Fishing a hoochie (3’ leader) versus a spoon (6’ leader)...

[alyaz]

So I tested this again tonight. Had a 75 cm Chinook in the boat within 45 mins with a spoon. With spoons I get no line twisting, with the hoochies I get a frickin mess! Is it because the hoochie isn’t heavy enough or something? I checked my swivels and all are turning freely...

 

[tubber]

Was it the same flasher? Was it on the same rod and reel?
If not, is it possible the reel was loaded by pulling the line off the end of the spool, instead of letting it unroll?

 

[RiverBoy]

this has to be a hardware issue. one of your terminal swivels either side of the flasher or beads or whatever must be compromised. i am predominantly a hootchie fisherman and the only time this happens is when one of my swivels gets bunged up with weeds, jellies, algae or rust. rust is a major. i had one flasher i loved which kept jacking me around and the swivels felt free. i put a shot of wd-40 in the swivel and spun them hard under load. problem solved

 

[Slabbedout]

I had a flasher that was deadly, don’t know if it was bent or curved just right or what. It got to a point you couldn’t fish it though cause it would just come back up like a crocheted mess.

Swivels where shot, plating or whatever must have come off and then salt just seized them.

I am curious what guys are using off their main line for swivels / snaps ? And where they are buying them ?

I have almost exclusively used the best stainless bead chain swivels I could buy ( either Trotac or Redden net ) but there must be something better ?

 

[fishchaser]

I have been using Sampo swivels and bead chains for years and have had great success. Even though the swivels are ball bearing you should always apply WD-40 after using them.

 

[CIVANO]

 

[ab1752]

So I tested this again tonight. Had a 75 cm Chinook in the boat within 45 mins with a spoon. With spoons I get no line twisting, with the hoochies I get a frickin mess! Is it because the hoochie isn’t heavy enough or something? I checked my swivels and all are turning freely...

Are you using a swivel inside your hoochie with a siwash hook? No probs here and I use a 40 pb test leader max 28"

 

[Rockfish]

I fish plastic a lot without problems and love them. Over all they are the most effective fishing method we have available to us and work well on all Pacific salmon species and at all depths -very versatile but they have no action of their own. You either have a swivel problem (most likely and often on the flasher) or a combination swivel and leader problem. Hootchies need a very heavy leader to transfer energy and motion to it from the flasher. 48 lb to 60 lb test is not too much and I usually use 50lb test. Salmon in the ocean are not leader shy. I also want that leader to be of the hard abrasion resistant type of monofilament. If it is soft and supple that is a good mono for a casting but not good for resisting twisting and transferring energy/motion to the hootchie. As a bonus, it also resists teeth abrasion related break offs. My plastic rigs have added weight to them by the way they are rigged with an insert, large head bead and a small internal swivel attached to a large single stainless hook. If hootchies are riged heavier, to keep them having a good lively action you either shorten the leader a little, or go a little faster, or a combination of the two. When I have had a flasher swivel go bad, it is usually on the line end of the flasher, not the leader end and yes it can come up with twisted up main line.

PS With your side by side testing between the spoon and the hootchie, have you tried exchanging the flashers between the two and see what happens. For that matter change the rod as well, as it could be the main line terminal swivel.

 

[RiverBoy]

 

[Trophy]

All of the above are great reply's/tips and could be part of your problem. Is the flasher still in the clip?.....As a added factor, watch your decent with the riggers. Too fast can cause twists. Nothing worse than trolling for 20 minutes only to find your rig all twisted!

 

[Dogbreath]

Standard ball bearing swivel with Duo lock snap bought online individually probably Ebay you might find something locally but offerings are slim & over priced.

Bead chains and all their variations are good for adding a bit of weight but largely useless under load.

I lubricate these at season's end with Super Lube Oil or Liquid Wrench but after a freshwater soak/dry.

 

[alyaz]

Thanks gang.

I actually used the same flasher and swivels with the spoon (6’ leader) and then retied the hoochie (3’ leader) and got the twisting. I used the same setup exactly so that’s when I started wondering.

Sorry, I am a freshwater guy who grew up in the interior so have taught / learned this salmon stuff by trial and error since moving out here. Always fish by myself.

Can someone show me your hook up to a hoochie and your hookup to a spoon? Are you saying that you are using a swivel / clip to the hoochie or spoon and not tying your leader straight to the ‘lure?’ These rigs posted above are flasher hookups, right?

 

[ab1752]

These 2 crappy hoochies have been money all season for me...2 beads, 40 lb test, good quality swivel then single gama 3/0 siwash hook. I troll about 3 knots SOG plus / minus 10%...

 

[ab1752]

Here's a Jughead I just bought to give it a try since I thought the ones I had been dragging around looked pretty sad...it was really awesome so I went and bought 3 more...

 

[ab1752]

Since it was already rigged how I like mine, albeit with a seemingly lighter leader, I just stepped on the hook barb and went at it...stupid mistake, argh...first strike almost split the hook. So lesson learned, the gama siwash was swapped in right away.

 

[alyaz]

Thanks again.

So I brought the ‘suspect’ flasher home and played with it a bit. Sure enough the swivel (front of flasher to main line) had a definite issue. You could spin it freely but load it up and it would catch. So another good lesson learned. While at it I changed them all up. Not sure why it didn’t seem to twist up the main line when I used a spoon tho...

 

[alyaz]

Since it was already rigged how I like mine, albeit with a seemingly lighter leader, I just stepped on the hook barb and went at it...stupid mistake, argh...first strike almost split the hook. So lesson learned, the gama siwash was swapped in right away.

Thanks. Guess I should try that colour too, up here white seems to be the money, but ...

 

[prodjsaig]

Rather not fully confident fisher here ive actually fished chovies with a 28” leader and i did catch and lost a monster due to a burr on the flasher eye (no swivel that time). Now i use 5 feet.

Do you recommend 30lbs test for spoons and teaser heads? And is naked spoon a good idea as well?

 

[CIVANO]

40# fluorocarbon for me for spoons and heads
50# for hoochies

 

[ab1752]

Rather not fully confident fisher here ive actually fished chovies with a 28” leader and i did catch and lost a monster due to a burr on the flasher eye (no swivel that time). Now i use 5 feet.

Do you recommend 30lbs test for spoons and teaser heads? And is naked spoon a good idea as well?

I'm using 30lb test for teaser heads but max 48" leader length in summer. The bait turns well and I confess I'm also using the teaser head wires to control the roll and they work awesome.

As for swivels other than for hot spot flashers I chop all the stock stuff off and use my own. You dont need too many either seems some have tons of swivels I just go from a coastlock to swivel on the top of the flasher and swivel to bead chain to bait and I'm done.

I don't fish spoons much so I'd rather not lead you astray. The above works for me but honestly the hoochies have been on fire so I'm happy to keep working that for the time being. Cheers