Aces
Well-Known Member
The Engo's will fight this tooth and nail
gold river
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OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Why, what are they proposing to do?
Aces
Well-Known Member
They have fought every proposal to enhance rivers as they are on the Wild Fish mantra.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I know many people’s jaws that would drop to the floor if the province even considered this. From what I’ve been told they are more anti hatchery than most ENGOs.
sly_karma
Crew Member
Meanwhile you have runs rebounding like Okanagan sockeye due to interventions like fish passage structures, water flow management software tools, streamside enhancement, weir removals, and yes, a hatchery added some years into the recovery. The fisheries management people there take the approach that addition of hatchery fish can speed up the process, but only once the habitat and passage issues have been addressed. No substitute for healthy core of wild fish.
With sockeye going well they have started small programs of Chinook and steelhead releases in the same system. 60,000 Chinooks counted across Wells Dam this year, with the Okanagan very much the major tributary system in that section of the Columbia and no passage further upstream. Promising.
Critical difference in the Okanagan is the funding coming from the US hydro utilities direct to FN fisheries organization. Not much public discussion about it, they just get in there and do the work. With provincial or federal permits where required, but those are a lot easier to get apparently when no funds are requested.
With sockeye going well they have started small programs of Chinook and steelhead releases in the same system. 60,000 Chinooks counted across Wells Dam this year, with the Okanagan very much the major tributary system in that section of the Columbia and no passage further upstream. Promising.
Critical difference in the Okanagan is the funding coming from the US hydro utilities direct to FN fisheries organization. Not much public discussion about it, they just get in there and do the work. With provincial or federal permits where required, but those are a lot easier to get apparently when no funds are requested.
from the David Suzuki Foundation:3
davidsuzuki.org
Join the conversation about salmon hatcheries
Salmon hatcheries are not a silver bullet for wild fish problems, and that government spending should go to other programs, like community-led science and habitat restoration.
davidsuzuki.org
pescador
Well-Known Member
Geez, I read it. They sure sound anti-hatchery to me. You picked out the 20 words in that entire article that they put in to not offend FN hatcheries.from the David Suzuki Foundation:3
Join the conversation about salmon hatcheries
Salmon hatcheries are not a silver bullet for wild fish problems, and that government spending should go to other programs, like community-led science and habitat restoration.
sly_karma
Crew Member
It's a tough one. Do you keep a critically endangered run on life support in the form of hatchery fish, or let it become extinct? If there is work being done to correct key habitat or passage issues, then it might be worth it for a few years. The Suzuki Foundation article is correct in pointing out the risk of limited genetic diversity in a population. But an attempt to restart an extinct run from solely hatchery raised fish would be even worse.
On the other hand, if habitat restoration is going well and wild fish populations are making a modest comeback, augmenting this with a hatchery program should speed up the process and provide a buffer against harder to control environmental factors such as adverse ocean temperatures. Sensible hatchery practices are critical, particularly limiting yields at egg take so that hatchery fry have a wide base of genetic material.
Hatcheries can't substitute for the hard work of streamside enhancement, removal of barriers to fish passage, harvest controls and reduction of pollutants; those take time, money, community buy-in and political dexterity. But hatcheries can be part of the solution provided efforts are being made on other fronts as well.
On the other hand, if habitat restoration is going well and wild fish populations are making a modest comeback, augmenting this with a hatchery program should speed up the process and provide a buffer against harder to control environmental factors such as adverse ocean temperatures. Sensible hatchery practices are critical, particularly limiting yields at egg take so that hatchery fry have a wide base of genetic material.
Hatcheries can't substitute for the hard work of streamside enhancement, removal of barriers to fish passage, harvest controls and reduction of pollutants; those take time, money, community buy-in and political dexterity. But hatcheries can be part of the solution provided efforts are being made on other fronts as well.
Geez, that response sounds anti-facts to me. All the points made on that website are supported by a variety of scientific papers published over an extended period of time.
Saying that salmon hatcheries have a ton of downsides besides producing a large quantity of fish is different than being anti-hactery... that's called being rational and evidence based decision making.
BTW hatchery fish to support a recovery (not necessarily a sport fishery) of Gold Winter steelhead doesn't require a new hatchery, that can be done at an existing hatchery. There is a Provincial hatchery facility on the Island as well as a number of Federal hatcheries.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Gold River Lament
You need to understand the past to navigate the future. I moved to Vancouver Island too late to see the best it ever had to offer a steelhead fisherman. Major systems such as the Cowichan, San Juan…
steelheadvoices.com
". No one is going to restore anything approaching the natural hydrology of the Gold watershed. Nature could do that for us in 70 or 80 years if we downed tools today. And the chances are? There are probably lots of isolated little make work projects that could be undertaken but it just isn’t realistic to postulate that will make a detectable difference to steelhead production. Fixing broken habitat is orders of magnitude more difficult and costly than protecting it ever would have been. That isn’t a condemnation of those whose job it was in past to protect and conserve fish habitat in areas proposed for logging, nor is it one for those whose missionary zeal is now focused on “studies”. Everyone gets to play the cards they are dealt. Just don’t bet on anyone holding a winning hand. Go ahead, do those snorkel counts, do those juvenile abundance surveys, and scratch you head over the logging impacts if you ever get around to looking at them. Do all that for several years. But, before you do, think about how the results of any of those undertakings can be applied to improve the steelhead stock status."
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I recently listened to a presentation from a habitat biologist that talked about some passage issues on different systems, Often there is two genetically different stocks that happen one that can migrate above it and one that stays below it. Often these two stocks are different in run timing ie summertime vs fall or spring ect.. I can't remember the details but he said there was an instance that they removed the blockage and it basically erased one of the genetically distinct stocks.
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The Gold is only an hour from my doorstep ! less than 3 hours from a 150,000 people ... I wouldn't say its the middle of nowhere..
SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
Lots of future plans by the fn for that area
Maybe more focus could be put on rivers like the Cowichan, Nanaimo, Englishman, Big Q, Little Q, Oyster, Quinsam, Salmon, Nimpkish. Just saying there are plenty of candidates in the "work needs to be done" category that would get more return on investment due to there proximity to population.
Given the general decline in winter runs coastwide and hatchery steelhead on the Stamp, I find it highly unlikely that meaningful dollars will be spent on steelhead on any of these systems.
It looks like things will continue to limp along as they have for the last 20 years.
Given the general decline in winter runs coastwide and hatchery steelhead on the Stamp, I find it highly unlikely that meaningful dollars will be spent on steelhead on any of these systems.
It looks like things will continue to limp along as they have for the last 20 years.
Aces
Well-Known Member
The good leg that’s been doing all the work is running out of steam
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