All Things COVID-19

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GLG said:
Moderna has not been authorized for anyone under 18 in Canada. Pfizer is what has been given to the that age group so your point is mute.
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Moot or mute?

Either way this recent turn of events in Scandinavia does bring into question both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine for people under 30 (the vaccines are very similar, and have been touted as interchangeable throughout this)

Considering the low risk of covid ill effects for this demographic and the apparent risk of myocarditis/pericarditis, I don't think you can logically mute these concerns. This recent news doesn't do anything to lessen the concerns people have had with these vaccines. It warrants a discussion and further evaluation.

If you're young and extreme low risk from Covid, it seems logical to consider to take chances with a virus they have most certainly been exposed to or even contracted over the last 2 years rather than inject yourself with something that could impact your ticker.
 
tightlines said:
Moot or mute?

Either way this recent turn of events in Scandinavia does bring into question both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine for people under 30 (the vaccines are very similar, and have been touted as interchangeable throughout this)

Considering the low risk of covid ill effects for this demographic and the apparent risk of myocarditis/pericarditis, I don't think you can logically mute these concerns. This recent news doesn't do anything to lessen the concerns people have had with these vaccines. It warrants a discussion and further evaluation.

If you're young and extreme low risk from Covid, it seems logical to consider to take chances with a virus they have most certainly been exposed to or even contracted over the last 2 years rather than inject yourself with something that could impact your ticker.
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No it does not bring into question Pfizer. Where did you get that? I think the takeaway is that they have more information and there is a slight increase in risk in Moderna(they say minor in the articles). With having another option that does not have this risk they will suggest using the option.

I think that is fair. When faced with two choices that are pretty equal and one has a documented slight chance of bad outcome you go with the one that does not have a documented risk. This is what you do when you have access to both and there is no longer a shortage of supply.
 
tightlines said:
Moot or mute?

Either way this recent turn of events in Scandinavia does bring into question both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine for people under 30 (the vaccines are very similar, and have been touted as interchangeable throughout this)

Considering the low risk of covid ill effects for this demographic and the apparent risk of myocarditis/pericarditis, I don't think you can logically mute these concerns. This recent news doesn't do anything to lessen the concerns people have had with these vaccines. It warrants a discussion and further evaluation.

If you're young and extreme low risk from Covid, it seems logical to consider to take chances with a virus they have most certainly been exposed to or even contracted over the last 2 years rather than inject yourself with something that could impact your ticker.
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You would need to know what the difference between the vaccines are to understand why Pfizer is ok but not so much for Moderna.
Look I get it, your not a fan of Covid-19 vaccines and your going to search the earth to convince yourself that your view is the correct one.
I'll go with what the professionals say and disregard your views especially when it comes to risk or what's better Covid-19 or a vaccine.
 
tightlines said:
Moot or mute?

Either way this recent turn of events in Scandinavia does bring into question both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine for people under 30 (the vaccines are very similar, and have been touted as interchangeable throughout this)

Considering the low risk of covid ill effects for this demographic and the apparent risk of myocarditis/pericarditis, I don't think you can logically mute these concerns. This recent news doesn't do anything to lessen the concerns people have had with these vaccines. It warrants a discussion and further evaluation.

If you're young and extreme low risk from Covid, it seems logical to consider to take chances with a virus they have most certainly been exposed to or even contracted over the last 2 years rather than inject yourself with something that could impact your ticker.
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Ask Josh Archibald or Alex Stalock how that’s working out for them.
Or ask the 22 year old with no comorbidities that died in Alberta two days ago…oh wait.
(by the way, myocarditis from covid is IIRC, 10-20 times more common than myocarditis from the vaccine)
 
pdfish said:
Ask Josh Archibald or Alex Stalock how that’s working out for them.
Or ask the 22 year old with no comorbidities that died in Alberta two days ago…oh wait.
(by the way, myocarditis from covid is IIRC, 10-20 times more common than myocarditis from the vaccine)
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True but that's overall in all age groups and comobidities, but myocarditis from covid in healthy children and young adults is very rare. Myocarditis in healthy children and young adult males from MRNA vaccines is approximately 1 in 5000. Datasets are being mixed to obfuscate the myocarditis risk. If you are a healthy, young 12-29 year old MALE, there is potentially a significantly greater risk from the vaccine than the virus. ANYONE else, the vaccine probably wins in the risk-reward calculation.

If you're young and have comorbidities, or immune challenges, you should probably get the vaccine. If you're young and healthy and female, the mRNA vaccine probably poses less risk than covid. The issue is young, healthy, males. There needs to be room for a bit of nuance in all these forced policies to account for these risks. I am not at all okay with my 12 year old boy getting the vaccine because it seems to put him at significantly greater risk than Covid itself.
 
ryanb said:
True but that's overall in all age groups and comobidities, but myocarditis from covid in healthy children and young adults is very rare. Myocarditis in healthy children and young adult males from MRNA vaccines is approximately 1 in 5000. Datasets are being mixed to obfuscate the myocarditis risk. If you are a healthy, young 12-29 year old MALE, there is potentially a significantly greater risk from the vaccine than the virus. ANYONE else, the vaccine probably wins in the risk-reward calculation.

If you're young and have comorbidities, or immune challenges, you should probably get the vaccine. If you're young and healthy and female, the mRNA vaccine probably poses less risk than covid. The issue is young, healthy, males. There needs to be room for a bit of nuance in all these forced policies to account for these risks. I am not at all okay with my 12 year old boy getting the vaccine because it seems to put him at significantly greater risk than Covid itself.
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I'm sure you have data to back that up right? Maybe a link with the source of this highly questionable view.
 
ryanb said:
True but that's overall in all age groups and comobidities, but myocarditis from covid in healthy children and young adults is very rare. Myocarditis in healthy children and young adult males from MRNA vaccines is approximately 1 in 5000. Datasets are being mixed to obfuscate the myocarditis risk. If you are a healthy, young 12-29 year old MALE, there is potentially a significantly greater risk from the vaccine than the virus. ANYONE else, the vaccine probably wins in the risk-reward calculation.

If you're young and have comorbidities, or immune challenges, you should probably get the vaccine. If you're young and healthy and female, the mRNA vaccine probably poses less risk than covid. The issue is young, healthy, males. There needs to be room for a bit of nuance in all these forced policies to account for these risks. I am not at all okay with my 12 year old boy getting the vaccine because it seems to put him at significantly greater risk than Covid itself.
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I completely understand where you’re coming from. I’m struggling with the idea of my eldest being eligible next year. However, your numbers are incorrect. Males age 12-17, 450 cases per million of myocarditis from infection. Same group, 77 cases per million of myocarditis from the vaccine.
www.newscientist.com

Myocarditis is more common after covid-19 infection than vaccination

A preliminary study suggests that, among those most likely to develop myocarditis, the heart condition is six times more likely to occur after having covid-19 than after getting vaccinated
www.newscientist.com www.newscientist.com
 
We won't go back to normal till they jab the kids it's just the way it's going to be. I believe the vaccine for kids is going to be 1/3 of the adult dose for pfizer.

Moderna is also way stronger the pfizer and that's why some have reported worse symptoms from it.

T"he dose of RNA encapsulated in those fat bubbles is different too: Moderna has a much higher dose (100 micrograms) compared with Pfizer (30 micrograms)."
 
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pdfish said:
I completely understand where you’re coming from. I’m struggling with the idea of my eldest being eligible next year. However, your numbers are incorrect. Males age 12-17, 450 cases per million of myocarditis from infection. Same group, 77 cases per million of myocarditis from the vaccine.
www.newscientist.com

Myocarditis is more common after covid-19 infection than vaccination

A preliminary study suggests that, among those most likely to develop myocarditis, the heart condition is six times more likely to occur after having covid-19 than after getting vaccinated
www.newscientist.com www.newscientist.com
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Not sure what data source that news article is using. Their figures for covid caused myocarditis in that age bracket are way out of line with what I've read about.

I generally try to verify claims by looking in medical journals as opposed to news articles.
 
ryanb said:
Not sure what data source that news article is using. Their figures for covid caused myocarditis in that age bracket are way out of line with what I've read about.

I generally try to verify claims by looking in medical journals as opposed to news articles.
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Would you care to post some links to these medical journals? I’m assuming they’re peer reviewed.
 
ryanb said:
Which part do you consider questionable?
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With all due respect.
Here is what I have a problem with.

"Myocarditis in healthy children and young adult males from MRNA vaccines is approximately 1 in 5000. Datasets are being mixed to obfuscate the myocarditis risk. If you are a healthy, young 12-29 year old MALE, there is potentially a significantly greater risk from the vaccine than the virus."

"I am not at all okay with my 12 year old boy getting the vaccine because it seems to put him at significantly greater risk than Covid itself."

We do keep track of these issues (Myocarditis) and every once in a while it comes up at one of the press conferences. That's why I'm flagging it. To say that it's an issue is contrary to everything I have heard or read.

Here is the data from BC.
index.php

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/covid-19-vaccine/vaccine-safety
 
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GLG said:
With all due respect.
Here is what I have a problem with.

"Myocarditis in healthy children and young adult males from MRNA vaccines is approximately 1 in 5000. Datasets are being mixed to obfuscate the myocarditis risk. If you are a healthy, young 12-29 year old MALE, there is potentially a significantly greater risk from the vaccine than the virus."

"I am not at all okay with my 12 year old boy getting the vaccine because it seems to put him at significantly greater risk than Covid itself."

We do keep track of these issues (Myocarditis) and every once in a while it comes up at one of the press conferences. That's why I'm flagging it. To say that it's an issue is contrary to everything I have heard or read.

Here is the data from BC.
index.php

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/covid-19-vaccine/vaccine-safety
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Okay, the issue as I see it is that it's exceedingly rare for someone under say 25 years old who is healthy to end up in hospital with covid. While it's also rare for the myocarditis from the vaccine, the relative risks of covid for that age group make the vaccine benefit questionable. A number of western countries have recognized this and are discontinuing the use of these vaccines for young folks. I'm not buying into the conspiracy theories, but the inconsistent messaging really throws up flags for me. I'm just one parent trying to do what's best for my kids and trying to get the info from the best sources I can.
 
ryanb said:
Okay, the issue as I see it is that it's exceedingly rare for someone under say 25 years old who is healthy to end up in hospital with covid. While it's also rare for the myocarditis from the vaccine, the relative risks of covid for that age group make the vaccine benefit questionable. A number of western countries have recognized this and are discontinuing the use of these vaccines for young folks. I'm not buying into the conspiracy theories, but the inconsistent messaging really throws up flags for me. I'm just one parent trying to do what's best for my kids and trying to get the info from the best sources I can.
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No, they are saying use Pfizer not don't get vaccinated. Very different.
 
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ryanb said:
Okay, the issue as I see it is that it's exceedingly rare for someone under say 25 years old who is healthy to end up in hospital with covid. While it's also rare for the myocarditis from the vaccine, the relative risks of covid for that age group make the vaccine benefit questionable. A number of western countries have recognized this and are discontinuing the use of these vaccines for young folks. I'm not buying into the conspiracy theories, but the inconsistent messaging really throws up flags for me. I'm just one parent trying to do what's best for my kids and trying to get the info from the best sources I can.
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WMY posted a credible link, here it is again.
http://www.bcchildrens.ca/about/new...arditis-pericarditis-and-the-covid-19-vaccine

From there it has another link that helps you judge what sources you should listen to.
http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/dis...ow-to-find-trusted-information-about-vaccines

CBC, CTV and Global have done really good coverage on the safety of the vaccines with creditable interviews with doctors that are well informed.

BC CDC has lots of information and a telephone number if you need help.
http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19

The best advice would be to follow what your family doctor suggests.
 
GLG said:
WMY posted a credible link, here it is again.
http://www.bcchildrens.ca/about/new...arditis-pericarditis-and-the-covid-19-vaccine

From there it has another link that helps you judge what sources you should listen to.
http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/dis...ow-to-find-trusted-information-about-vaccines

CBC, CTV and Global have done really good coverage on the safety of the vaccines with creditable interviews with doctors that are well informed.

BC CDC has lots of information and a telephone number if you need help.
http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19

The best advice would be to follow what your family doctor suggests.
Click to expand...

If there were 37 cases of heart inflammation in 29 and youngers from the vaccine, as the data from bccdc indicates, then clearly the chances are much higher than 1 in 100,000 your bc children's link wrongly indicates. If it were, that would mean 3.7 million 29 and youngers have been vaccinated in BC. This is my problem, the authorities are not being truthful about the risk.

How are people to trust them about the safety of the vaccines when they minimize or underreport the risks.
 
ryanb said:
If there were 37 cases of heart inflammation in 29 and youngers from the vaccine, as the data from bccdc indicates, then clearly the chances are much higher than 1 in 100,000 your bc children's link wrongly indicates. If it were, that would mean 3.7 million 29 and youngers have been vaccinated in BC. This is my problem, the authorities are not being truthful about the risk.

How are people to trust them about the safety of the vaccines when they minimize or underreport the risks.
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The link was for children aged 12 to 17 so you cant just lump them into the 29 and younger and call it good.
 
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