Don Cherry Fired

It's interesting that for some people, it's not enough that Don Cherry not be allowed to express his opinion, but that we shouldn't even be allowed to express our opinions about his opinion.

It can't be a matter of those people simply wanting to avoid exposure to his beliefs...they could easily do that simply by avoiding the discussion. In this case the title is pretty self-explanatory; anyone who doesn't want to engage on the topic can simply refrain from clicking on the subject.

So it's actually an expression of the desire to control other people's ability to talk about what happened.

Personally I think this is exactly the discussion Canada needs to have...exactly who are we and what is the society we want to live in? Don Cherry is not just Don Cherry here, he is an avatar for a much larger issue that I think a lot of Canadians feel strongly about and should be allowed to discuss. That discussion shouldn't be shut down simply because some people think that not every opinion is valid.

So whether the admin wants the discussion here, specifically, is of course up to them because this is a privately owned board and I don't think that members here should expect anything, specifically. But here or elsewhere this discussion needs to happen. Canadians need to be engaged in defining their own society, and whether they want it to be a polyglot that welcomes immigrants from all over the world, like the USA, or a xenophobic cultural hegemony like Japan, or anywhere in between, that's something I think Canadians need to decide. We can't just let whoever claims the moral high ground dictate terms, we all need to participate in the development of this nation.
 
cracked_ribs said:
It's interesting that for some people, it's not enough that Don Cherry not be allowed to express his opinion, but that we shouldn't even be allowed to express our opinions about his opinion.

It can't be a matter of those people simply wanting to avoid exposure to his beliefs...they could easily do that simply by avoiding the discussion. In this case the title is pretty self-explanatory; anyone who doesn't want to engage on the topic can simply refrain from clicking on the subject.

So it's actually an expression of the desire to control other people's ability to talk about what happened.

Personally I think this is exactly the discussion Canada needs to have...exactly who are we and what is the society we want to live in? Don Cherry is not just Don Cherry here, he is an avatar for a much larger issue that I think a lot of Canadians feel strongly about and should be allowed to discuss. That discussion shouldn't be shut down simply because some people think that not every opinion is valid.

So whether the admin wants the discussion here, specifically, is of course up to them because this is a privately owned board and I don't think that members here should expect anything, specifically. But here or elsewhere this discussion needs to happen. Canadians need to be engaged in defining their own society, and whether they want it to be a polyglot that welcomes immigrants from all over the world, like the USA, or a xenophobic cultural hegemony like Japan, or anywhere in between, that's something I think Canadians need to decide. We can't just let whoever claims the moral high ground dictate terms, we all need to participate in the development of this nation.
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Except ***** troll lefty city folk like me.
 
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Rain City said:
Except ***** troll lefty city folk like me.
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I can't speak for anyone else but obviously I would argue that everyone should have the right to express their opinion, including the alt-right, the control-left, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, communists...everybody.

What I can't support is the idea that people who think the "wrong" thoughts shouldn't be allowed to talk, because I don't think anyone can be trusted to determine what the "wrong" thoughts are. Not that you are advocating this, I am just saying in general, I oppose any and all controls on free speech unless it can be shown that the speech is false and causes direct and demonstrable harm to someone. If it's true, it should be allowable; if it can't be shown to directly hurt specific individuals, it should be allowable.

I'm speaking in general about the national debate here, not arguing that SFBC should allow all discussions on all topics - as a private site I think the owners have the right to allow or disallow whatever they like. This is why I think Rogers has the right to fire Cherry, but to me the question is not the firing, it's "how did we get to a point in society where thousands of people demand the firing of a guy who expressed an opinion?"

THAT is what has become totally toxic, as far as I'm concerned. Rogers can do whatever they like, but the west in general needs to give some real thought to why we're letting some ideologies attempt to monopolize the right to legitimate discussion. Ideas need to be expressed, challenged, tested, and tried. People should feel free to question dogmas of every sort, from "Canada should preserve its national identity" to "Canada is a multicultural society". Refusing to allow people in a society to define what it is seems totally sick to me and it suggests that some group has excessive control on the society at large; not only should the discussions happen, they should be impossible to prevent from happening.

So personally I am glad that this whole thing went down, because if there's one thing I think Canada needs, it's a few big sparks to get us talking about where this country ought to be headed. If one of those sparks was Don Cherry, well, from my perspective, that is about as Canadian as it gets.
 
cracked_ribs said:
I can't speak for anyone else but obviously I would argue that everyone should have the right to express their opinion, including the alt-right, the control-left, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, communists...everybody.

What I can't support is the idea that people who think the "wrong" thoughts shouldn't be allowed to talk, because I don't think anyone can be trusted to determine what the "wrong" thoughts are. Not that you are advocating this, I am just saying in general, I oppose any and all controls on free speech unless it can be shown that the speech is false and causes direct and demonstrable harm to someone. If it's true, it should be allowable; if it can't be shown to directly hurt specific individuals, it should be allowable.

I'm speaking in general about the national debate here, not arguing that SFBC should allow all discussions on all topics - as a private site I think the owners have the right to allow or disallow whatever they like. This is why I think Rogers has the right to fire Cherry, but to me the question is not the firing, it's "how did we get to a point in society where thousands of people demand the firing of a guy who expressed an opinion?"

THAT is what has become totally toxic, as far as I'm concerned. Rogers can do whatever they like, but the west in general needs to give some real thought to why we're letting some ideologies attempt to monopolize the right to legitimate discussion. Ideas need to be expressed, challenged, tested, and tried. People should feel free to question dogmas of every sort, from "Canada should preserve its national identity" to "Canada is a multicultural society". Refusing to allow people in a society to define what it is seems totally sick to me and it suggests that some group has excessive control on the society at large; not only should the discussions happen, they should be impossible to prevent from happening.

So personally I am glad that this whole thing went down, because if there's one thing I think Canada needs, it's a few big sparks to get us talking about where this country ought to be headed. If one of those sparks was Don Cherry, well, from my perspective, that is about as Canadian as it gets.
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Thank you for your thoughtful addition to the debate. I agree with you except for one thing. I truly do believe that shouting and pointing your finger into a camera with an angry face and saying "you people" to ALL immigrants (presuming they're not buying poppies) is unequivocally wrong. It is a gross generalization and does nothing positive to our world, it only incites hate. He could have said the exact same thing in so much more of an appropriate way. He could have even said "I don't feel all immigrants are the same but in my experience many of the ones I see downtown Toronto aren't buying poppies. I think it's time we have a discussion about what we should be teaching and instilling into new canadians." Boom. Same issue brought forward in a less hateful way. Completely appropriate and not fireable. Yes it's a subtle difference but it's a fine line between discussion and accusation.
 
Y'all take this too serious. Everyone needs to lighten up, on both sides.

Kick back and enjoy:
 
Rain City said:
Thank you for your thoughtful addition to the debate. I agree with you except for one thing. I truly do believe that shouting and pointing your finger into a camera with an angry face and saying "you people" to ALL immigrants (presuming they're not buying poppies) is unequivocally wrong. It is a gross generalization and does nothing positive to our world, it only incites hate. He could have said the exact same thing in so much more of an appropriate way. He could have even said "I don't feel all immigrants are the same but in my experience many of the ones I see downtown Toronto aren't buying poppies. I think it's time we have a discussion about what we should be teaching and instilling into new canadians." Boom. Same issue brought forward in a less hateful way. Completely appropriate and not fireable. Yes it's a subtle difference but it's a fine line between discussion and accusation.
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You are right. But as I said before, Cherry should have always stuck to hockey and not strayed into anything else. His opinion on anything else is no more worthy of attention than the opinion of anyone else. Who cares what he or any other entertainer or athlete has to say about these issues? He's no authority on anything else beyond hockey, where he has spent essentially all his life, and many don't even appreciate his views on hockey. I didn't like his hockey views, and when he decided to venture into other areas, his views were not just worthless, but sometimes offensive. That's why I've watched him on very few occasions. But, reflecting the diversity of opinion in Canada, many think he's great. Had he stuck to hockey, he'd still have his job.
 
Did firing him create unity and togetherness? or did it just entrench people more into their beliefs causing more divisiness?

Is the Canada a better place having him fired? did it move the needle forward or backwards?
 
Saxe Point said:
You are right. But as I said before, Cherry should have always stuck to hockey and not strayed into anything else. His opinion on anything else is no more worthy of attention than the opinion of anyone else. Who cares what he or any other entertainer or athlete has to say about these issues? He's no authority on anything else beyond hockey, where he has spent essentially all his life, and many don't even appreciate his views on hockey. I didn't like his hockey views, and when he decided to venture into other areas, his views were not just worthless, but sometimes offensive. That's why I've watched him on very few occasions. But, reflecting the diversity of opinion in Canada, many think he's great. Had he stuck to hockey, he'd still have his job.
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It looks like others share my opinions on Cherry: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spo...cherry-character-became-caricature-years-ago/
 
ChinookExerciser said:
Did firing him create unity and togetherness? or did it just entrench people more into their beliefs causing more divisiness?

Is the Canada a better place having him fired? did it move the needle forward or backwards?
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Yes it is. It sparked the debate.
 
ChinookExerciser said:
I sure hope they don't replace don with another old white dude.
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Careful there ChinookExerciser. Old white dudes might fall into your minority category. LOL

ChinookExerciser said:
If Rogers practices what they preach it should be a women that represents one of the minority groups.
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The best person to fill the job should be the "best qualified person" as in male /female, black, white, green, yellow etc etc and not be limited to someone from a minority group.
 
Humboldt Broncos family blacklists CTV over Jess Allen ‘white boy’ comments

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/h...lists-ctv-over-jess-allen-white-boy-comments/

“Unless CTV does the right thing. The Straz Clan is done with interviews with CTV. If Don Cherry gets fired for saying You People and not calling out race and this tard Called a Race out and still working. We done with CTV,”

okay maybe i do have faith in canadians. The amount of women commenting on her twitter is funny.

https://twitter.com/jessieraeallen/...lists-ctv-over-jess-allen-white-boy-comments/
 
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ChinookExerciser said:
I sure hope they don't replace don with another old white dude. If Rogers practices what they preach it should be a women that represents one of the minority groups.

Somehow looking at the company's board i don't think that will happen. Perhaps it's easier just to Fire Don then to make real changes at the executive level.

https://about.rogers.com/who-we-are/our-people-strategy/


https://investors.rogers.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors/
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This mentality is scary. The best people should always be hired . This whole hiring based on race, gender etc just to make it look like you have a multicultural company is a total joke. This crap is happening in the trades right now and it’s going to get good people killed at work.
 
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