H
HOOTEY
Guest
Now that the COWICHAN BAY PINKS are closed what is planned for the pink fishery now,are these Pinks supposed to head up the Kokisilah or Cowichan Rivers?[?][?][?]
W
WillyD
Guest
How was the fishery.
Anything back in that lifeless ditch is a good thing. That river supported runs in the tens of thousands, a couple thousand pinks are not going to hurt anything.
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nitnat_junkie
Active Member
Really they have gone up the river, wouldn't think they would have
Am not sure why pink salmon entering the lower river is perceived as some kind of problem? Simply put it is not. It isn't going to block any other salmon using the system. If that was the case consider Quinsam/Campbell River as dead ditch because they estimate a million pinks returned this year. Even if they try and spawn then die it is not a big deal. As Lipripper points out this brings much needed ocean nutrients into the system, a system that today has far less nutrients than in its long history.
This is a very low risk project but brings several benefits. If the DFO Wild Salmon Policy Transplant Committee put their signatures to the Cowichan pink salmon net pen program you can bet it is not any significant issue, as they are an ultra conservative bunch when it comes to moving fish around (from one system to another) as they should be.
Also these fish are native to the Pacific ocean. Yup, they are all around us. Some 20,000,000 swam right by the front door this past summer, ergo I can't see why some look at the pinks in Nanaimo, Cowichan (or even Sidney for that matter) as some kind of 'foreign' or scary alien plague. They are not! They live around here.
Additionally, in the '60s or '70s a DFO science study of young salmon habits (I think undertaken by S. Argue) showed that juvenile pink salmon can be found in the near shore waters during summer all around Georgia Strait (from Race Rocks to Port Hardy) suggesting they are here anyway whether we chose to believe it or not.
And important to understand is that the Cowichan River has had and still has a remnant run of wild pink salmon. It is not widely known. Also did you know that over 2000 pinks entered the Cowichan last year? That is before the net pen project could have provided pinks in the river.
If anyone bases their thought processes around 'foreign' for pinks, then those same folks must shout loudly to champion a massive brown trout eradication program for the Cowichan. Now they are an introduced, alien or 'foreign' species. Or what about bass in Cowichan, Shawnigan and Elk Lakes for that matter? I don't think the eradication of those 'foreigners' is going to start any time soon!
Just so we don't get confused, I am not from a science or biology background. I can only respond with what information I have read and heard from those in science that understand this issue. I do not have all the answers. There is no one who can stand up and say conclusively that there are no risk at all, but this is a very low risk program. The folks in science and fish management that I speak to about this don't understand why there is concern in the public. Remember Campbell River and Nanaimo pink programs are seen as a great plus and yes a benefit to the area and local community. Nanaimo is net penning 1,000,000 baby pinks each year as the WANT a run in that river to (re-)establish and this is where there are also Lower Georgia Strait chinook (which are in trouble like the Cowichan chinook).
Let's not get too stressed out there are bigger battles to fight.
Just my 2 cents
P.S. these aren't Atlantic salmon, net penning projects are not like the open ocean aquaculture industry and oh yes, the volunteers aren't from Norway [}
][8D]
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
This is a very low risk project but brings several benefits. If the DFO Wild Salmon Policy Transplant Committee put their signatures to the Cowichan pink salmon net pen program you can bet it is not any significant issue, as they are an ultra conservative bunch when it comes to moving fish around (from one system to another) as they should be.
Also these fish are native to the Pacific ocean. Yup, they are all around us. Some 20,000,000 swam right by the front door this past summer, ergo I can't see why some look at the pinks in Nanaimo, Cowichan (or even Sidney for that matter) as some kind of 'foreign' or scary alien plague. They are not! They live around here.
Additionally, in the '60s or '70s a DFO science study of young salmon habits (I think undertaken by S. Argue) showed that juvenile pink salmon can be found in the near shore waters during summer all around Georgia Strait (from Race Rocks to Port Hardy) suggesting they are here anyway whether we chose to believe it or not.
And important to understand is that the Cowichan River has had and still has a remnant run of wild pink salmon. It is not widely known. Also did you know that over 2000 pinks entered the Cowichan last year? That is before the net pen project could have provided pinks in the river.
If anyone bases their thought processes around 'foreign' for pinks, then those same folks must shout loudly to champion a massive brown trout eradication program for the Cowichan. Now they are an introduced, alien or 'foreign' species. Or what about bass in Cowichan, Shawnigan and Elk Lakes for that matter? I don't think the eradication of those 'foreigners' is going to start any time soon!
Just so we don't get confused, I am not from a science or biology background. I can only respond with what information I have read and heard from those in science that understand this issue. I do not have all the answers. There is no one who can stand up and say conclusively that there are no risk at all, but this is a very low risk program. The folks in science and fish management that I speak to about this don't understand why there is concern in the public. Remember Campbell River and Nanaimo pink programs are seen as a great plus and yes a benefit to the area and local community. Nanaimo is net penning 1,000,000 baby pinks each year as the WANT a run in that river to (re-)establish and this is where there are also Lower Georgia Strait chinook (which are in trouble like the Cowichan chinook).
Let's not get too stressed out there are bigger battles to fight.
Just my 2 cents
P.S. these aren't Atlantic salmon, net penning projects are not like the open ocean aquaculture industry and oh yes, the volunteers aren't from Norway [}
][8D]God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
highlights
Active Member
Ever seen a 20lb pink
Smiley66
IMHO even a well-known biologist that says its OK won't change your personal prejudice if you are dead set against the concept. People who's minds are made up rarely change sides on an issue. And that is absolutely fine by me, you (as are we all) are perfectly entitled to your personal opinion. And FWIW I am not going to make it a goal to try and change your mind.
Please, however, don't try and tell or imply to the good folks on this forum that pinks are being 'introduced' in the Cowichan. The truth is (as pointed out in my earlier post) ... they are already there. Historically well before this project was ever dreamt about.
To my knowledge all the DFO WSP Transplant Committee members are senior biologists. Since the advent of the Wild Salmon Policy the bar has been raised considerably on salmon transplantation. As a group they had to sign off on this transplant of pinks from Quinsam to Cowichan in fall 2007 before the project got approval or it never would have happened. The DFO Regional Director General (Pacific) Paul Sprout strongly supports this low risk program for the whole of Georgia Strait and yes he is a biologist by background.
Q: Are you also against Brown Trout being in the Cowichan? If not why not? They are truly 'introduced' and presently alive, reproducing and well in the Cowichan. Will you lobby to eradicate them?
There will be such a document as you request in the near future. When available for distribution it will be shared. 'nough said.
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
IMHO even a well-known biologist that says its OK won't change your personal prejudice if you are dead set against the concept. People who's minds are made up rarely change sides on an issue. And that is absolutely fine by me, you (as are we all) are perfectly entitled to your personal opinion. And FWIW I am not going to make it a goal to try and change your mind.
Please, however, don't try and tell or imply to the good folks on this forum that pinks are being 'introduced' in the Cowichan. The truth is (as pointed out in my earlier post) ... they are already there. Historically well before this project was ever dreamt about.
To my knowledge all the DFO WSP Transplant Committee members are senior biologists. Since the advent of the Wild Salmon Policy the bar has been raised considerably on salmon transplantation. As a group they had to sign off on this transplant of pinks from Quinsam to Cowichan in fall 2007 before the project got approval or it never would have happened. The DFO Regional Director General (Pacific) Paul Sprout strongly supports this low risk program for the whole of Georgia Strait and yes he is a biologist by background.
Q: Are you also against Brown Trout being in the Cowichan? If not why not? They are truly 'introduced' and presently alive, reproducing and well in the Cowichan. Will you lobby to eradicate them?
There will be such a document as you request in the near future. When available for distribution it will be shared. 'nough said.
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
H
HOOTEY
Guest
In my opinion any sport fishery introduced into a dead water that used to have any kind of sport fishery is a good thing who knows it could rejuninate an otherwise no productive waterway for recreational fishing for our kids..win win situation and isnt that what we really all want.....[^][^][^][^]
win win situation and isnt that what we really all want.....[^][^][^][^]
Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
personally I'd say the more nutrients into that river the better - plus it might give the natives something to harvest and take some of the pressure of the springs.
Hey Gov, you said that pinks are already present but can you tell me if the Cowichan had a natural run of pinks or were these pinks from another project?
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Hey Gov, you said that pinks are already present but can you tell me if the Cowichan had a natural run of pinks or were these pinks from another project?
http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!
P
Pablo2079
Guest
Size would be an advantage in that they could get into areas of the river that the Springs may not be able to. Also numbers....
The only concern I would have about this is that the unique genes of the Pinks that are native to the Cowichan will undoubtedly be lost.
The only concern I would have about this is that the unique genes of the Pinks that are native to the Cowichan will undoubtedly be lost.
Poppa Swiss and Banger17 - yes, there is a historic run of pinks that go into the Cowichan. This is little known and has been happening for way longer than any pink net pen programs in the southern Georgia Strait. I am told that only a few dozen show up every other year, but they are present none the less.
On 10/06/2009 Goose wrote 'Was at the counting fence yesterday on Cowichan. Over 2000 pinks have gone through!!' while I do not want to challenge Goose about his post, I will post this report that came to me yesterday from DFO stock assessment staffer Steve Baillie (and yes DFO are manning the fence in person on the Cowichan)
This update is for 7 October 2009. Details include an update of the fence enumeration and results from a swim count below the fence. Catalyst Pulp Mill was generous enough to give the salmon a pulse flow this past Sunday-Monday and this resulted in an increase in the number of Chinook and especially Coho passing through the fishway at the enumeration weir. The total enumeration as of this morning at 0800 is:
126 Chinook adults
129 Chinook jacks
363 Coho adults
272 Coho jacks
19 Chum
116 PK
Today, DFO and Cowichan Tribes Guardians conducted a swim enumeration using 4 swimmers and 1 vessel. The swim was done from the fence downstream to the Silver Bridge (Highway 19). Water clarity was between one and two meters. The estimated number of salmon within this section was:
280 Chinook adults
250 Chinook jacks
225 Coho adults
190 Coho jacks
3 live Pink
5 dead Pink 4 Chum
The Chinook and Coho seemed bright and may have entered the Cowichan River during the pulse flow. Here's hoping for lousy, wet weather next week!
This makes me wonder if Goose is sure about his post's accuracy?
Of interest the original agreement for the pen project in Cow Bay with the local FN was once the recreational fishery for Pink salmon closed in Cow Bay the Cowichan First Nations were welcome to conduct a pink salmon mop up fishery for food for the band. Another win win when no Fraser sockeye to be had! I know they have taken over a 1000 pinks from the bay.
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
On 10/06/2009 Goose wrote 'Was at the counting fence yesterday on Cowichan. Over 2000 pinks have gone through!!' while I do not want to challenge Goose about his post, I will post this report that came to me yesterday from DFO stock assessment staffer Steve Baillie (and yes DFO are manning the fence in person on the Cowichan)
This update is for 7 October 2009. Details include an update of the fence enumeration and results from a swim count below the fence. Catalyst Pulp Mill was generous enough to give the salmon a pulse flow this past Sunday-Monday and this resulted in an increase in the number of Chinook and especially Coho passing through the fishway at the enumeration weir. The total enumeration as of this morning at 0800 is:
126 Chinook adults
129 Chinook jacks
363 Coho adults
272 Coho jacks
19 Chum
116 PK
Today, DFO and Cowichan Tribes Guardians conducted a swim enumeration using 4 swimmers and 1 vessel. The swim was done from the fence downstream to the Silver Bridge (Highway 19). Water clarity was between one and two meters. The estimated number of salmon within this section was:
280 Chinook adults
250 Chinook jacks
225 Coho adults
190 Coho jacks
3 live Pink
5 dead Pink 4 Chum
The Chinook and Coho seemed bright and may have entered the Cowichan River during the pulse flow. Here's hoping for lousy, wet weather next week!
This makes me wonder if Goose is sure about his post's accuracy?
Of interest the original agreement for the pen project in Cow Bay with the local FN was once the recreational fishery for Pink salmon closed in Cow Bay the Cowichan First Nations were welcome to conduct a pink salmon mop up fishery for food for the band. Another win win when no Fraser sockeye to be had! I know they have taken over a 1000 pinks from the bay.
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
On 10/07/2009 Pablo2079 wrote 'The only concern I would have about this is that the unique genes of the Pinks that are native to the Cowichan will undoubtedly be lost.'
This concern has also been considered in detail by the Wild Salmon Policy (WSP) Transplant Committee before approving the Cow Bay project. My understanding is DFO following the guidance of the WSP, protect the genetic integrity with salmon Conservation Units. These are defined areas in which demes (unique groups) of specific salmon species are defined as genetically the same from one watershed to another. Example Fraser River pinks are not considered the same as pinks from Puget Sound or Port Hardy, that is because they are all from different WSP pink salmon Conservation Units.
The WSP map defines the Georgia Strait population of pink salmon as running from North of Campbell River across on the sunshine coast and out to Sooke area. And considers Georgia Strait Pinks salmon as 'biologically homogeneous'.
Ergo the waters of Cowichan Bay are in the same WSP even year and odd year Pink salmon Conservation Units as the Quinsam River. Therefore transplanting the pinks from Quinsam to Cow Bay is not considered a risk. Genetically those pinks are considered identical under the WSP.
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
This concern has also been considered in detail by the Wild Salmon Policy (WSP) Transplant Committee before approving the Cow Bay project. My understanding is DFO following the guidance of the WSP, protect the genetic integrity with salmon Conservation Units. These are defined areas in which demes (unique groups) of specific salmon species are defined as genetically the same from one watershed to another. Example Fraser River pinks are not considered the same as pinks from Puget Sound or Port Hardy, that is because they are all from different WSP pink salmon Conservation Units.
The WSP map defines the Georgia Strait population of pink salmon as running from North of Campbell River across on the sunshine coast and out to Sooke area. And considers Georgia Strait Pinks salmon as 'biologically homogeneous'.
Ergo the waters of Cowichan Bay are in the same WSP even year and odd year Pink salmon Conservation Units as the Quinsam River. Therefore transplanting the pinks from Quinsam to Cow Bay is not considered a risk. Genetically those pinks are considered identical under the WSP.
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
