodge owner leases his boats both at rates that are pretty low so they can maximize there profits and the guy doing all the work (the guide or the commie paying big $$$ for the quota) get the shaft. ( i mean qcl for 3 days is 5k and the guide makes what?) Whats the difference?

Lorne

P.s I was referrring to both comercial sectors in this debacle

 

[Pursuit 648]

I believe that you will find when you look at it with a clearer mind, that you are WAY off base here, in fact I don't believe that you are even on the field.
Just a tad trigger happy me thinks. "Sight, inhale, control release, squeeze the trigger, you will hit way more targets" this I learned from my Grandfather a great many years ago.

But some like the taste of CROW.

huhn ? wow this joke went way over some people head here
if anything i expect lorne to be the one maybe take that the wrong way and he didnt! or i missed it if he did saracstic doesnt write well at times I guess; especially in here with some

 

[Fish-Hunter]

I stand corrected! I have listed the quotes (bottom to top) to clarify that from Lorne's leading comment (at the bottom) I was understanding him to be referring to the commercial sector only, and that your take of him referring to the recreational guides was off mark. Seems that you saw in his post what I did not, as he has now stated that he was referring to both the guides and the commercial guys. Seems that tonight perhaps I am the one that was trigger happy.

huhn ? wow this joke went way over some people head here
if anything i expect lorne to be the one maybe take that the wrong way and he didnt! or i missed it if he did saracstic doesnt write well at times I guess; especially in here with some

I believe that you will find when you look at it with a clearer mind, that you are WAY off base here, in fact I don't believe that you are even on the field.
Just a tad trigger happy me thinks. "Sight, inhale, control release, squeeze the trigger, you will hit way more targets" this I learned from my Grandfather a great many years ago.

But some like the taste of CROW.

that was hilarious
bahahahahaha yeah money hands over fist i think they have more $ than the drug cartel
yeah last time i looked guides were all driving Bugatti Veyron Super sport cars at 2.4m price tag each lmao

We need to make time. Not all of us can work 4 months of the year making money hand over fist off the resource then claim poverty, the. Spend the other 8 in meetings making sure there lifestyle is looked after. I get that. But if we don't we can continue to get bent over and ***** on the Internet why things didn't go our way.

 

[lorneparker1]

one thing tho, a lodge owner has put out a bunch of money to build/buy said lodge, along with all the other overhead and permits and liabilities and hassle of staffing,*

Agreed. But so does any other business. However the money is made by putting fish in the tub for free. Why if logging companies that are raping and pillaging our resources have to pay stumpage fees any different? Where is the "stumpage fee" for G/O's? and please dont say its already in the license of the rec angler hes taking out and we are just taxis. LOL

a slipper skipper hasnt had to put out jack, and has no inherint risk of losing anything, they dont even have to have a boat, and most lodge owners i know dont get mega rich off of running a lodge, they are small time mom and pop family operations and the owners also have to work running the day to day operations, and when winter storms happen and stuff has to be repaired and there is also early season set-up without money coming in and only money going out is a bit of a nightmare....not every lodge is a 5k a nite high end lodge....most ppl i know dont own lodges to get rich, they own their lodge cause they love fishing and the ocean*

I agree, but they arent also in it to break even. They want to have a great lifestyle and make money and i dont blame them one bit!! IM happy for them. Really, but im a bit sick of the "woah is me" we are broke attitude i hear sometimes.

id be interested to see some stats on the number of lodges in bc that provide ocean fishing opportunities, and compare how many are like obmg or qcl or langara to places like rodgers or critter cove or chinootka or port hardy typ places.....holmes*

Wouldnt we al,l holmes wouldn't we all!! Rodgers has 14 boats i heard this year. Thats amazing!, but they arent doing it because its fun to have 14 guides working for you. lol

Lorne

 

[Sculpin]

one thing tho, a lodge owner has put out a bunch of money to build/buy said lodge, along with all the other overhead and permits and liabilities and hassle of staffing, a slipper skipper hasnt had to put out jack, and has no inherint risk of losing anything, they dont even have to have a boat, and most lodge owners i know dont get mega rich off of running a lodge, they are small time mom and pop family operations and the owners also have to work running the day to day operations, and when winter storms happen and stuff has to be repaired and there is also early season set-up without money coming in and only money going out is a bit of a nightmare....not every lodge is a 5k a nite high end lodge....most ppl i know dont own lodges to get rich, they own their lodge cause they love fishing and the ocean....just saying.....id be interested to see some stats on the number of lodges in bc that provide ocean fishing opportunities, and compare how many are like obmg or qcl or langara to places like rodgers or critter cove or chinootka or port hardy typ places.....holmes*

This is a give and take thing. The bigger the lodge the more money is involved. I like the little guy with one or two boats. That is who I will stick up for. The big guy's can do it on there own IMHO. We have seen it as well. They can put this stuff out there for there better good without considering the joe public. I think the one's or two's are on the same page however.

 

[Derby]

Well there is 2 parts to this.
I am not a guide, but may try and be one some day.
Most people when they pick a career They do it for 1 or 2 reasons . Or sometimes both.
Lifestyle and $$$$$
And for me i would be hard pressed to find a better job that incorporates both then guiding for fish.
I am sure getting your name out there and getting in with the locals takes time and maybe rough the first few years(just like any business) but after that, if you have any business sense you should be doing ok. What other job can you work 4-6 months of the year and make 50-80k? Now im not saying all guides make that kind of money some do, some dont and some make alot more. 60k over 6 months is only 2-3 trips a week. And what about all the "tax free" tips, and the guys that pay cash. Im sure like any business some trips dont go on the books. I know you can go to the charlottes or Port hardy, or most any place like that and make 15-30k working for someone else in 3 months for the summer. So i would imagine if you are running your own gig you can do at least twice as good. I dont feel bad for guides, they have the best job in the world. If they dont make enough money, do something else. Its a free world. But any guide worth his salt is usually booked up sometimes years in advance with very few openings. I am sure they are doing ok. And actually im quite jealous. Not many people get the chance to do what they love, and make good money.

I am sure the guys at QCL or the OBMG or Langara, OR any other of these massive operations are riding skate boards to work because they are so broke. Give your head a shake. You know all this chatter over the last few weeks has really opened my eyes. Its funny to me that we hear all the crying how the slipper skippers were "gifted" this and if they dont fish it, it should be pulled from them and given to the Rec sector. I partially agree. However if its given back to the rec sector, then who makes money on it? Well guides and lodges do. For Free. And then the big lodges Hire guides for $25 bucks an hour and they do all the work, while a guy that will never fish and might not even live in the province(the owners and shareholders) sit back and make all the big $$$$. Am I the only one that sees this? Oh the irony. THe owner of a big lodge too me is not very different then a slipper skipper. They both dont fish, THey both make all kinds of money off the resource at the expense of all canadians. A slipper skipper leases his qouta, a lodge owner leases his boats both at rates that are pretty low so they can maximize there profits and the guy doing all the work (the guide or the commie paying big $$$ for the quota) get the shaft. ( i mean qcl for 3 days is 5k and the guide makes what?) Whats the difference?

Lorne

P.s I was referrring to both comercial sectors in this debacle

I guess we should start putting a surcharge on lawn mowing next ...

 

[lorneparker1]

I guess we should start putting a surcharge on lawn mowing next ...

LOL

We dont mow lawns. But even if we did there is zero relevance. Answering some of the questions posed over the last few pages might do some good.

Lorne

 

[Sculpin]

lol, fair enough lorne...i just know that all the lodge owners and guides i know certainly arent rich, yer deffinately rite about doing it for the lifestyle, i do what i do for the lifestyle, but first and foremost because i love it and have a passion for what i do, i certainly dont do it cause i expect to get rich,lol, or id be working up at the gold mines or oil fields, no greater feeling than ppl loving what i cooked them and seeing them enjoy it, its deffinately not about the cashola, if i cared about being rich with money i would be doing something else, sometimes being rich has nothing to do with anything monetary, but rich because of ones lifestyle or experiences....holmes*

Great post holmes. I do want to get up your way sometime to crtique your rib's lol!!! I'm a meatatarian and we need to put them to the test so to speak ha ha. Just kidding as I would love to drive up there in the boat just to meet you in person. We could have some drinks and eat your rib's and have a great time!

 

[lorneparker1]

Great post holmes. I do want to get up your way sometime to crtique your rib's lol!!! I'm a meatatarian and we need to put them to the test so to speak ha ha. Just kidding as I would love to drive up there in the boat just to meet you in person. We could have some drinks and eat your rib's and have a great time!

If im not burned at the stake by then...
Pick me up on the way

Lorne

 

[Sculpin]

If im not burned at the stake by then...
Pick me up on the way

Lorne

LOL your good to go buddy. Let's go fishing!!!!

 

[lorneparker1]

Come on Lorne...Are you trying to say that when I hire a guide or rent a boat that my recreational fishing licence should no longer be valid? Last time I hired a guide I caught the fish not him!! I'm not interested in paying a user fee unless it goes towards stewardship. Last count had 6 lodges and several charters between Pt Hardy and Hakai tits up! Making the rest charge their clients for quota will surely help the situation!!!

NO im not saying that at all.... what i am saying is, the "we are a taxi" doesnt cut it for me. Neither does the "its all about the experience". If people would just be up front and honest and say you know what, yes we are in it for the money. Why the hell else would we be doing it? Doesnt every business wnat to make money? We have a sweet fricking gig here and we want to do everything we can to maximize our season and our wallets. JUST LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS WOULD. Im really sorry you guys got f'ed over in the process, but this was my livelihood and if you were in my shoes you would have done the same. I am sorry, but lets move on. That ould have been prefect. Instead trying to spin things and try to make people feel sorry for them, they might earn some respect. I stole this post from another forum, but i couldnt have said it any better.

So if I want to open up a charter logging buisness where I take people out into the crown forest to show them how to log one of canada's other resources so they can "experience" getting the wood to build thier own home, that would be A-O-K and I would not need to pay any stumpage or royalties as I am only providing an "experience".......get your head back out into the sun. If you make a living off of a resource that as you put it is owned by every Canadian citizen you should pay for that opportuniity, all the other resource users do......what makes the lodges and guides so extra special .......

Anyhow, im off to bed up early going to try and find a steelhead to kill.

Lorne

 

[Aces]

Well there is 2 parts to this.
I am not a guide, but may try and be one some day.
Most people when they pick a career They do it for 1 or 2 reasons . Or sometimes both.
Lifestyle and $$$$$
And for me i would be hard pressed to find a better job that incorporates both then guiding for fish.
I am sure getting your name out there and getting in with the locals takes time and maybe rough the first few years(just like any business) but after that, if you have any business sense you should be doing ok. What other job can you work 4-6 months of the year and make 50-80k? Now im not saying all guides make that kind of money some do, some dont and some make alot more. 60k over 6 months is only 2-3 trips a week. And what about all the "tax free" tips, and the guys that pay cash. Im sure like any business some trips dont go on the books. I know you can go to the charlottes or Port hardy, or most any place like that and make 15-30k working for someone else in 3 months for the summer. So i would imagine if you are running your own gig you can do at least twice as good. I dont feel bad for guides, they have the best job in the world. If they dont make enough money, do something else. Its a free world. But any guide worth his salt is usually booked up sometimes years in advance with very few openings. I am sure they are doing ok. And actually im quite jealous. Not many people get the chance to do what they love, and make good money.

I am sure the guys at QCL or the OBMG or Langara, OR any other of these massive operations are riding skate boards to work because they are so broke. Give your head a shake. You know all this chatter over the last few weeks has really opened my eyes. Its funny to me that we hear all the crying how the slipper skippers were "gifted" this and if they dont fish it, it should be pulled from them and given to the Rec sector. I partially agree. However if its given back to the rec sector, then who makes money on it? Well guides and lodges do. For Free. And then the big lodges Hire guides for $25 bucks an hour and they do all the work, while a guy that will never fish and might not even live in the province(the owners and shareholders) sit back and make all the big $$$$. Am I the only one that sees this? Oh the irony. THe owner of a big lodge too me is not very different then a slipper skipper. They both dont fish, THey both make all kinds of money off the resource at the expense of all canadians. A slipper skipper leases his qouta, a lodge owner leases his boats both at rates that are pretty low so they can maximize there profits and the guy doing all the work (the guide or the commie paying big $$$ for the quota) get the shaft. ( i mean qcl for 3 days is 5k and the guide makes what?) Whats the difference?

Lorne

P.s I was referrring to both comercial sectors in this debacle

Lorne...... you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

Operating a fishing charter business is one the highest overhead gigs there is. I've been in the racket for 27 yrs and i'll bet you have a **** pile more money in the bank than i do. I never had to support a family and for most of my career had a winter job because my decision to be a guide was based on my love of the sport and my desire to teach people.......not to get rich, cuz i ain't. Now my winter job is gone and my line of credit is skyrocketing.

I take great exception to anyone saying otherwise.

Oh yeah, try and be booked years in advance (LOL, such a misguided statement) with all the economic uncertainty going on in this world. I regularly win the derbies around here and have a great reputation on the water around here and i have lots of openings for primetime this summer. How about you book me for late August or Septmber? I could sure you the booking to make my Bentley payments.

 

[lorneparker1]

Lorne...... you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

Operating a fishing charter business is one the highest overhead gigs there is. I've been in the racket for 27 yrs and i'll bet you have a **** pile more money in the bank than i do. I never had to support a family and for most of my career had a winter job because my decision to be a guide was based on my love of the sport and my desire to teach people.......not to get rich, cuz i ain't. Now my winter job is gone and my line of credit is skyrocketing.

I take great exception to anyone saying otherwise.

Oh yeah, try and be booked years in advance (LOL, such a misguided statement) with all the economic uncertainty going on in this world. I regularly win the derbies around here and have a great reputation on the water around here and i have lots of openings for primetime this summer. How about you book me for late August or Septmber? I could sure you the booking to make my Bentley payments.

Hi Shawn,

That wasnt directed at you. I never said everyone gets rich. I said some do and some dont. What i did say is that no one would do it if you didnt make anything.Or at least enough to support yourself. The big shooters like OBMG and QCL and the like, sure as hell arent borke. . If you got a gig as awesome as a charter business you may be (as well as I) to make a little less because of how great the lifestyle is. Money isnt everything for everyone. Why does fishing charter business have have so much over head? Not a lodge, but a charter business. ive heard that few times now, and I am having trouble getting my head around it. I will compare it to say a tree cutting business.

I mean you obviously have a boat. But that is a capital expenditure, something you can amortize over 5 years or so.
They have a new big truck same thing, ammortized over 5 years.

You have to out fit the boat with riggers and electronics and everything, Again an expenditure to be amortized
They have to out fit the truck with a chipper, and a bin and so on.

You have to rent moorage and maybe a small office.
THey have to rent an office. And space to store the vehicle.


YOu have to have all your licenses, which is a few 1000, they have to have thiers (first aid, competnecy courses, health and safety, whims) etc.
Then the day to day cost of fixing things, and gas and buying bait. All of which are the cost of doing business, having a website. etc.

I am having trouble seeing why a charter business is different then basically any other business out there?

 

[Englishman]

Quit your crying already!!! You still haven't answered my question.

I won't be selling my boat anytime soon. I love boating it is a West Coast thing. There will always's be some fish to catch as well. Get involved with the groups that are trying their a**'s off to help YOU. What have YOU done to try to be involved with these group's that have done all the ground work and are currently working in YOUR favour.

Again I will ask you. Are you a member of the BCWF? more so are you a member of your local fish and game club?

I'm not raggin on you. I am just saying get involved with the organizations that are in place that have done the ground work and are in the front lines with the process that get's result's.

We don't need rogue groups etc. that just split up the process. We need ONE VOICE. United we stand.

Sculpin,
Well, I’m not about to sell my boat just yet either. I use the phrase as a metaphor, as have others on the forum, to illustrate my lack of faith in the ultimate success of the political process.

I am not currently a member of BCWF. Instead, to date I have supported some environmental organisations and have donated time and money to the anti-fish feed lot cause. I attended the “Get Out Migration” protest in Victoria organised by Alexandra Morton. There were at least 4000 people there, maybe more (contrary to the fabrications of the press who quoted numbers like 1000). If you were there you would know this too.
I also put time in at the local Salmon Enhancement Society.

I do write letters to MP’s and sign petitions such as the one to save the Kokish river from run-of-the-river power project. So to that extent I am still involved in the “political” process.

However, when I look around at the major accomplishments of the environmental organisations, most have come through legal actions. There are many examples of taking polluters to court (often in the East) and the recent Federal Court of Appeal case won by Ecojustice to protect the orca habitat was a classic. The Minister was told he did not have “discretion” in this regard – it was the law!

As many others have pointed out on this forum and elsewhere, DFO was probably illegal in “gifting” a common property to 436 license holders and is probably allowing its legal mandate to manage fisheries be abrogated by its promotion of fish farms. If that is true, then there is a legal case (and I realise a legal opinion would have to be sought, which is what we are discussing).

I agree we have to stick together, that is why I emphasised “collectively” in my last post. If BCWF want to engage in a legal action and start raising funds to do so, I’m there. If not it will take some other means to seed the legal process around which I would hope most recreational fishing groups could coalesce.
P.S. I will be attending the SFAB meeting in Victoria on March 21[SUP]st[/SUP] .

 

[Theb55]

Can you imagine the position of our recreation Hali fishing if only 20% of the energy vented in this forum preaching to the converted were directed at making changes. I guess you guys might feel better for venting but I hope you never get stuck in mud or snow. I can only assume that DFO are pleased when recreational fishermen fight with commies and guides. I would assume I had it just about right. I still say we should challenge the legality of the road, not the speed limits or by voting which cars can drive the road. But, for those who just want to vent, go for it.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Lorne...... you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

Operating a fishing charter business is one the highest overhead gigs there is. I've been in the racket for 27 yrs and i'll bet you have a **** pile more money in the bank than i do. I never had to support a family and for most of my career had a winter job because my decision to be a guide was based on my love of the sport and my desire to teach people.......not to get rich, cuz i ain't. Now my winter job is gone and my line of credit is skyrocketing.

I take great exception to anyone saying otherwise.

Oh yeah, try and be booked years in advance (LOL, such a misguided statement) with all the economic uncertainty going on in this world. I regularly win the derbies around here and have a great reputation on the water around here and i have lots of openings for primetime this summer. How about you book me for late August or Septmber? I could sure you the booking to make my Bentley payments.

Very well said on the overhead...it's huge...especially with 31 and 27ft boats...a lot of guys don't understand this aspect at all.

 

[Aces]

Very well said on the overhead...it's huge...especially with 31 and 27ft boats...a lot of guys don't understand this aspect at all.

Yes, they see what we charge and think "oh, those guys must be driving Bentleys with all the money they are raking in". It's hilarious!! I've seen over 30 guys come and go in my area, trying to be a guide and then realizing that there isn't nearly the money in it that they thought............doh!!

 

[Sculpin]

Sculpin,
Well, I’m not about to sell my boat just yet either. I use the phrase as a metaphor, as have others on the forum, to illustrate my lack of faith in the ultimate success of the political process.

I am not currently a member of BCWF. Instead, to date I have supported some environmental organisations and have donated time and money to the anti-fish feed lot cause. I attended the “Get Out Migration” protest in Victoria organised by Alexandra Morton. There were at least 4000 people there, maybe more (contrary to the fabrications of the press who quoted numbers like 1000). If you were there you would know this too.
I also put time in at the local Salmon Enhancement Society.

I do write letters to MP’s and sign petitions such as the one to save the Kokish river from run-of-the-river power project. So to that extent I am still involved in the “political” process.

However, when I look around at the major accomplishments of the environmental organisations, most have come through legal actions. There are many examples of taking polluters to court (often in the East) and the recent Federal Court of Appeal case won by Ecojustice to protect the orca habitat was a classic. The Minister was told he did not have “discretion” in this regard – it was the law!

As many others have pointed out on this forum and elsewhere, DFO was probably illegal in “gifting” a common property to 436 license holders and is probably allowing its legal mandate to manage fisheries be abrogated by its promotion of fish farms. If that is true, then there is a legal case (and I realise a legal opinion would have to be sought, which is what we are discussing).

I agree we have to stick together, that is why I emphasised “collectively” in my last post. If BCWF want to engage in a legal action and start raising funds to do so, I’m there. If not it will take some other means to seed the legal process around which I would hope most recreational fishing groups could coalesce.
P.S. I will be attending the SFAB meeting in Victoria on March 21[SUP]st[/SUP] .

Thanks for being involved Englishman. I just get frustrated about the whole thing. Sorry for the rant.

Cheers,
John

 

[Aces]

Thanks for being involved Englishman. I just get frustrated about the whole thing. Sorry for the rant.

Cheers,
John

Got your trailer finished yet? Better hurry before the quota is filled