DFO Announces further SRKW Restrictions

[searun]

this is a high light from Joyce Murry article form 2019, Ive put the link at the bottom

“I was very committed to persuading the PM and the team that the project should not be approved. My concerns were the ones that the Federal Court of Appeal cited. I am concerned about the marine environment, our southern resident killer whale population and the opposition of Indigenous people. That is the solid opinion of the majority in my riding. So I was very actively meeting with the minister [Catherine McKenna] and the PM, and writing out my two-page analysis for caucus. I did that for the whole nine months it was under consideration.”

As you can read Joyce doesn't care about sport fishing or its economic benefits, she is a member of GreenPac ( political environmental group ), we are dealing with a person with her own religious convictions and any data will be used against the sports fishing industry and favor FN and SKW,

https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/03/06/Joyce-Murray-Toughing-It-Out/

Maybe i'm reading the quote incorrect, but seems it took 2 months to write 2 page analysis? Sounds like a very conservative decision maker.

 

[mac_davy]

Maybe i'm reading the quote incorrect, but seems it took 2 months to write 2 page analysis? Sounds like a very conservative decision maker.

It was her in regards to her opposition to the trans mountain pipeline. Joyce is a life long environmentalist, like many in Justin's cabinet, they are really green party members who hijacked the liberal party, and pushed the party farther left than the NDP. Joyce has a home on lasquiti Island, she off the grid, grows food, and lives her tranquil existence, and fights for animal rights, she as been very vocal about the SKW for years and as such he is opposed to any increase marine traffic, and as such she can use the DFO to remove more boats from the straight, she fought against any expansion of the pipe line for this reason, she states clearly that her biggest concerns were FN and the risk to the SKW as the pipe line would increase marine traffic. Regardless now we can understand why she disregards any SFI proposals, she's not interested, she has a very green agenda and isn't interested in compromises. The best way to move forward is one of litigation, ( not sure how this would be done, but the guides could argue she causing them income, IDK ), she is ignoring science in favor of her personal religion, don't expect the seals to be culled she pushed the marine mamal protection act when she worked for Gordon Campbell

 

[SpringVelocity]

Look at the Minister of Environment another example as well. Remember his arrest?



“Southern Resident killer whales sit at the top of their food chain. Actions geared toward reducing the contaminants entering their habitat and subsequently impacting their health will aid in the recovery and survival of this population. We will continue our research and monitoring programs designed with this whale population in mind and focus on strengthening actions on priority contaminants. And we will keep increasing awareness and understanding of marine conservation in Canada.”

The Honourable Steven Guilbeault
Minister of Environment and Climate Change and Minister responsible for Parks Canada

 

[ziggy]

How could it be way worse for Pender Island? Even a small shoreline corridor along the south side of North and South Pender could have provided somewhere for a handful of small local boats to go but obviously nobody was there to propose and fight for it and DFO certainly would not want to interfere with the look of their blanket closure of the whole area. We were written off by the whole process. So the deep sea boats keep plowing through the area and the rec boats from the U.S. will keep streaming into Bedwell Harbour to clear customs and then proceed up Pender Bluffs heading north through the whole summer, but that is OK because a handful of local rec fishers have be barred from the area. What a disgrace.
Typical human behavior. Not in my area, so who gives a rats butt. Everyone else enjoy whats left of your area. Your time will come.

DFO is picking us off one area at a time. I can guarantee the closures will continue to expand each year. I don’t think DFO does anything other than pay lip service to Public Fishery. The give up the odd scrap every now and again, but the end game is to close it all down.

 

[ziggy]

Maybe i'm reading the quote incorrect, but seems it took 2 months to write 2 page analysis? Sounds like a very conservative decision maker.

No, a very Liberal decision maker. Lol

 

[ziggy]

Not twisting your words...you suggest there is no science behind speed reduction as a mitigation tool ( i simply provided that ) - and further you state that there is limited evidence for ship strikes characterizing them as few and far between. I don't believe the UBC researchers would concur with that assessment. Any vessel poses a risk of collision, I'm not so sure a 20m vessel represents lower risk other than being more maneuverable to avoid if they happen to see a whale. In the absence of further research to determine which vessel types are actually colliding with whales, I would expect DFO will default to the precautionary principle to guide application of these measures on a SARA listed species.

Reference attached:

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-15.31/page-1.html

Interesting point you bring up regarding them being worried about the impact of small vessels ( no pun intended). Ironically they seem very reluctant to further restrict whale watching. Odd in that while fisherman tend to leave an area if whales are present, the whale watchers tend to congregate. Don’t see the precautionary principle applied consistently IMO.

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

Interesting point you bring up regarding them being worried about the impact of small vessels ( no pun intended). Ironically they seem very reluctant to further restrict whale watching. Odd in that while fisherman tend to leave an area if whales are present, the whale watchers tend to congregate. Don’t see the precautionary principle applied consistently IMO.

Similarly with large vessels, we carry on our business and avoid interacting with whales or other vessels for that matter. We don't care really....oh look there's a whale....carry on. Some have coined the term "whale Harrassment fleet when speaking of whale watchers. It's saddening to watch from afar, and unfortunately government listens to industry, it's where the dollars come from and they are more organized lobbyists because of that.

 

[mac_davy]

Look at the Minister of Environment another example as well. Remember his arrest?



“Southern Resident killer whales sit at the top of their food chain. Actions geared toward reducing the contaminants entering their habitat and subsequently impacting their health will aid in the recovery and survival of this population. We will continue our research and monitoring programs designed with this whale population in mind and focus on strengthening actions on priority contaminants. And we will keep increasing awareness and understanding of marine conservation in Canada.”

The Honourable Steven Guilbeault
Minister of Environment and Climate Change and Minister responsible for Parks CanadaView attachment 78937

We really need grown ups back in our elected office, this is the nonsense we are dealing with

"I think Steven Guilbeault understands at a personal level how important eating plant-based is, as 50% of the dishes at his wedding were vegan, 35% vegetarian, and the other 15% had meat or fish. This was back in 2016, so that was a pretty bold, forward-looking action! "

Like most vegans Guilbeault is part of this cult, that believes we should all eat a plant based diet, they produce stupid videos like this, but we must understand they wont negotiate in good faith, they want you to stop fishing, eating meat of any kind.

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

Yes quite familiar with ECHO, and not really connecting the dots as to your point re ECHO and these measures...ECHO has nothing to do with small vessels and modifying it to apply to small vessels (ie...AIS) is unlikely so sorry I'm not following. Similarly the Seasonal Vessel Slow Down strategy has nothing to do with ECHO - which DFO clearly stated.

What I recall is this strategy aims to address vessel strike risk. Noise obviously is the other. I think experienced and honest offshore mariners will acknowledge the challenges spotting whales in certain ocean conditions, and therefore the collision risks. Couple that with the UBC study, and I believe that says something about what DFO intends for this management measure. How realistic is that risk as it applies to small vessels that are more maneuverable than large commercial vessels ??? - I'm not aware of any research that breaks that down. Is this fair to apply for smaller vessels?? Again, not sure how DFO calculated the risks or even if they were in a position to scientifically define those with any degree of accuracy. Perhaps it was just a WAG (wild butt guess). Therefore, I'm inclined to anticipate DFO simply defaulted to waiving the "precautionary principle" to justify taking this action. At least that's how I sense it played out without having all the facts.

Not justifying the Department's thinking or actions, just trying to fill in the blanks as we don't have all those details around the business rationale for this. Guess we will have to dig deeper to get the business rationale. WAG vs Science?

To clarify. About 6 years ago when we engaged in the ECHO program the scientists were asked the questions. The same ship strike article was brought up etc.
Why only large vessels? Why not small vessels?
The large vessels were a/ producing the noise and b/ producing the strike risk. Memories are short, we were also told that SRKW only ate chinook.....
We were told the high speed vessels did not disturb the whales feeding patterns. the acoustics of a large slow turning engine does (100rpm range) we also recorded all that engine data for the first 2 years. Not sure what you think AIS has to do with ECHO but I was implying that we may have the capability to track whales and advertise the position on the AIS platform therefore making it a dynamic program with slowdowns when whales are in the area opposed to 24/7.
So now why? Why put in a slowdown to all vessels with no evidence of small planing hulls causing harm?
It's a WAG because if fisheries wanted data on this they may have asked us our professional opinion......they didn't. If you want, PM me. I'll explain my connection.
Hope that helps

 

[sir-vivor]

this is a high light from Joyce Murry article form 2019, Ive put the link at the bottom

“I was very committed to persuading the PM and the team that the project should not be approved. My concerns were the ones that the Federal Court of Appeal cited. I am concerned about the marine environment, our southern resident killer whale population and the opposition of Indigenous people. That is the solid opinion of the majority in my riding. So I was very actively meeting with the minister [Catherine McKenna] and the PM, and writing out my two-page analysis for caucus. I did that for the whole nine months it was under consideration.”

As you can read Joyce doesn't care about sport fishing or its economic benefits, she is a member of GreenPac ( political environmental group ), we are dealing with a person with her own religious convictions and any data will be used against the sports fishing industry and favor FN and SKW,

https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/03/06/Joyce-Murray-Toughing-It-Out/

Does this surprise you , it's been like this for over 5 years for sure ? But yet it continues . Why ?
Who's going to change it , it's like everyone is waiting for a saviour? Wake up folks , there wont be a single saviour I. its time and only u can help make a change. If you haven't sent anything in the way of correspondences to your MP or DFO , well keep swimming in the weeds because everyone that's everyone is needed in the deep end so please just send a damn email if you haven't and for those of you who have BRAVO!!!!!!!!! (Sorry, ok I'm done venting )

 

[mac_davy]

Does this surprise you , it's been like this for over 5 years for sure ? But yet it continues . Why ?
Who's going to change it , it's like everyone is waiting for a saviour? Wake up folks , there wont be a single saviour I. its time and only u can help make a change. If you haven't sent anything in the way of correspondences to your MP or DFO , well keep swimming in the weeds because everyone that's everyone is needed in the deep end so please just send a damn email if you haven't and for those of you who have BRAVO!!!!!!!!! (Sorry, ok I'm done venting )

I've paid my SFI membership and continue to correspond with bob Zimmerman. My point is we as group need to be fully aware, that the minister and her close associates as well as a number of DFO managers, are radical environmental activists, they are not interested in conservation or resource management, they have world views they believe we should all be living, and its net zero carbon, a plant based diets, the straight of Georgia should be as close to a marine park as possible.

“Southern Resident killer whales have called the Pacific coast home for thousands of years, and we want to see their population grow, flourish, and return to their former abundance. Our government has been taking significant actions to protect these majestic creatures and we will enhance our protection measures to help limit the impacts of human activity in their habitats. We’ll continue this important work in partnership with industry, Indigenous groups, the science community, and others."

The Honourable Joyce Murray
Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard

I've high lighted that quote for you, " we want to see their population grow, flourish, and return to their former abundance ", this is a blanket statement, there are no goals to be met, she simply has placed an indefinite time line and an unknown number for their population. Since they have been monitored the population has moved from 66 to 90, and sits at 74 now, so what is flourish?, is it 90? 100? 200? what is her end goal? what is it they want to achieve ? they never say nor will they but we have a hint in the next statement "we will enhance our protection measures to help limit the impacts of human activity in their habitats ". the key words are " we will enhance " and " Limit human activity ", she will continue to block sports fishing until the SKW have their private aquarium and there is a minimum of marine traffic. So lets not ask again why they don't follow the scientific data, they sooner we all realize the ENGOs and Ministry are at war with the sports fishing community the better we can formulate a strategy.

 

[sir-vivor]

mac_davy,
Point Taken ...Thanks !
I never knew that , thanks for highlighting it and all I am saying WE ALL need to get involved not just a few like you and others , its ALL OUR resource, so we all got to work to get it .

 

[mac_davy]

mac_davy,
Point Taken ...Thanks !
I never knew that , thanks for highlighting it and all I am saying WE ALL need to get involved not just a few like you and others , its ALL OUR resource, so we all got to work to get it .

We elect our government to manage these resources on the behalf for the citizens of Canada , not on the urging of ENGOs and foreign money they bring, or the personal religions of some radicals. No matter what compromise the SFI has offered, the DFO and Ministry will then move the goal posts so they those proposals cant be met, I have no doubt the public is in favor of protecting the SKW, most of us are, however I doubt they would be in favor of the destruction of the public summer/spring fishery and 1.1 billion it brings to economy. Every time I bring it to the attention of a non angler they are shocked that its completely shut down, most will say " how did they get that through parliament " which shows you how ignorant most Canadian are to how government operates. We have an unaware public and a Government that takes full advantage of this.

 

[OldBlackDog]

We elect our government to manage these resources on our behalf of the citizens of Canada , not on the urging of ENGOs and foreign money they bring, or the personal religions of some radicals. No matter what compromise the SFI has offered, the DFO and Ministry will then move the goal posts so they those proposals cant be met, I have no doubt the public is in favor of protecting the SKW, most of us are, however I doubt they would be in favor of the destruction of the public summer/spring fishery and 1.1 billion it brings to economy. Every time I bring it to the attention of a non angler they are shocked that its completely shut down, most will say " how did they get that through parliament " which shows you how ignorant most Canadian are to how government operates. We have an unaware public and a Government that takes full advantage of this.

DFO and the government has learned that there is no major blowback from the public over doing what ever they want in regards to fish.

They listen to the Greens as the greens will make their life hell if they don’t, therefore way more power than a few sportys who cause no problems.

Eradication of fish has been going on for years, yet you just have to look at Chinook stocks that are almost extinct and the demise of Steelhead to see how much they really do not care and the lack of pressure by the public to fix these problems.

 

[mac_davy]

DFO and the government has learned that there is no major blowback from the public over doing what ever they want in regards to fish.

They listen to the Greens as the greens will make their life hell if they don’t, therefore way more power than a few sportys who cause no problems.

Eradication of fish has been going on for years, yet you just have to look at Chinook stocks that are almost extinct and the demise of Steelhead to see how much they really do not care and the lack of pressure by the public to fix these problems.

" They listen to the Greens as the greens will make their life hell if they don’t, therefore way more power than a few sportys who cause no problems. "

sad but true, however we have more power than realize, we are the back bone of the economy, most of us are working family men, we pay our taxes, and pay back into the economic growth of the province. Regardless i just want to make sure we are all informed that no science or reasonable compromise will work with them, Joyce Murry, Omar Alghabra, Steven Guilbeault and many in Justin's cabniet are on board with the 30 by 30, Canada also has a new conservation goal called 30 by 30, which aims to conserve at least 30 per cent of the nation’s lands and waters by 2030.

you can read about it here, they envision the straight as a marine park for ocean mammals,

How to meet the ambitious target of conserving 30 per cent of Earth by 2030 - Beyond

Canada's new conservation goal, 30 by 30, requires new and innovative action to protect natural environments and biodiversity

beyond.ubc.ca

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

Lack of risk analysis in slowdown?
Safety at sea is paramount. Has this slowdown initiative considered the effect on small vessels? Was small vessel safety considered?
I've got four major safety concerns notably for small vessels
1/ the vast distance between ports of refuge in an area where the weather and sea state are a concern.
2/ A vessel taking seas from astern is subject to surf riding and broaching. speeds less than 10 knots would exaggerate this effect causing a dangerous condition
3/ A small vessel is subject to being "pooped" or swamped when operating at a slow speed in a large swell.
4/I'm sure lots on here are familiar with Nitinat Bar? Would you consider staying off the throttle in this area?
All that being said who's going to listen if there's a SAR incident? DFO? Will they accept liabilty in court for causing such an incident due to their lack of Risk Assessment ?

 

[searun]

Lack of risk analysis in slowdown?
Safety at sea is paramount. Has this slowdown initiative considered the effect on small vessels? Was small vessel safety considered?
I've got four major safety concerns notably for small vessels
1/ the vast distance between ports of refuge in an area where the weather and sea state are a concern.
2/ A vessel taking seas from astern is subject to surf riding and broaching. speeds less than 10 knots would exaggerate this effect causing a dangerous condition
3/ A small vessel is subject to being "pooped" or swamped when operating at a slow speed in a large swell.
4/I'm sure lots on here are familiar with Nitinat Bar? Would you consider staying off the throttle in this area?
All that being said who's going to listen until there's a SAR incident?

Understand your concerns. The measures take those into account allowing exceptions for vessel safety as required. If sea conditions are really that bad, most vessel operators are not able to run at speeds much over 10kts and again, the measures account for exceptions. (vessels avoiding unforeseen hazards)

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

Understand your concerns. The measures take those into account allowing exceptions for vessel safety as required. If sea conditions are really that bad, most vessel operators are not able to run at speeds much over 10kts and again, the measures account for exceptions. (vessels avoiding unforeseen hazards)

With a career of commercial and pleasure experience in that area I can attest to going upswell at 5 knots and down swell at 20 knots. The swell typically runs at 25 knots or more which is the safe range to run at without surf riding and broaching when the vessel becomes directionally unstable in a planing hull. Where is the unforeseen hazard exemption listed? Or safety? Don't see it?
And when sea conditions are really that bad thats when power is most required to avoid being eaten up by the big swells. slowing down ...thats laughable.

 

[gone fishin]

With a career of commercial and pleasure experience in that area I can attest to going upswell at 5 knots and down swell at 20 knots. The swell typically runs at 25 knots or more which is the safe range to run at without surf riding and broaching when the vessel becomes directionally unstable in a planing hull. Where is the unforeseen hazard exemption listed? Or safety? Don't see it?
And when sea conditions are really that bad thats when power is most required to avoid being eaten up by the big swells. slowing down ...thats laughable.

" laughable" kinda sums up the speed regs in this area!
AND exactly what is it they expect to accomplish?

 

[wildmanyeah]

If it’s unsafe to go slow have your day in court

but it’s highly unlikely you would ever get a fine I’m guessing