Does a good fisherman loose fish too

[2muchdraft]

This question is for those fishermen that cosistently catch fish. Guides especially. If you are the guy that all your friends talk about as the one that catches the most, then this question is for you.

Do you loose many fish after you have one on the line? Discount seals taking them, discount spooling or fish going under something. I'm talking about bringing the fish within 20ft of the boat and the fish spits the hook at you and walks off. I don't consider line breaks in there because I re-tie my gear every time out. I don't trust that there could be a nick in the line or ?

I hear so many guys say "had 6 on, netted only 2". Is this poor technique or? I've had my dad coach me quite a bit and I used to loose about 30% of the fish I had on the line. Now I can't think back to when I last lost a fish. Am I just lucky so far?

Do good fishermen loose many fish too?

Serious replys please (and please be honest)

 

[blueorca]

I'll answer this, but I don't consider myself to be a good fisherman, just fortunate and lucky sometimes.
Sockeye are habitual nibblers, until you adjust your gear.
Sometimes cutting the hootchies till the hook is just a wee bit longer than the frawns works, as does shortening the leaders a tad and tweeking the siwash hooks by bending them off center.
Same goes for Chum.
Chinook on the other hand need very sharp hooks and even with that you'll still loose some in the fight due to the hook wearing a bigger hole.
Coho....always tough to keep tension on a fish in mid air, but longer rods with a faster tip helps as does taking up the slack by lifting the rod quite high upon launch time.
All I can say honestly, is that with practice and trying different things you should be able land more to the boat.
Last week, we lost the first 5 Sockeye before we could even grab the rods. Trimmed the hootchies and landed the next 11 without any problems.
One sure way to loose any fish is to point the rod at your fish.
"The BEND is your friend". Gary Cooper, 2005.

 

[2muchdraft]

Well this is sort of what I'm getting at. If you do things right, all the little tricks like the ones you mention - should you loose fish? All the problems that you stated, are ones that could be foreshadowed.
I've switched to the 10 1/2' rod and give my fish as much slack is nessasary, I use single barbless on my spoons and single trebles on my anhovies and I seem to land more fish than my counterparts that use trebles on their spoons and trebles with trailers on their anchovies.
Is it all technique?

 

[blueorca]

Firstly, I never use treble hooks. To each, his own. I just hate the mess it makes on fish you have to or should be releasing.
As for spoons, I think that everyone will loose some fish to these.
Even the most ardent and experienced will loose fish on whatever gear they're using.
Most importantly, though, is the fact that you are getting hits.
You're way ahead of the 80 percent whom can't seem to hook up to anything out there.
I truly believe that it's the journey and not the destination that should be enjoyed.
Hopefully others will put their 2 cents in on this thread......

 

[scottyboy]

101/2 foot rods for me is a must mooching medium rods i like lamiglass myself . sparp hooks , once hooked very seldom loose fish , "KEEP THAT ROD TIP UP". tight lines scottyboy

 

[dohboy]

i agree if you are getting hits you are off to the races, i have fished salmon since i can remember, but i am a avid stealhead fisher as well and i will tell you even the best stealhead fisherman is happy with hookup's, i know all the ways on the river to keep the fish from jumping ,,, etc,,,, and it dont change much on the ocean, hence the phrase tight lines, you watch rookies out there just reefing the fish in or giving it too much line, ouch, i have had in the last 3 days , 3 complete novices fishing and they have all landed fish over 20#, much to their enjoyment, but they have all listened to what i say too do, that is my 3 cents

 

[marula]

Lately i've been turning my black box way down when I have a fish on. It seems to calm them abit more at the side of the boat. I agree on sharp hooks, they gotta be sticky sharp.

 

[Tailspin]

After a two day Charter Friday and Saterday, Guests on my boat lost 6 or more really good Springs within 30 feet of the boat due to my reluctance to go to level wind reels! No matter how much coaching you do Yelling "Rod Tip Up" and "let em run" they still stick there thumbs into the Shimmano Gt 4000 handles and jam it up, followed by pointing the rod tip at them. Subsequently leading to a dumfounded look and the words "what happened"? "What did i do wrong"? Then there is the fish that run straight at the boat. As i yell Reel,Reel,Reel the funny look comes again followed by "i think its gone"
Maybe im a bad coach? But its' Painfull!

With a level wind reel with a 4.1 ratio, all you need to do is reel and the drag slips as needed, is equal line presure is applied allowing for a fast retrieve and no slack line resulting in more fish in the boat and less bruised knuckles for guests.

By luck and 50 # test leaders alone, i rarely loose a good fish unlesss it's to a seal or another boat in overcrowded conditions.I am no expert and suspect i never will consider myself to be, it's sportfishing and is meant to be fun!

I just don't know if i can do it? Go to level winds after 20+ years! I remember getting my knuckles whaled on by my ol' mans Alveys and the ol Peetz with steel line and 0 stretch. I learned smart the hard way and it only took once.

 

[2muchdraft]

Thanks guys, you are confirming my suspicions.

I too coached two of my friends recently that had never landed a Salmon before. One landed an 18, the other 30. Both I had to yell at "Get your hand off the reel and get that tip up!!!".

Loosing fish isn't a bad thing if you take heed at what you did wrong and don't do it again! I've learned the hard way!

I saw a guy a month ago run to his lightly bouncing rod, grab the thing, and reefed on it. I said to my friends "watch this guy, he's going to break his rod". Sure enough, he yanked it again and snap, right at the first eye and the rod hit him in the forehead. I later saw him hand lining it in to the boat and it was a small rock cod! Insult to injury!

 

[Mr. Dean]

As long as there's a bend in the rod, you're in control. Of all the fish lost on our boat, I'd say that 80% of them were doing acrobats, 15% charging the boat and the rest due to skipper goof's.

If we could keep em all, it would get boring.......Real fast.

quote:I truly believe that it's the journey and not the destination that should be enjoyed.

Very well said and agree'd with 162%!


EDIT:
As to an answer for your question. Yes, good fisherman DO lose their share as well. But as with anything, there IS a learning curve.

 

[Rob Warren]

Well, maybe its a sign I'm getting old.. I'm not to sure, but after 20 some odd years on single action reels I switched to Penn level winds. I don't think I would ever switch back now. I remember when one of my guests actually broke both the handles (and his knuckles)off my diawa single action amidst a killer gorby grip on the handles as the fish was in a full run. I was all to happy to pull the fish in by handline after that, but it wouldn't have been an issue with my Penns.

Everyone loses fish. That's why its called fishing and not just catching. Isn't it funny how the big ones always get away..lol. I know I have had 2 fish on that were both well over 50 pounds. The first one was a whale that breached 3 times I got to see him, at least that was something. The first run he took I had the rod off the downrigger I heard then saw the line making a zipping noise through the water coming up! He hit the surface and gave an aerial display that even any Coho would be hard pressed to better. The next thing you know the line is making that noise again as it was cutting through the water this time going down! In the middle of the run I handed the rod off to my guest. He took it and let the fish run well enough. The sound came again and I could see our monster was heading for the surface again. He hit the air and fell over on his side (inducing a huge A$$ spray of water) and immediately started running on the surface away from the boat. The sound again! He hit the surface for the third and final time fell over on his side and I could see the line tighten right up. I looked up in time to see my guest with these huge googly eyes holding on to the reel for all of his might trying to stop this fish in the middle of his jump!!!!! Well needless to say the fish landed I saw something glimmering in the sunlight as I saw the rod go completely limp and another huge splash. I figured out what it was just in time and yelled duck!!!!
I ducked down in the boat as I looked up and saw this silver and red spinning disk coming at us at approx. 100 mph. The flasher went whipping by just over our heads.... I asked the guest why in the heck did you do that.. he said it was just the sight of seeing a fish that big that he just froze up. Like buck fever when hunting I guess heh.

There is nothing better then experience when it comes to fighting fish. The more fish you lose the better you will get. You should be able to learn from your mistakes and try not to make them again. Sometimes though things just aren't meant to be the way I look at it is every fish I lose is one more for the river!

Ps. 20-30 feet from the boat.. hmm could this kinda be when the flasher hits the surface? If it is then I always am ready for that and give a few quick winds because the fish will always get a bit of slack when the flasher hits the surface [^]

 

[Tips Up]

Good fisherman lose LESS fish but still lose fish.

Tips

 

[Dogbreath]

It's true that a level wind is easier to play fish with but that doesn't stop newbies from pointing the rod @ the fish.
It's easier to hold up a shorter rod but not as much fun playing the Salmon.
I've got lots of rod/reel combos but use the 8.5" rod/Shimano Charter special levelwind when fishing alone.

 

[blueorca]

I, too, am reluctant to use coffee grinders (although the odd client still uses them - I have LH and RH 7000 Abu's) so I switched last year to ARMR-2's as my main rigs.
Solved alot of issues, and boated more than a few fish that should have been lost.
I've also switched all my flashers to the release style a couple years back so now it's just hook and fish being played and no slack when the
flasher breaks the surface.
"It's better to have fished and lost than to have not fished at all"

 

[dohboy]

hey blue how do you like those releasing flashers?

 

[tortuga]

Most fish are lost due to not enough tension on the hook. The tip I have for inexperienced guests is rod staight up, and look up at the tip of your rod not down at the water to see your fish. If they see the rod staighten out then it's time to reel.
If it's bent over, do nothing but look up and wait for the rod to straighten out a bit and then it's time to reel again. Tell them that they will have lot's of time to look at thier fish when it's in the boat.

 

[Rob Warren]

quote:Most fish are lost due to not enough tension on the hook.

This is true if the fish is hooked good to begin with, but if the fish is only lip hooked then too much tension could easily produce a clean escape for the fish. I always try to fight a fish lightly until I can see he is hooked well. I never have 0 tension but about 3-4 pnds is all you really need.
There used to be a fish fighting simulator that would travel around with the outdoor shows. I played that thing lots and the ideal pressure was about 4 pounds. I suppose you could set that on your drag.. Ie. put a 4 lb weight on your line and hold it off the ground then release your drag a bit just until the weight begins to fall.. that should be about 4 lbs or you could just leave it on the rod and get a feel of 4 pnds of pressure. I would assume everyone hear knew already to "keep the rod tips up" and to "let him run".
Keeping steady pressure on the fish is a must now with barbless hooks you might have been able to get away with a bit of slack before the barbless hook regulation, but now there is nothing to keep that hook in the fish other than steady pressure. A good way to lose a fish would be to vary the pressure you put on the fish. I never PUMP my lever winds when fighting a salmon, altough many people I see do. I just keep the rod up and let the rod take the impact. Fishing hali's is another matter.. If I didn't pump my rod out there with the drag cranked right up I would be fighting the same fish for the whole day..heh

quote:"had 6 on, netted only 2"

Who was doing the netting?..lol.

 

[steve41]

I agree with good fishermen will hook more fish therefore land more. I like the longer rod 10-10.5 ft and single barbless hooks have increased my hooking to landing ratio.[8D]