Chinook fishery to close ???
- Thread starter scott craven
- Start date
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/stats/comm/summ-somm/index-eng.htm
I was curious so I went looking for the commercial Chinook catch numbers and what I found is disturbing and I am hoping I am actually wrong. Check out DFO’s statistics on the commercial catch of Chinook. I believe “salmon by district in pieces” refers to the numbers of Chinook commercially caught in each year.
The total numbers for the coast are:
2011 193188 (much higher than Fish4all’s number; our primary resident commercial spokesperson)
2010 165271
2009 127788
2008 144830
2007 194592
2006 281141
First we need to consider that Chinook and Coho are viewed by DFO as primarily prioritized as sport fisheries while Sockeye, Pinks and Chums are considered as primarily commercial fisheries. Something spokespersons for the commercial sector were quick to point out to us on this site to justify the commercial Sockeye feeding frenzy in Alberni inlet last year at the expense of sports fishermen.
Now it appears that in 2006 through 2009 the Chinook commercial catch dropped by about 50%; one assumes for conservation purposes and because of the fishery prioritization model. I am thinking that there may have been some squawking from the commercial side and thus, every year since DFO has allowed the commercial Chinook catch to go up substantially.
It occurs to me that they intercept much of the same Fraser Chinook that sport fishermen catch off Victoria and Sooke; they just do it in other locations. Am I the only one who finds it fascinating that as commercial Chinook catch numbers have gone up substantially over the last two years, sport fishermen appear to have been paying for it off Victoria and Sooke through major reductions such as slot restrictions? Now they want to come at us yet again. What happened to the principal of prioritizing Chinook as a sport fishery?
PS Bushbear - the commercial Chinook numbers are broken down by area on the DFO Website.
I was curious so I went looking for the commercial Chinook catch numbers and what I found is disturbing and I am hoping I am actually wrong. Check out DFO’s statistics on the commercial catch of Chinook. I believe “salmon by district in pieces” refers to the numbers of Chinook commercially caught in each year.
The total numbers for the coast are:
2011 193188 (much higher than Fish4all’s number; our primary resident commercial spokesperson)
2010 165271
2009 127788
2008 144830
2007 194592
2006 281141
First we need to consider that Chinook and Coho are viewed by DFO as primarily prioritized as sport fisheries while Sockeye, Pinks and Chums are considered as primarily commercial fisheries. Something spokespersons for the commercial sector were quick to point out to us on this site to justify the commercial Sockeye feeding frenzy in Alberni inlet last year at the expense of sports fishermen.
Now it appears that in 2006 through 2009 the Chinook commercial catch dropped by about 50%; one assumes for conservation purposes and because of the fishery prioritization model. I am thinking that there may have been some squawking from the commercial side and thus, every year since DFO has allowed the commercial Chinook catch to go up substantially.
It occurs to me that they intercept much of the same Fraser Chinook that sport fishermen catch off Victoria and Sooke; they just do it in other locations. Am I the only one who finds it fascinating that as commercial Chinook catch numbers have gone up substantially over the last two years, sport fishermen appear to have been paying for it off Victoria and Sooke through major reductions such as slot restrictions? Now they want to come at us yet again. What happened to the principal of prioritizing Chinook as a sport fishery?
PS Bushbear - the commercial Chinook numbers are broken down by area on the DFO Website.
Fishery Notice
Category(s): COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll
Subject: FN0175-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll - Area G - Chinook - March 15 Closure
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AREA G WCVI CHINOOK FISHERY
Effective 23:59 hours Thursday, March 15, 2012, the Area G Troll fishery will
close as scheduled in all Areas and Subareas on the west coast of Vancouver
Island. WCVI waters will remain closed until mid to late April to address
conservation concerns for Fraser River Spring chinook stocks of concern. A
Fishery Notice will be released the week of April 02 regarding future fishing
opportunities.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Alistair Thomson 250-618-7600
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0175
Sent March 9, 2012 at 1148
Category(s): COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll
Subject: FN0175-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll - Area G - Chinook - March 15 Closure
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AREA G WCVI CHINOOK FISHERY
Effective 23:59 hours Thursday, March 15, 2012, the Area G Troll fishery will
close as scheduled in all Areas and Subareas on the west coast of Vancouver
Island. WCVI waters will remain closed until mid to late April to address
conservation concerns for Fraser River Spring chinook stocks of concern. A
Fishery Notice will be released the week of April 02 regarding future fishing
opportunities.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Alistair Thomson 250-618-7600
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0175
Sent March 9, 2012 at 1148
All, Cut Plug is quite correct, the numbers given that say recreational catch is 500,000 Chinook are someone's idea of a joke. Go to the Pacific Salmon Commission web site, and look up the annual catch of Canada as presented for 2010 in the Chinook Technical Committee Report, which is the latest data there. Reviewing the Total Canadian Catch, (North, Central and WCVI ) for AABM Fisheries ( mixed stock) you see approx. 100,000 chinook for sport, 170,000 for commercial. Add in the ISBM ( local near shore stocks) and you bring totals to about 178,000 chinook for commercial and 135,000 for sport. My suspicion is that Fish4all was talking to someone about the reported WCVI Chinook catch only, and then he must have had his finger slip on a number key, accidentally multiplying the recreational catch by 10 because the usual numbers are around 120,000 to 140,000 Chinook, although lower in 2010 to about 90,000 I believe. The usual Recreational catch is around 50,000 chinook over the past 10 years. Again, the Canadian reported catch is on the PSC website. This Chinook Technical report also shows the breakdown into commercial, sport, and FN catches by area.
I hope the SFAC meeting goes well, and provides accurate numbers rather than the numbers just tossed about here on occasion.
I hope the SFAC meeting goes well, and provides accurate numbers rather than the numbers just tossed about here on occasion.
snowwhite02
New Member
Yet again the sporties are paying the price. Lets see if they have the balls to due the same to FNS. Ireally dought it. Conserve in the ocean so they can take in the river it just dosnt make sense.Just my twocents worth Tightlines Snowwhite
Charlie
Well-Known Member
You guys know… I recently received the following from an individual who actually knows what he is talking about. I am finding his observation true and in fact, I couldn’t state it better, so I do quote and think about it:
“I don't bother to check the forum very often. It has turned into a whining platform for 16 of the 4700 members. It was meant to share fishing news and reports. Now, as soon as someone starts a fishing report thread someone jumps over from the 'bad news' opinion area and pollutes the new thread.” Some of you guys are a piece of cake, and I sure am glad, I am not eating any of that crap some are trying to feed – as I would choke on it!
There are Fraser Chinook harvested by the WCVI and North British Columbia. There are also some harvested in SE Alaska, some by Washington and Oregon fleets.
FYI… For ones who don’t know, those Chinook come out of the Fraser, migrate on both sides of Vancouver Island (some actually go down the Washington Coast before turning back north), up the coast as far north as Kodiak Island. Some don't migrate any farther than SE Alaska. The Chinook “by-catch” in the Bering Sea everyone is screaming about are Alaska Chinook. NONE of yours (or mine) as our salmon normally will not enter the Bering Sea that is, unless they flat-out get lost.
Just for the record and not saying anyone is good or bad, do or don’t break the rules, or whatever trash some one to bring up; the Canadian commercial “Chinook” fleet is VERY WELL monitored. And, I do mean BY EVERYONE all the way from Alaska down to California. While the Canadian fleet is allowed to harvest OUR endangered species, if they start picking-up to many Canadian 'Chinook of concern' (and if you just noticed), they are - SHUT DOWN! You cannot blame any commercial Chinook (be it troll or net) for any “Chinook” closing – notice I am saying “Chinook closures.” IMHO DFO is actually allowing some of your "spring" returns (e.g. the Robertson-Stamp) to be killed off by their mismanaged timings! The upcoming “Chinook” closers are DFO created, Canada knows YOU HAVE PROBLEMS and Canada is NOT taking steps to fix the problems. Simply put, Canada knows “YOUR WILD SALMON ARE DYING” and have chosen to continue managing your salmon to EXTINCTION! "Canada" sees value in "fish farms" and NO value in the Pacific salmon! They have made that VERY CLEAR!
Just cut the crap between who is commercial and who is sport and realize if both sectors don’t get their heads out of their @ss and join forces neither will have anything left to argue about! That is, except whom to blame for the entire fishery dying! Want to blame ANYONE, I suggest start with the root of the problem the government of Canada. First, if your government continues to allow the salmon spawning grounds and their environment to be degraded, polluted, and destroyed, it is easy the salmon will just - continue dying. Secondly, if the government of Canada continues to allow those “fish farms” to spread and pass diseases back and forth (that is for both outgoing and returning) the salmon will – continue to dying! Sorry, but if the sport and commercial sectors continue to let your government divide you (and the First Nations) and proceed on its current path, no one is going to have anything to argue about as the entire fishery - WILL BE DEAD, PERIOD!
As some know, I actually follow “Chinook” - closely. It seems there are some numbers thrown around that I find very interesting. I honestly don’t know where most of these number are coming from, and hope my guess is true that they are BS numbers. To those, you need to stop spreading false numbers, especially concerning “Chinook”. To some others, IMHO might want to do a little more research on Chinook. Along with those DFO links already posted, which are "mostly" accurate (you might/will find very small differences in numbers when comparing reports), the following will answer most questions:
‘PACIFIC SALMON COMMISSION JOINT CHINOOK TECHNICAL COMMITTEE REPORT 2011 ANNUAL REPORT OF CATCHES AND ESCAPEMENTS’
[url]http://www.psc.org/pubs/TCCHINOOK12-1.pdf[/URL]
If you read the above, you will find most of the “accurate as can be” numbers some are looking for. Which actually mean nothing, other than just being a “post stirrer” Most of Chinook sport and commercial sector allowed to be harvested (not all, I’ll get to that) is controlled by Pacific Salmon Treaty (PST). The numbers vary from year to year and can fluctuate greatly, depending on abundance. It would be very possible to see a 50,000 piece swing from one year to the next. So, let us just simmer and/or settle this “pot” BS - once and for all! I DARE "ANYONE" TO TELL ME THESE NUMBERS ARE NOT CORRECT!
| Table 1.3 Summary of landed catch by gear for Canadian Aggregate Abundance Based Management (AABM) fisheries in 2010. AABM Fishery | Troll | Sport | Total |
| Northern British Columbia | 90,213 | 46,400 | 136,613 |
| West Coast Vancouver Island | 84,123 | 54,924 | 139,047 |
| | 174,336 | 101,324 | |
Well that kind of clears up how many Chinook were landed in the AABM Fishery for 2010, doesn’t it? FYI… the 2011 numbers are NOT published and if you want to see what the limit were, they are in the above report. I am sure if one wanted them they could contact and get them, which I might just be doing. (I’ll get to that later, also).
The above numbers are the AABM Fisher, meaning they are controlled by the PST! To those you have to add the ‘Canadian Individual Stock Based Management Fisheries (ISMB). Those are the Chinook taken on the “inside" Canada waters, deemed to be Canadian Chinook. That is an addition 164,145 Chinook not counted in the AABM. Who caught them? I personally am not going to take the time to dig those ISMB numbers out; however, those Chinook were caught in the inside waters only (e.g. mouth of the rivers). I believe you will find “if I am correct” that would be an additional 67,563 for commercials and 96,582 for sports. So, “if I am correct” (feel free to dig them out yourself and correct, if you wish) your commercial total Chinook harvest was 241,899 versus sports of 197,906. That is only about 300,000 Chinook, or so, short of that 500,000 CHINOOK numbers being thrown out there.
Now for "I will get to that later"! Those interesting numbers being thrown around I really have some questions of my own and will add some comments! I very much would like more information on those alleged 500,000 pieces of “Chinook” taken by the Canadian sport sector that are being insisted are “fact”. Dude, this be a public forum and I be a "YANK"! I would also like to know what areas those Chinook were taken, as I do assure there are many individuals (including myself) familiar with Chinook migration routes. If the Canada sport sector indeed, suddenly harvest 500,000 pieces of Chinook that is well over the PST limits and this "YANK" wants to know – those would most likely be MY U.S. Chinook you are talking about and that my friend is a 300,000 over-harvest surely will create some very “high international attention” especially with within the States of Washington, Oregon, and Idaho. And… just for clarification, I be one of those "YANK" from Washington and I not be pleased with anyone stating Canada breaching of the Pacific Salmon Treaty – is “fact”! If it isn't clear enough yet! If your facts are correct. I will be personally doing everything I possibly can to initiate an investigation. I will be personally asking my government for monetary compensation from the government of Canada. I will personally be asking the funds currently held in trust (for the government of Canada) to immediately be frozen. So, you just BRING ON THOSE FACTS “BIG BOY” as this “YANK” really wants to know the "FACTS"!
Cut Plug
Well-Known Member
You know, in hindsight I regret the tone of my earlier posts. While I still vehemently disagree with spreading falsehoods about another sector's catch, accountability etc as a method to further your own personal or sectoral objectives, sinking to the level of insults accomplishes nothing.
This is an issue that in a perfect world would bring the ocean harvest interests together in order to hold DFO's feet to the fire to actually do something meaningful for this stock of Chinook. The information I have been presented by DFO officials is that the recreational catch of Fraser 5\2 Chinook in Juan de Fuca Strait could be driven to zero and it would still accomplish nothing in terms of recovering these stocks.
Chipping away at marine harvests that all combined (commercial and recreational) amount to typically less than 15% of the total harvest related impacts on these stocks is smoke and mirrors in its worst form. I'm all for conservation, but in this case what DFO is doing is to try and pacify other interests by demonstrating "something is being done" when in reality its accomplishing nothing in terms of stock recovery.
Further, even though DFO has been aware these stocks are in delcine for close to a decade, that have done absolutely nothing from a habitat and production perspective to effect a recovery to abundant levels. Habitat work, enforcement of the Fisheries act in terms of habitat and water withdrawl etc is virtually non-existant. What we have been told, is that after all this time that DFO may have a plan in place by the end of the year to maybe start looking in to the problem and see what they can do. Completely unacceptable lack of urgency.
In fact, by elevating this issue to the public domain by refusing to accept further, meaningless restrictions I believe we are actually doing more for these fish in the long run than any other thing we could do. DFO needs to get on this and do domething meaningful.
Smoke and mirrors won't cut it - the fish deserve better.
CP
This is an issue that in a perfect world would bring the ocean harvest interests together in order to hold DFO's feet to the fire to actually do something meaningful for this stock of Chinook. The information I have been presented by DFO officials is that the recreational catch of Fraser 5\2 Chinook in Juan de Fuca Strait could be driven to zero and it would still accomplish nothing in terms of recovering these stocks.
Chipping away at marine harvests that all combined (commercial and recreational) amount to typically less than 15% of the total harvest related impacts on these stocks is smoke and mirrors in its worst form. I'm all for conservation, but in this case what DFO is doing is to try and pacify other interests by demonstrating "something is being done" when in reality its accomplishing nothing in terms of stock recovery.
Further, even though DFO has been aware these stocks are in delcine for close to a decade, that have done absolutely nothing from a habitat and production perspective to effect a recovery to abundant levels. Habitat work, enforcement of the Fisheries act in terms of habitat and water withdrawl etc is virtually non-existant. What we have been told, is that after all this time that DFO may have a plan in place by the end of the year to maybe start looking in to the problem and see what they can do. Completely unacceptable lack of urgency.
In fact, by elevating this issue to the public domain by refusing to accept further, meaningless restrictions I believe we are actually doing more for these fish in the long run than any other thing we could do. DFO needs to get on this and do domething meaningful.
Smoke and mirrors won't cut it - the fish deserve better.
CP
Last edited by a moderator:
"Just cut the crap between who is commercial and who is sport and realize if both sectors don’t get their heads out of their @ss and join forces neither will have anything left to argue about! That is, except whom to blame for the entire fishery dying! Want to blame ANYONE, I suggest start with the root of the problem the government of Canada. First, if your government continues to allow the salmon spawning grounds and their environment to be degraded, polluted, and destroyed, it is easy the salmon will just - continue dying. Secondly, if the government of Canada continues to allow those “fish farms” to spread and pass diseases back and forth (that is for both outgoing and returning) the salmon will – continue to dying! Sorry, but if the sport and commercial sectors continue to let your government divide you (and the First Nations) and proceed on its current path, no one is going to have anything to argue about as the entire fishery - WILL BE DEAD, PERIOD!"
You hit the nail on the head Charlie. We can fight amongst ourselves over who gets what but it won't matter a fart in a windstorm once the Canadian governments (federal and provincial) have allowed or even encouraged the extinction of the wild Pacific salmon, which seems to be their plan. The enemy is not the commercial fleet, the FN's or the rec anglers, it's our own government!
You hit the nail on the head Charlie. We can fight amongst ourselves over who gets what but it won't matter a fart in a windstorm once the Canadian governments (federal and provincial) have allowed or even encouraged the extinction of the wild Pacific salmon, which seems to be their plan. The enemy is not the commercial fleet, the FN's or the rec anglers, it's our own government!
getbent
Well-Known Member
“I don't bother to check the forum very often. It has turned into a whining platform for 16 of the 4700 members. It was meant to share fishing news and reports.
Nuff said X2
again Charlie you say it as it is.
It is All of our responsibility to look out for the Pacific Salmon and that we are not doing.
getbent
Nuff said X2
again Charlie you say it as it is.
It is All of our responsibility to look out for the Pacific Salmon and that we are not doing.
getbent
Wtf!
http://www.sierraclub.bc.ca/our-work/seafood-oceans/spotlights/no-habitat-no-fish
this doesn't sound very good....
Its like wild salmon are the electric car.....
Its clear that our "leaders" want the quick bucks from fish farms and in turn have no problem selling out the "Canadian People"(sheeple), and wild salmon, for their own profit interest. Maybe the sport sector could "out bribe" the fish farmers......wonder what they're getting paid. I guess its all about the kick backs for the greasy politicians. I think the root of all these problems is buried deeper than most are willing to dig. Our gov is fubard and as long as the people get "sicker" and more detached from any kind of sustainable living philosophy, the more "they" win and the more "they" can take. Its called "order out of chaos", definitely not "order out of abundance and sustainability". "Divide and conquer" is the name of the game folks....
It is not even Canadians in control of Canada anymore, that is just the illusion. Who really owns Canada and its resources? Just look at how many people don't even vote. The weapons of mass distraction have been working well.
We are in away just lucky to be living in the final frontier of mother nature...Look at the rest of the planet and that is where we are heading. More people living in bigger cities feeding off the grocery stores while the once vibrant fish filled rivers rivers will be DEAD!!!
I guess someone has paid a lot of money for this country and they will do as they please....
http://www.sierraclub.bc.ca/our-work/seafood-oceans/spotlights/no-habitat-no-fish
this doesn't sound very good....
Its like wild salmon are the electric car.....
Its clear that our "leaders" want the quick bucks from fish farms and in turn have no problem selling out the "Canadian People"(sheeple), and wild salmon, for their own profit interest. Maybe the sport sector could "out bribe" the fish farmers......wonder what they're getting paid. I guess its all about the kick backs for the greasy politicians. I think the root of all these problems is buried deeper than most are willing to dig. Our gov is fubard and as long as the people get "sicker" and more detached from any kind of sustainable living philosophy, the more "they" win and the more "they" can take. Its called "order out of chaos", definitely not "order out of abundance and sustainability". "Divide and conquer" is the name of the game folks....
It is not even Canadians in control of Canada anymore, that is just the illusion. Who really owns Canada and its resources? Just look at how many people don't even vote. The weapons of mass distraction have been working well.
We are in away just lucky to be living in the final frontier of mother nature...Look at the rest of the planet and that is where we are heading. More people living in bigger cities feeding off the grocery stores while the once vibrant fish filled rivers rivers will be DEAD!!!
I guess someone has paid a lot of money for this country and they will do as they please....
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Sorry I couldn't help posting this again here as I thought it fits
Wow this site is becoming a joke. Way to many people pointing fingers at everything in sight with no facts to back up their claims. I recommend to everyone slinging mud that they back their points up with some facts or realistic points. This is not directed at the long line off Vic topic but at the many rediculous comments that seem to follow every thread these days.
X2 couldn't agree more
I agree with you both on this. However, I think what is happening is also quite normal and understandable. First, this is a informal forum to express peoples opnions, thoughts and ideas. Backing them up with facts is great and more ethical, but this isn't a academic journal that demands everthing posting here has to be backed up by data. Second, whose facts should people use? It seems in our information age every side has more than enough "facts" to back up their position. There are numereous examples of guys throwing "their" numbers at each other to no avail. Third, and most importantly, it is a sign of the times we fishers find oursleves in. I think most of us (including myself) are getting overwhelmed by all the problems and issues that are impacting fishing in BC (i.e. sports, commercial and industrial). There are so many problems (i.e. climate change, habitat destruction, over fishing, pollution, spread of disease, allocation issues, incompetant management, political corruption, shifting govt. priorities, govt. budget cuts, lack of public interest, sectoral infighting.... the list goes on). People are overwhelmed, angry, afraid, confused, bitter and impassioned, so it is pretty normal for people to lash out in a forum like this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is necessarily a good thing, but under the circumstances, it is understandble.
So what do I think we should do? A good question that I wish I had the perfect answer for - but I don't. But maybe if we work together we can find it!
I will say that if there ever was a time for like minded people who want to see postive change in our fisheries to UNITE it is NOW!
Now is the time for us to come together and focus our energies to fight the problems and not each other! We need to join existing groups and organizations (or form new ones if needed) that fight for the changes we want to see. The time for sitting back and arguing fruitlessly on a forum like this are over. There are too many issues that will destroy fishing as we know and enjoy. NOW IS THE TIME FOR US TO ACT (peacefully and legally of course) TO BRING THE CHANGES WE WANT TO SEE!!!
My 2 bits, hopefully many others feel the same way.
Gunsmith
Well-Known Member
Bedtime prayer in British Columbia
Dear Lord:
I know that I don't talk to you that much, but over the past few years you have taken away my favorite actor, Patrick Swayze, my favorite Expo Gary Carter, my favorite actress, Farah Fawcett and my favorite musicians,Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson.
I just wanted to let you know that my favorite politician is Steven Harper...
Amen
Dear Lord:
I know that I don't talk to you that much, but over the past few years you have taken away my favorite actor, Patrick Swayze, my favorite Expo Gary Carter, my favorite actress, Farah Fawcett and my favorite musicians,Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson.
I just wanted to let you know that my favorite politician is Steven Harper...
Amen
Englishman
Well-Known Member
Charlie
Well-Known Member
IMHO... I do NOT think so!!
HoochieMama
Member
If Alex Morton is right, then unless/until the fish farms are dealt with, then closures are inevitable...but also ineffective.
casper5280
Crew Member
X2 Charlie as usual you are a wealth of information and a great asset to the forum. I always look forward to your options when you chirp in to the posts as they pop up. ThanksThanks Charlie another good post, I appreciate all you do on this forum.
As i understand it ,the number of chinook taken in the sport sector was in the 200,000 fish so i stand corrected and will find out the real number
http://www.timescolonist.com/Chinook+fishery+woes+being+spread+around+says/6327429/story.html
Another newspaper story
Another newspaper story
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Simply more "Spin" from The Dino. Damn Good at that they are.
Although they do actually admit therein just which Faction takes the largest share of the stocks in decline...
A meeting between DFO and southern Vancouver Island sports fishers will begin at 7 p.m. Wednesday at the Four Points Sheraton in Langford.
Nog - Wish I had the fuel to attend...
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