Downrigger boom length - 30 or 60"?

LC – Too funny. Thanks for the reply. That’s one heck of an electric system. I plan on adding a second battery as part of my upgrades this year. I was thinking I would run my fish finder, kicker (electric start with charger) and DR’s on one battery and the rest of the boat on the other battery. I have no electric problems on my boat the way it is now, but I would fell more comfortable with another battery. It’s an old boat but new to me. I enjoy working on it myself and I am also picky about how things are done.
I have not been on Wolf’s boat but I would guess his is top notch also. I know a lot of you guys make your living from your boats and you know a thing or two from years of experience. I have learned lots from the major contributors to this board. I am also willing to share what I have learned over the years. After all that’s why we are here.
GLG
 
Like LC my engines are on a battery all there own and like him buses and termanal blocks for electrical,LC is a comp. geek(sorry kelly) LOL and good with electrical.

I do mine the basic way that my friend who is a marine tech taught me and he was the one who worked on my boat so it is very safe.
Wire can and will cook even with a fuse on it seen it before.

Whats important is clean connections and good marine wire.

Enough said!!!!


Good luck Wolf
 
If you ever worry about blowing a fuse and not having a replacment, then you should put in a resetable breaker. They come in variable amp setting and automatically reset.If one of the breakers ever fail you can jump the two terminals together to get you by.
 
Way too technical, run the 10ga wire from your battery to your downrigger, with a fuse at your discretion.
They work fine , no major electrical fires from most guy's
i know.

:D
 
I'm wiring up my new boat and was looking at this thread and wondering how to wire my Scottyies. I have a perko switch already installed so should I wire my power through it or take power directly one of the two batteries? Perhaps it would be better to take both positive and negative right off a battery (like I did in my last boat)? I'm guessing I could still properly install a fuse if I took power off the perko switch.
 
I'm wiring up my new boat and was looking at this thread and wondering how to wire my Scottyies. I have a perko switch already installed so should I wire my power through it or take power directly one of the two batteries? Perhaps it would be better to take both positive and negative right off a battery (like I did in my last boat)? I'm guessing I could still properly install a fuse if I took power off the perko switch.

add a small bus terminal directly to your battery, a small length (6") of the appropriate gauge, fuse, then wire to your new style plugs. tin all your connections and use marine heat shrink connectors.
 
I personally would wire that bus, after the Perko battery switch! J

The boats we are talking about here are designed to run everything off ONE battery, including downriggers. The second battery needs to separated and kept as a backup reserve, specifically for starting engines when the main battery runs down!

You have two different thought processes going on here about wiring directly to the battery and I have done both! Both can be considered correct, but I actuall prefer the way Kelly is discribing! J

We have Scott, who fishs out of Oak Harbour. He goes fishing for a day or so, returns plugs into a shore power source and recharges his battery(s) when needed. Nothing at all wrong with that! A downrigger wired directly to a “good” deep cycle battery not being charged will still provide ample reserve for up to about three days, depending on draw! In the case shore power is available, You can wire the downriggers to the battery that the engines are charging. Who cares - Just plug the batteries into a charger and forget about it! That's fine, UNLESS, you plan on going to a spot where you don’t have shore power!

That is where Kelly’s thought process comes to play, which btw is similar to how I am wired. I also have three batteries, my wiring a little different as I run twins; however, end result is the same. I have two batteries (in a bank) being charged by my starboard engine. I use that bank to run everything. The third battery charged by my port engine, which is also my reserve battery for starting runs nothing. You don’t even want to ask how many times on WCVI, I have had to use that reserve battery to start my engines. Then guess what, after the start… everything goes back being ran off my starboard bank, keeping that port battery in reserve. BTW… those are group 27 batteries, but most boats on here can use group 24 without any problems..

Here is the difference. Kelly docks at Port Renfrew for weeks and/or months at a time – there is NO SHORE POWER on the docks available. The only way to get those batteries charged,other than the boats engine is to pull the batteries and take them to the office, which if needed you can do!

While running electronics and downriggers, the“kicker’s” charging system cannot and will NOT put adequate charge to one battery, let alone two! A kicker will only slow the discharge rate – at best! If you run that switch in “both” (or “all”) the batteries will equalize and you will eventually end up with TWO discharged batteries, to the point neither will start your engine. If you wire those downriggers to one battery, and run everything else off the other the battery you are draining both batteries. You need to ask yourself - How and when are those batteries being charged and by what?

Most kickers provide 6 amps charge going directly into one battery. That may or may NOT be enough amps to even keep onr battery charged depending on what is running and the draw. A kicker can NOT provide enough amps to keep one battery charged, let alone two, now add everything else running with those downriggers. End result – I hope you have a “pull start,” “battery booster,” "spare battery,” or good tow; as eventually, about the end of the third day, without shore power, you will be needing something to start those engines or get towed in!

My downriggers and everything else, as Kelly’s is wired to a bus, after my Perko switches. I have two Perko switches one for each engine. Each switch can power everything off the individual batteries. All batteries can be charged by one or both of the selected engines. In my case the main I have selected, which each main engine charges one (or bank) of the selected. My battery selector switches never see “both”– ever! The batteries are separated and they stay that way! I don’t care if you have two or three batteries. If you are fishing any area without shore power - One battery needs isolated and separated from everything else, and used as that backup starting battery!
 
good points charlie,, redundancy being the key,,, big alt on the kicker and a pull starter just in case
 
Okay, I could run a bus off one of the batteries or I could run a bus off the Perko. This is hard on my head. On my old boat I had one battery and ran everything off it with no problems. I did have a kicker with a charge kit, and I fished a week at a time without issue without needing any sort of outside recharging of the one and only battery. Never needed a tow either.

Now, I'm not certain of exactly how my Perko is wired, but I did some checking. It seems that my switch is setup to run off of either battery one at a time, or to run off both at the same time. Having said that, I'm guessing that's the whole idea. I've never had a Perko switch and I did not wire the one in my boat.

So you guys gave me an idea about a bus. My boat used to have a bait tank, and it's big ******* power wire is still coming off the Perko with power in both the "1" and "2" and "all" positions on the Perko. I assume now that's the way it's supposed to work, right? Now, I could easily use that big ******* wire off the Perko to run a bus of some sort, and from that bus I could run separate power to each downrigger. I'm thinking that wiring like this off the Perko would allow me to shut down power to my downriggers along with everything else on the boat whenever I swith the Perko to "Off." To me this sounds like a good way of doing things. There's room beside the Perko for a bus, and there's already a power wire coming off the Perko.

One other thing. I'm installing a kicker that has a charge kit. Which battery do I hook it to? Both batteries appear to be deep cycle. Moreover, in what position should I run the Perko? I have never had more than one battery so I've never had to think about some of this stuff before. For example, if I hook the kicker to battery "1" on the Perko, what position on the Perko do I use while trolling, while running the main engine, and while starting the boat? Or do I run the kicker to boat batteries, negative on one battery and positive on the other. I'm getting confused just thinking about it.
 
Okay, I could run a bus off one of the batteries or I could run a bus off the Perko. This is hard on my head. On my old boat I had one battery and ran everything off it with no problems. I did have a kicker with a charge kit, and I fished a week at a time without issue without needing any sort of outside recharging of the one and only battery. Never needed a tow either.
I would recommend running the bus (or even a breaker box) off the Perko! If you run it directly from the battery - than THAT battery should be the battery selected on the Perko switch and the one used while running, so your engine charging system will recharge that battery. One battery running everthing on the boat actually does equate to NO problems. The problems start when there is two batteries and a switch not used properly! :)

Now, I'm not certain of exactly how my Perko is wired, but I did some checking. It seems that my switch is setup to run off of either battery one at a time, or to run off both at the same time. Having said that, I'm guessing that's the whole idea. I've never had a Perko switch and I did not wire the one in my boat.
Yep! BTW... that "both" was designed to paralle the batteries "only" when either battery doesn't have enough amps to start the engine. If you have that switch in the "both" the batteries will equalize, and you are also splitting the incoming charging amps bewteen the two batteries. Worst case... if one battery goes bad, it will drain the good one. Best case, it will take twice as long to recharge the two batteries. It is best to leave that switch in either #1 or #2!

So you guys gave me an idea about a bus. My boat used to have a bait tank, and it's big ******* power wire is still coming off the Perko with power in both the "1" and "2" and "all" positions on the Perko. I assume now that's the way it's supposed to work, right? Now, I could easily use that big ******* wire off the Perko to run a bus of some sort, and from that bus I could run separate power to each downrigger. I'm thinking that wiring like this off the Perko would allow me to shut down power to my downriggers along with everything else on the boat whenever I swith the Perko to "Off." To me this sounds like a good way of doing things. There's room beside the Perko for a bus, and there's already a power wire coming off the Perko.
Yep, again! :)

One other thing. I'm installing a kicker that has a charge kit. Which battery do I hook it to? Both batteries appear to be deep cycle. Moreover, in what position should I run the Perko? I have never had more than one battery so I've never had to think about some of this stuff before. For example, if I hook the kicker to battery "1" on the Perko, what position on the Perko do I use while trolling, while running the main engine, and while starting the boat? Or do I run the kicker to boat batteries, negative on one battery and positive on the other. I'm getting confused just thinking about it.
The reason (and only reason) most SMALL boats have two batteries is for the backup - if one battery is discharged and/or goes bad! That is including my 30 footer! The two battery bank on my starboard side, only gives me extended reserve amps, when the engine is not running (e.g. anchored at night, with anchor light on, watching TV, and running the refridgerator! :)

It is a good ideal to alternate the use of the batteries to maintain a full charge on both batteries. That's it! :)

I personally would wire the kicker to run off the selected battery on your Perko switch. That way you will have the charge from the kicker going to the battery selected on the switch. Most kickers only put out 6 amps at max RPM, so there really shouldn't be an over-charging problem, like there would be running two mains to one battery.

Take a look at the following links. In the first link (from Perko) see diagram #1. That should be how yours is wired. The second link might explain it a little better? J

http://www.perko.com/images/catalog/pdf/Fig%208501-8504%20Inst%20(8500INS1).pdf
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/dualBattery.html
 
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I personally would wire the kicker to run off the selected battery on your Perko switch. That way you will have the charge from the kicker going to the battery selected on the switch. Most kickers only put out 6 amps at max RPM, so there really shouldn't be an over-charging problem, like there would be running two mains to one battery.

I don't know what you mean here. The kicker has a positive and negative wire. Where do they go?

It would appear from the second link that if I charge both motors to same battery at the same time it will wreck one of the charging system's stator. Now I'm more concerned than ever.
 
In the "Single Engine/Dual Battery" you will see the positive (red) leads from the batteries going to battery #1 and #2. At the bottom of the switch the "C" (red) goes to the engine starter and your buss bar. Just hook the positive (red) lead from the kicker to the bottom of the battery switch which is the common (red)! The kicker ground (black) just needs to be tied into your boats electrical negitive (black) system. That can be done either on the main engine (black lead) or since your batteries negitive are all ready tied together either of the batteries. And you are - Done. Select #1 and the kicker will start from and charge #1 battery. Select #2 same- same.

As far as the stators! Remember that will only be an issue if you run both engines at the same time. Simple resolve there, which is what I would do - don't run both engines at the same time! No more issue for something that "might" happen! :)

It is possible and the term there should be COULD! It is NOT certainly will! Both of engines (depending on age) should have built in isolators that should prevent that from happening; however, IT IS still possible. If that does occur, it will probably be the "kicker" stator? If the kicker stator blows your main stator, the main had a problem anyway

If you want to run both engines at the same time or are worried about that, there are ways shown in that second link to prevent that. You just have to completely isolate the two different systems Scroll down and read the "Boston Whaler Factory Installation," and "Alternate Dual Battery Configuration," which both will require additional switches. Or you might want to re-read the "New" Dual Battery Configuration?" You can do that with the switch you have. With that you need to remember you are creating more switches that you have to remember to switch back and forth. Experience tells me that is more for "ME" to forget! :D

Here is another link that discusses that issue!
http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/78969-two-outboards-charging-one-battery.html
 
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Excellent. I get it. I sort of figured you must have been talking about wiring the kicker to the switch. And on the way to work in dawned on me that I could always avoid two motors charging the same battery if I didn't run the kicker and main motor at the same time. I really got big lesson out this one. Thanks! I will also need to remember to alternate use of batteries 1 and 2 so as to keep both charged up.
 
I see that some guys run their riggers without fuses but I'm inclined to have protection. I think I'll run breakers, and I would need two, one for each downrigger, right? I could run those right beside the Perko instead of a bus, and I'm good to go!
 
Yep, but I would still install a buss. It just makes it cleaner and easier if you want to add something else.

There are two different types of Automatic Reset Circuit Breakers. One is a continues cycling and automatically resets and the other is a modified reset thermal non-cycling circuit breaker. Loot for the first, the later requires the power source to be removed from the breaker before the breaker resets and the later can be a pain when you are close to the rocks and pop a breaker and can't reset until the power source is removed (e.g. battery switch turned off). The other thing is they make both metel and plastic casings. If you happen to get a metel casing just cover it with "liquiid electrical tape," or have spares... it will corrode.

I have used all the above. I now have my downriggers wired through the "house main circuit breaker box." I installed two 30 amp "push button" circuit breakers, just for the simple reason I don't want to worry about "any" automatic breaker reset.

BTW... Marine cirecuit breakers have came down a lot in price over the years, but you can still buy the same thing at any auto store for about half the price! You can actually usually pick them up somewhere between $5-10. Very cheap protection! :)
 
I could mount a breaker right under each downrigger plug and it would be easier to access, but that's not close to power source as has been recommended here and by Scotty?
 
Installing a breaker next to the downrigger, kind of defeats the purpose of the breaker? :)

If you wire your kicker to the Perko, that should give you three wires on the bottom of the switch. One wire to the main engine, one wire to the kicker engine, and one wire going to your main (howse) or... whatever/however the rest of the boat gets its DC power to run the rest of the DC equipment. If there are more wires - don't mess with them, unless you know what they are powering! It probably already goes to distribution panel and/or busbar of some type. If it already has one of those, just install the ciruit breakers coming off the busbar to the positive leads going to the downriggers right where the leads come out of that panel/busbar. You're done!

I don't know the system on the boat! If it doesn't have a distribution panel or busbar, spend the small $$$ and get a busbar. Where the red ("C") come from the bottom pole of the Perko swicth disconnect that from the Perko, or if you have enough free wire just cut it. Install the busbar and connect the busbar you just install, to that bottom pole on the Perko. Attach that lead wire you removed from the Perko to the busbar. Now the Perko bottom pole should still have three leads. One to the main, one to the kicker, and one to the busbar. End result you still have three leads coming out of the bottom of the Perko battery switch, one going to the busbar. When you get done, the busbar should also have three leads coming from it. One will be the lead you removed and re-attached from the Perko for DC power to the rest of your boat. One new lead wire comming out (with new circuit breaker) for one downrigger, and one new lead coming out (with new cirecuit breaker) for the other downrigger. Again - you are done! :)

If you want, you can spend more money, and install a distrbution panel - but you probably don't need.
 
I could mount a breaker right under each downrigger plug and it would be easier to access, but that's not close to power source as has been recommended here and by Scotty?

While it is not at the battery it is still close enough. The reason they recommend it close to the battery is for voltage drop. The way to overcome any voltage drop issues is to use adequate wire size. I have used #10awg. Realisticaly the downriggers are not that far from the batteries. I have wired my riggers directly to the batteries with a dedicated 20A auto resetting circuit breaker. This works for me as there are enough wires coming off the Perko switch as it is. The only downfall to this setup is that as long as the riggers are plugged in there is power draw. Not sure how much, probably not enough to worry about but I will have to check one day.
 
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Okay, I can rig a bus using the big ******* wire coming off the Perko that used to go the live well, then from the bus to two breakers and then from the breakers to each downriggers. No problem... unless you're suggesting that I add the bus to the power before it reaches the Perko? No, that wouldn't make sense because you couldn't turn the power off with the Perko. Adding a bus would give me future power hookups. I don't recall seeing any bus under the dog house. There's a breaker for the windless. All the fuses are at the helm. Time to look at buses and breakers, and that stuff will need to go near the Perko (not at the downrigger plug) for best functionality. My brain stopped hurting.
 
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"unless you're suggesting that I add the bus to the power before it reaches the Perko?" NO, I am not!
"Adding a bus would give me future power hookups." Yes, it will!
"I don't recall seeing any bus under the dog house." That tells me, you have an I/O! :)
"There's a breaker for the windless." Yep, you bet there is!
"All the fuses are at the helm. Time to look at buses and breakers, and that stuff will need to go near the Perko (not at the downrigger plug) for best functionality." Yep, I think you got it! :)

BTW... a circuit breaker does two things. It protects the individual piece of equipment and THE WIRE! :)
 
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