alex morton

[Charlie]

So where is Morton qualified in any way to speculate on fish pathology, virology or any of the other topics she routinely bloviates about?

As far as I can tell the only reason she had her name on any of those papers is because she went out and caught the fish.

That is a double-edged sword you are swinging there....

Actually Ck you not going back to school really would make you a “college dropout.” with only the ability to present s “lay” knowledge and unfortunately, you are also only providing “hearsay” PR BS. If you aren’t sure what either is look them up but in short… “Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone.”

While I certainly do appreciate lay knowledge (Birdsnest), CK by no means has the CREDIBILITY to even comment on Alexandra Morton credentials, credibility, or education in any form. Apparently CK doesn't know what that B.Sc by her name even means; however, what difference does it make whether one holds a BA or BS?

“Biology BS and BA Programs 1) What are the differences between the BS and BA programs?
The Biology BS program is a structured program that requires students to complete additional coursework in the physical sciences and mathematics (i.e., organic chemistry, calculus-based physics, and Calculus II).

The Biology BA program also has a solid foundation in biology, but allows more flexibility in course selection by removing some of the chemistry and quantitative requirements that characterize the BS program. Thus, students in the BA program can either add more depth and focus around a sub-discipline or have more breadth, either within the biology curriculum or by taking advantage of the BA elective options.

In case you don’t know that B.Sc means she does indeed hold a BS in Biology. Who happened to graduate Magna *** Laude, which requires a GPA of 3.81—3.90. Let me help you out here, here are the current requirements for a BS at American University:

Admission to the Program
Admission is through formal declaration of major. The department counsels freshmen and transfer students.

University Requirements

• A total of 120 credit hours
• 6 credit hours of college writing
• 3 credit hours of college mathematics or the equivalent by examination

General Education Requirements

• A total of ten courses, consisting of two courses from each of
  the five foundational areas
• At least one course from Area Five: The Natural and
  Mathematical Sciences must include a laboratory science
  component
• No more than two courses may be taken in the same
  discipline

Major Requirements

• 72 credit hours with grades of C or better

Course Requirements
Departmental Requirements

• BIO-110 General Biology I (4)
• BIO-210 General Biology II (4)
• BIO-300 Cell Biology with Laboratory (4)
• BIO-356 Genetics with Laboratory (5)
• BIO-364 Evolution (3)
• BIO-499 Senior Seminar in Biology (3)
• 17 credit hours in biology or other courses approved by the department chair at the 300 level or above. Of these 17 credit hours, students many count no more than 3 credit hours from the following: BIO-390 Independent Reading, BIO-490 Independent Study Project in Biology, or BIO-491 Internship, CHEM-560 Biochemistry I, or PSYC-513 Neuropharmacology.

Related Requirements

• CHEM-110 General Chemistry I (4)
• CHEM-210 General Chemistry II (4)
• CHEM-310 Organic Chemistry I (3)
• CHEM-312 Organic Chemistry I Laboratory (1)
• CHEM-320 Organic Chemistry II (3)
• CHEM-322 Organic Chemistry II Laboratory (1)
• MATH-221 Calculus I (4)
• MATH-222 Calculus II (4) or STAT-202 Basic Statistics (4) or STAT-203 Basic Statistics with Calculus (4)
• PHYS-105 General Physics I or PHYS-110 Principles of Physics I (4)
• PHYS-205 General Physics II or PHYS-210 Principles of Physics II (4)

http://www.american.edu/cas/biology/BS-BIO.cfm

 

[GLG]

Funny you didn't post the cohen commision because I cant imagine that your links didn't get reviewed there. After a 26 million$ review the response from cohen sure isn't going off on your links like you do. THat says something to me. IT was mortons idea to do the enquiry and now you dont post it. Its the all time complete summary of all research ever done submitted and reviewed. This was done for the public so I feel good in the content of the report. Which does not say the sky is falling like you always are, mr science guy with the tunnel vision.

You mention Cohen report... here is a link to the news of that day.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/10/31/bc-cohen-salmon-report-released.html

Try to change history and telling us that fish feedlots are not to blame.
Have you even read the report?
75 recommendations and not one of them is kind to your industry.
You, Harper™ Government©, urban sprawl and climate change are the bad actors.
Your industry is a parasite on this coast and should be removed.
And yes a lot of us are working on the other bad actors as well.
GLG

 

[Charlie]

I am so sorry CK… how many awards did you say you have? Alex has the following:
Awards

• 1991 Sheila A. Egoff Children’s Prize BC Book Prizes
• 2002 Honourable Mention Nature and the Environment Category – National Outdoor Book Award (Listening to Whales)
• 2003 Environmental Contribution Award - Service on the Sea
• 2004 Animal Action Award - International Fund for Animal Welfare
• 2005 Winner BC Book Prize (Stain Upon the Sea)
• 2005 Roderick Haig-Brown Conservation Award - Totem Flyfishers
• 2006 Murray Newman Award – Vancouver Aquarium
• 2007 Conservationist of the Year by BC Wildlife Federation
• 2008 Roland Michener Conservation Award Canadian Wildlife Federation
• 2008 Eugene Rogers environmental Award
• 2010 Honourary PhD Science Simon Fraser University
• 2010 Wings WorldQuest

Excuse me… Let’s compare your books to Alexandra Morton’s?

Books:
Morton, A.B. 1991 Siwiti – A Whale’s Story. Orca Books, Victoria
Morton, A.B. 1993. In the Company of Whales, from the Diary of a Whale Watcher. Orca Books Victoria
Morton, A.B 1998. Life Among the Whales. In: Intimate Nature. Chapter. Ballantine Books New York
Morton, A.B. and Bill Proctor. 1998. Heart of the Raincoast. Horsdal and Schubart , Victoria
Morton, A.B. 2002 Listening to Whales, Random House, New York April 2002
Morton, A.B. 2004 Beyond the Whales, Heritage Press, Victoria
Morton, A.B. et al. 2005 Stain Upon Sea, Chapter Harbour Press

Now… Let’s not forget to compare your publications, to Alex’s:

Publications:
Morton, A. B., 1986. Sound and behavioral correlation in captive Orcinus orca. In: Kirkevold, B.C. and Lockhard, J.S. (eds.) Behavioral biology of killer whales. Alan R. Liss, Inc. New York. Pp. 303-333.

Morton, A.B. 1990. A quantitative comparison of the behaviour of resident and transient forms of the killer whale off the central British Columbia coast. Report of the International Whaling Commission. (special issue 12): 245-248.

Morton, A.B. 2000. Occurrence, photo-identification and prey of Pacific white-sided dolphins (Lagenorhyncus obliquidens) in the Broughton Archipelago, Canada 1985-1997. Marine Mammal Science. 16(1):80-93.

Morton, A.B. and Symonds, H.K. 2002. Displacement of Orcinus orca by high amplitude sound in British Columbia, Canada. ICES Journal of Marine Science. 59: 71-80

Morton, A.B. and Volpe J. 2002 A description of escaped farmed Atlantic salmon Salmo salar captures and their characteristics in one Pacific salmon fishery area in British Columbia Canada, in 2000. Alaska Fishery Research Bulletin, 9: 102-109.

Ford, J.K.B., G. Ellis, L. Barret-Lennard, A.B. Morton, R. Palm and K.C. Balcomb. Diet Specialization in two sympatric populations of killer whales (Orcinus orca) in coastal British Columbia and adjacent waters. Canadian Journal of Zoology. 21: 603-618

Morton, A.B., and Williams R . 2003 Infestation of the sea louse Lepeophtheirus salmonis (Krø.yer) on juvenile pink salmon Oncorhynchus gorbuscha (Walbaum) in British Columbia, Canadian Field Naturalist, 117: 634-641

Morton, A.B., Routledge, R., Peet, C. and Ladwig, A 2004 Sea lice, Lepeophtheirus salmonis, infection rates on juvenile chum and pink salmon in the nearshore marine environment in British Columbia. Canadian Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Science, 61: 147-157.

Blaylock, R. B. Overstreet, R.M. and Morton, A.B. 2005 The pathogenic copepod Phrixocephalus cincinnatus (Copepoda: Pennellidae) in the eye of arrowtooth flounder, Atherestes stomias, and rex sole, Glyptocephalus zachirus, from British Columbia. The European Association of Fish Pathologists, 25: 116-123.

Ford, J.K.B., Matkin, D.R., Balcomb, K.C., Briggs, D., Morton, A.B., Killer whale attacks on Minke Whales: prey capture and antipredator tactics In Press, Marine Mammal Science 21: 603-618.

Morton, A.B., Routledge, R, and Williams R. 2005 Temporal patterns of sea lice infestation on wild Pacific salmon in relation to the fallowing of Atlantic salmon farms. American Journal of Fisheries Management. 25: 811-821 Krkosek, M.,

A. Morton, and J.P. Volpe. 2005. Nonlethal Assessment of Juvenile Pink and Chum Salmon for Parasitic Sea Lice Infections and Fish Health. Transactions of the American Fisheries Society. 134: 711 716

Morton, A.B. and Routledge (2006) Mortality rates for juvenile pink and chum salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha and keta) infested with sea lice (Lepeophtheirus salmonis) in the Broughton Archipelago. Alaska Fisheries Research Bulletin. 11:2, 146-152.

Morton, A.B. and Richard Routledge (2006) Fulton’s Condition Factor: Is it a valid measure of sea lice impact on juvenile salmon? North American Journal of Fisheries Management. 26,56–62.

Krkosek, M., Lewis, M.A., Volpe, J.P., & Morton, A.B.. 2006. Fish Farms and sea lice infestations of wild juvenile salmon in the Broughton Archipelago - A rebuttal to Brooks (2006). Reviews in Fisheries Science. 14: 1-11.

Morton, A.B. and Williams, R. 2006. Response of the Sea Louse Lepeophtheirus salmonis infestation levels on juvenile wild Pink, Oncorhynchus gorbuscha, and Chum, O. keta, salmon, to arrival of parasitized wild adult salmon. Canadian Field Naturalist. 120:2

Krkosek, M., Lewis, M. A., Volpe, J.P. and Morton, A.B.. 2006. Fish Farms and Sea Lice Infestations of Wild Juvenile Salmon in the Broughton Archipelago—A Rebuttal to Brooks (2005). Reviews in Fisheries Science, 14: 1-11

Krkosek, M., Lewis, M., Morton, A. Frazer, N., and Volpe, J. 2006. Epizootics of wild fish induced by farm fish Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 103: 15506-15510.

Krkosek, M., Ford, J. S., Morton, A.B., Lele, S., Myers, R.A., & Lewis, M.A., 2007. Declining wild salmon populations in relation to parasites from farm salmon. Science. 318, 1772-1775.

Krkosek, M., Ford, J. S., Morton, A.B., Lele, S., & Lewis, M.A., 2008. Response to comment on 'Declining wild salmon populations in relation to parasites from farm salmon'. Science. 322, 1790-1791.

Krkosek, M., Ford, J. S., Morton, A.B., Lele, S., & Lewis, M.A., 2008. Sea lice and pink salmon declines: A response to Brooks and Jones. Reviews in Fisheries Science. 16, 413-420.

Morton, A.B., Routledge, R. and Krokosek, M. 2008. Sea lice infestation of wild juvenile salmon and herring associated with fish farms off the east central coast of Vancouver Island, BC. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 28, 523-532.

Krkosek, M., A. Morton, J. Volpe, & M.A. Lewis, 2009. Sea lice and salmon population dynamics: Effects of exposure time for migratory fish. Proceedings of the Royal Society of London Series B. 272:689-696.

BTW… in case you don’t know, the lead scientist’s name is always first. I believe she does a lot more than catch fish!

 

[Charlie]

If Kibenge's lab (which was recently stripped of it's Reference Lab designation - http://www.oie.int/en/for-the-media...le/information-on-oie-reference-laboratories/) was one of them - what were the other 6 she is talking about?

Amazing how that worked, isn't it? "OIE receives a Canadian $2 million contribution from Canada for animal health activities Paris , 26 February 2010 – Canada Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz announced on a visit to the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE) that Canada will contribute Canadian $2 million to support OIE activities. "

http://www.oie.int/en/for-the-media...ion-from-canada-for-animal-health-activities/

 

[agentaqua]

Wow - this thread sure has been rolling along quickly.

This thread is also sounding very similar in content to a thread I started in 2008 about sea lice where the pro-industry lobby also came out against Morton and attacked her credentials when they couldn't attack the science.

Anyone and everyone is entitled to an opinion. Everyone is also entitled to express that opinion, but can be expected to defend the reasoning for that opinion when posting on an open forum like this one.

As far as impacts to wild stocks from the open net-pen industry goes - the opinions one develops can be rooted in either science and/or propoganda.

IF we wish to dig - using open and honest dialogue - one can easily debate the science.

However, the purpose of lobbiests and the communication departments of many corporations and government is to negate the openess and transparency of that debate - because it generally ends-up putting more restrictions on the operations of industry - where they cannot simply offload and externalize impacts to a public resource once the public becomes informed and involved in the behind-the-scenes politics supporting unsustainable practices. Maybe they will be shut down.

there is also a political cost to politicians to change the staus quo as sometimes social disruptions can happen - affecting politicians financial and electorate support. Sometimes the devil you know is best left sleeping (to mix 2 analogies).

All one has to do is look at what the Harper government has been doing this past term - silencing everyone from scientists to librarians to see this in play.

Yes, there are some NGOs that also profit from skewed media stories - but I'd have to say that there are two very important differences that the pro-industry lobby is very careful to ignore and not talk about:

1/ People like Morton really do care about the public resource, and they need money to do the bare bones research that either government should have already done, or industry should be forced into doing, and
2/ Morton and other so-called "antis" actually do credable science that is published. Just because you do not like Morton does not mean that her science is not credable. Her credentials are irrelevant. Her work in the journals speaks for itself - thanks Charlie, Englishman and GLG for posting it. Any lay person w/o any credentials can publish in the journals, and the early history of science is swamped by important "lay persons" who changed what we believe in by being perseverent and doing good science.

We can have a debate on the science - and since the natural world is a noisy place - it takes time to build a case to where the weight of scientific evidence supports the hypothesis that open net-cage technology has serious population-level effects on adjacent wild salmonids. We are there. Been there for some time now - kinda like the smoking/cancer argument where the pro-industry lobbiests denied it for a generation or 2.

This does not mean that for every year in every place that any particular open net-cage site has a serious population-level effect on adjacent wild stocks - just that over time - especially in the years of poor survival and returns - the additional impacts from consecutive open net-cage operations (called cumulative impacts) can be devastating to adjacent wild salmon stocks. The worst places for open net-cages sites are where many adult and/or juvenile salmon swim by.

Englishman has done some considerable work in posting links to some of this work.

CK, Dave and others have been demonstrating how propoganda is used, similar to the take-home lesson from that movie "Thank You for Smoking". I thank them for educating us on the lies and half-truths the industry tells the public, so we can be better prepped to handle them.

The fact that they spend so much time posting on here trying to justify their position w/o actually having any meaningful debate on the science illustrates to me how frightened they are of being wrong, and how stuck they are in denial.

 

[jeffywestcoast]

Thanks AgentAqua , been waiting all morning for a rebuttal from the fish farm advocacy team . Do i hear crickets??

 

[Birdsnest]

Ok you two. While we're at it what are your qualifications? WHere do do you work? If you are not going to answer the questions then at least state why you wont answer them?

Thats an impressive list of mortons accomplishments but little of it is relevant to salmon with the exception of the cluster of sea lice papers which are controversial. Perhaps the list should be edited down relevant accomplishments to the salmon farm issue. Yes she is an accomplished writer and she studies orcas and she is an activist. Are all those papers on sea lice currently accepted?

And once again, where is all the data from 2 years of sampling? What labs? YOur the experts so whats the answer?

You repeatedly suggest that I am a lobbyist but I assure you I am just an average joe. If you cant pick that out from my pour grammar and bad spelling then I dont know what your issue is. Nobody would hire me with these skills. And has it is proven here half of the battle is good english. I would say that there is far more lobbying from the other side of the fence in the manor of constant negative posts that are from all over the world about salmon farms. The latest russia one is interesting. I am sure a similar article exists over in russia stating how all of canada is turning of salmon farms. It so similar to the east coast west coast thing we have here so often now. So who here is a lobbyist or should I say the bigger lobbyist?

Charlie, are you done threatening other forum members or can I expect more of that low brow bullying?

 

[Deewar25]

don't worry u fish farm types...our government is so deep in bed with your bosses that you'll get to wipe out the wild population in no time:

http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/...-ensure-transparency-in-the-global-anima.html

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Wow - this thread sure has been rolling along quickly.

This thread is also sounding very similar in content to a thread I started in 2008 about sea lice where the pro-industry lobby also came out against Morton and attacked her credentials when they couldn't attack the science.

Anyone and everyone is entitled to an opinion. Everyone is also entitled to express that opinion, but can be expected to defend the reasoning for that opinion when posting on an open forum like this one.

As far as impacts to wild stocks from the open net-pen industry goes - the opinions one develops can be rooted in either science and/or propoganda.

IF we wish to dig - using open and honest dialogue - one can easily debate the science.

However, the purpose of lobbiests and the communication departments of many corporations and government is to negate the openess and transparency of that debate - because it generally ends-up putting more restrictions on the operations of industry - where they cannot simply offload and externalize impacts to a public resource once the public becomes informed and involved in the behind-the-scenes politics supporting unsustainable practices. Maybe they will be shut down.

there is also a political cost to politicians to change the staus quo as sometimes social disruptions can happen - affecting politicians financial and electorate support. Sometimes the devil you know is best left sleeping (to mix 2 analogies).

All one has to do is look at what the Harper government has been doing this past term - silencing everyone from scientists to librarians to see this in play.

Yes, there are some NGOs that also profit from skewed media stories - but I'd have to say that there are two very important differences that the pro-industry lobby is very careful to ignore and not talk about:

1/ People like Morton really do care about the public resource, and they need money to do the bare bones research that either government should have already done, or industry should be forced into doing, and
2/ Morton and other so-called "antis" actually do credable science that is published. Just because you do not like Morton does not mean that her science is not credable. Her credentials are irrelevant. Her work in the journals speaks for itself - thanks Charlie, Englishman and GLG for posting it. Any lay person w/o any credentials can publish in the journals, and the early history of science is swamped by important "lay persons" who changed what we believe in by being perseverent and doing good science.

We can have a debate on the science - and since the natural world is a noisy place - it takes time to build a case to where the weight of scientific evidence supports the hypothesis that open net-cage technology has serious population-level effects on adjacent wild salmonids. We are there. Been there for some time now - kinda like the smoking/cancer argument where the pro-industry lobbiests denied it for a generation or 2.

This does not mean that for every year in every place that any particular open net-cage site has a serious population-level effect on adjacent wild stocks - just that over time - especially in the years of poor survival and returns - the additional impacts from consecutive open net-cage operations (called cumulative impacts) can be devastating to adjacent wild salmon stocks. The worst places for open net-cages sites are where many adult and/or juvenile salmon swim by.

Englishman has done some considerable work in posting links to some of this work.

CK, Dave and others have been demonstrating how propoganda is used, similar to the take-home lesson from that movie "Thank You for Smoking". I thank them for educating us on the lies and half-truths the industry tells the public, so we can be better prepped to handle them.

The fact that they spend so much time posting on here trying to justify their position w/o actually having any meaningful debate on the science illustrates to me how frightened they are of being wrong, and how stuck they are in denial.

Yup, this is what happens when all the work put forward by an activist and her accredited cohorts meets the larger world of academia and natural science - they are rebutted and dismissed.
Then, supporters like you guys are left with the inevitable response of blaming Harper and comparing aquaculture to the tobacco industry.

 

[reelfast]

what I learned from the film:

- testing for ISV requires looking for parts of the DNA chain. if testing is looking for a complete sequence its likely to fail.
- there is a difference in the procedures used in the government labs from those used in research labs, the later looking more intensely
- it is highly likely the ISV has mutated already and could be a reason the government labs are having trouble making identifications positive
- samples degrade quickly but there does not seem to be much concern by the government for getting samples to test promptly
- the presence of vast clouds of sea lice cannot be disputed, their presence in large numbers on migrating smolt is indisputed
- perhaps some lab work on smolt similarly infected with lice would resolve this issue once and for all
- Alex is accused of cherry picking, the film clearly demonstrates the same with regard to the government workers
- the Canadian economy depends on extraction industries, they drive the political process, fish farming included
- unless the consumer changes their buying habits, inferior products will continue to be made available
- just like the tobacco and gas and oil industries, the biggest and most important product from the sea food industry is DOUBT
- all of this will continue unless the consumer changes their minds or the Canadian government is put out to pasture


what did I miss????

 

[Seafever]

Just because a person works on a fish farm , it doesn't mean they are more knowledgable than one who doesn't.

Just like in baseball, let's say, where there are non-players on the internet who could smoke the average player's butt with statistics and info on other players and the sport in general.

Like in hockey where a lot of fans know more about every player than the players themselves.

Like in a jury, where most jurors are "lay" people...but make a decision by evidence presented to them from either side.

I notice the pro-fishfarmers seem to be a little be desperate on here............they haven't shown in any way that the current world opinion on fishfarming is faulty.
They flail away aimlessly,hopelessly...attacking any little thing they see....
If they don't have any information...they simply invent it..

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Back to my original question: What are the 7 labs Morton keeps talking about that are finding "segments" of ISA in B.C.?
Hello? Alex? You out there?

So, let me get this straight - I'm not qualified to question someone who - by your own criteria - is not qualified to discuss about 95% of the material she puts forward?

Where is there anything about molecular biology, virology, fish histopathology, or even population dynamics in her CV?

Here's some copy pasta for ya'

Other concerns of Morton have been less than virtuous and have failed scientific scrutiny:

· In 1990, there was a disease outbreak at the Scott Cove Hatchery where Morton volunteered. In 1991, the same disease appeared in nearby salmon farms and in 1993 drug-resistant forms of the bacteria which cause the disease were found in nearby salmon farms. However, Morton blamed salmon farms for causing disease outbreaks and drug-resistant bacteria at the hatchery, despite being given scientific evidence showing that the strains of bacteria in the hatchery and the farms were different. To this day, Morton continues to claim that bacteria from salmon farms affected the hatchery, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. She has never apologized or acknowledged her error.

· When a young killer whale was found dead on British Columbia shores in 1996, Morton claimed that salmon farms were to blame. An autopsy concluded that an abscessed tooth had poisoned the young orca. The doctor who performed the autopsy publicly corrected Morton’s claims, but Morton has never apologized or acknowledged her error.

· After the largest recorded return of wild pink salmon in an area of BC known as the Broughton Archipelago occurred in 2000, a weak return followed in 2002. A David Suzuki Foundation-commissioned report concluded it was likely the previously high brood year that over-populated rivers and reduced the out-migrating juveniles. Morton however claimed it was sea lice from farmed salmon that were the culprit. She took a picture of one fish in a million and posted it on the internet. That was proof enough for many. She published a widely circulated study that claimed “up to 95% mortality of wild pink salmon due to sea lice from salmon farms”, but an independent scientific committee also looked into the issue of potential sea lice effects on wild salmon. The committee did not conclude that salmon farms were any risk to wild pink salmon populations and also requested (and paid for) Morton to revisit her doomsday study and include salmon farm management of the sea lice concern. The follow-up study concluded “The survival of the pink salmon cohort was not statistically different from a reference region without salmon farms”. This study has never been posted by Morton on any of her websites and she refuses to acknowledge it.

· Morton claims that cetaceans (whales, dolphins and porpoises) near her home have vacated the area because of salmon farms. This is not true – cetaceans continue to frequent the area. In fact, in her own research, one of her first published scientific papers, she concluded that after salmon farms ceased using acoustic harassment devices in 1999, whale populations in the Broughton Archipelago had “re-established to baseline levels” by the end of 2000.

· In 2011, Morton claimed to have “found” an exotic fish disease called ‘Infectious Salmon Anemia” in British Columbia salmon. West Coast Canadian and American scientists have never made this same conclusion. The only lab that supports her claim has failed independent quality reviews twice and is now at risk of losing its OIE ranking.

· She formally requested to “medevac” juvenile pink salmon in 2008 (scoop thousands of salmon up near salmon farms and move them to an area beyond the farms). She was, quite correctly, denied by Fisheries and Ocean Canada. Good thing too, because those juvenile salmon returned to their home rivers in 2010, and in very high numbers. They didn’t need her “help”.

http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?tag=alexandra-morton&paged=4



If you want to go somewhere and bash with impunity I suggest you head over to the Salmon Are Sacred Facebook page - there are no dissenting views tolerated there and you guys can safely spout off in a bubble of back-slapping glee.

If not, you will continue to have the queen bee questioned and will inevitably swarm around like a bunch of angry drones chirping righteous indignation and attempting to hit the mark with stings of ad hominem hypocrisy and scientifically flaccid findings.

 

[ClayoquotKid]

what I learned from the film:

- testing for ISV requires looking for parts of the DNA chain. if testing is looking for a complete sequence its likely to fail.
- there is a difference in the procedures used in the government labs from those used in research labs, the later looking more intensely
- it is highly likely the ISV has mutated already and could be a reason the government labs are having trouble making identifications positive
- samples degrade quickly but there does not seem to be much concern by the government for getting samples to test promptly
- the presence of vast clouds of sea lice cannot be disputed, their presence in large numbers on migrating smolt is indisputed
- perhaps some lab work on smolt similarly infected with lice would resolve this issue once and for all
- Alex is accused of cherry picking, the film clearly demonstrates the same with regard to the government workers
- the Canadian economy depends on extraction industries, they drive the political process, fish farming included
- unless the consumer changes their buying habits, inferior products will continue to be made available
- just like the tobacco and gas and oil industries, the biggest and most important product from the sea food industry is DOUBT
- all of this will continue unless the consumer changes their minds or the Canadian government is put out to pasture


what did I miss????

The point entirely, it would seem.

 

[Deewar25]

Back to my original question: What are the 7 labs Morton keeps talking about that are finding "segments" of ISA in B.C.?
Hello? Alex? You out there?

you lazy, or what?

A list of ISA positives found in British Columbia salmon in 7 different labs
1.) Nellie Gagne (DFO/CFIA) weak positive among the 48 Rivers Inlet sockeye. There has been no other reporting on results from samples she has been sent that also tested positive in Dr. Kibenge’s lab. The media continues to report on these 48 samples without mention of the growing list of positives in BC farm salmon.
2.) Cohen exhibit 2053, Farmed chinook salmon, Clayoquot Sound. Creative Salmon provided samples to Dr. Kristi Miller (DFO), Pacific Biological Station, to figure out why their fish were experiencing unexplained persistent mortality and jaundice condition. In Cohen Exhibit 2053, test results are given for 47 farm salmon, from two different salmon farms, 12 tested positive for ISAv.
3.) Cohen exhibit 2060, lists many ISAv positives from the Miller lab (DFO) in wild sockeye salmon from a large number of commercially and socially important BC salmon rivers. Samples were collected in 2007-2010. Miller reports some primers work better than others: “So I believe that what we have in B.C. is a somewhat divergent strain of ISA that is not universally picked up with all -- with the assays that are presently in use... there is always the possibility that you will develop an assay that doesn't pick other variants that you didn't know about. And I believe that that's what's happening here.” (Cohen Commission Testimony, Dec 15, 2011, Page 22)
4.) Sonja Saksida, BC Centre for Aquatic Health Services, reported ISA PCR positives to the CFIA in the farm chinook salmon from Creative Salmon, sequence confirmed for ISA-P7. The only mention of this reporting is in an email from Miller to Stephen Stephens (DFO, OTTAWA) Cohen Exhibit 2055.
5.) Cohen Exhibit 2043, 2056 – positive results by Dr. Kyle Garver, Pacific Biological Station DFO described by Dr. Miller: “So he ran basically the validated assay that Nellie uses, and the ISA-7 Plarre assay and he was able -- he was not able to pick up any positives using the DFO validated assay, but he did pick up a positive of ISA-7 using our assay with our pre-amplification.”
6.) Cohen Exhibit 2045, a 2004 draft paper coauthored by Drs. Molly and Fred Kibenge and Drs. Simon Jones and Garth Traxler (DFO) reporting 115 ISA virus positive results. These results demonstrate up to 99.7% identity to an ISAv isolate from Norway. Sequence was produced. These samples included Atlantic salmon, wild salmon from Alaskan waters, throughout BC and 100% of the Cultus Lake sockeye tested, a Fraser sockeye population that has been declining despite efforts to restore it. It is unclear whether the Americans or the CFIA were informed. This work was never provided to the Cohen Commission by DFO. Dr. Fred Kibenge provided this document to the Commission when he was asked by the Commission to provide all information on ISAv in BC.
7.) Kibenge, AVC, results on 2/48 River’s Inlet sockeye smolts positive for European ISAv genotype
8.) Are Nylund, U. Bergen weak ISA virus positives among the 48 sockeye smolts and ongoing positives in BC samples I am providing to his lab.
9.) Kibenge, AVC, results on 3/11 salmon that died in the Fraser River without spawning positive for European strain ISAv; chinook, coho, sockeye. I am the owner of these samples and they were provided to the CFIA
10.) Kibenge, AVC, results on HPR5 sequenced from a female chum salmon in the Vedder River, a tributary to Cultus Lake. I am owner of these samples and they were provided to the CFIA
11.) Kibenge, AVC, positive results on 19 farm salmon bought in supermarkets in the city of Vancouver. Many are HRP5, one HPR7b, this work is ongoing and will be more fully reported when complete. I am the owner of these samples and they were provided to the CFIA.

 

[ClayoquotKid]

you lazy, or what?

A list of ISA positives found in British Columbia salmon in 7 different labs
1.) Nellie Gagne (DFO/CFIA) weak positive among the 48 Rivers Inlet sockeye. There has been no other reporting on results from samples she has been sent that also tested positive in Dr. Kibenge’s lab. The media continues to report on these 48 samples without mention of the growing list of positives in BC farm salmon.
2.) Cohen exhibit 2053, Farmed chinook salmon, Clayoquot Sound. Creative Salmon provided samples to Dr. Kristi Miller (DFO), Pacific Biological Station, to figure out why their fish were experiencing unexplained persistent mortality and jaundice condition. In Cohen Exhibit 2053, test results are given for 47 farm salmon, from two different salmon farms, 12 tested positive for ISAv.
3.) Cohen exhibit 2060, lists many ISAv positives from the Miller lab (DFO) in wild sockeye salmon from a large number of commercially and socially important BC salmon rivers. Samples were collected in 2007-2010. Miller reports some primers work better than others: “So I believe that what we have in B.C. is a somewhat divergent strain of ISA that is not universally picked up with all -- with the assays that are presently in use... there is always the possibility that you will develop an assay that doesn't pick other variants that you didn't know about. And I believe that that's what's happening here.” (Cohen Commission Testimony, Dec 15, 2011, Page 22)
4.) Sonja Saksida, BC Centre for Aquatic Health Services, reported ISA PCR positives to the CFIA in the farm chinook salmon from Creative Salmon, sequence confirmed for ISA-P7. The only mention of this reporting is in an email from Miller to Stephen Stephens (DFO, OTTAWA) Cohen Exhibit 2055.
5.) Cohen Exhibit 2043, 2056 – positive results by Dr. Kyle Garver, Pacific Biological Station DFO described by Dr. Miller: “So he ran basically the validated assay that Nellie uses, and the ISA-7 Plarre assay and he was able -- he was not able to pick up any positives using the DFO validated assay, but he did pick up a positive of ISA-7 using our assay with our pre-amplification.”
6.) Cohen Exhibit 2045, a 2004 draft paper coauthored by Drs. Molly and Fred Kibenge and Drs. Simon Jones and Garth Traxler (DFO) reporting 115 ISA virus positive results. These results demonstrate up to 99.7% identity to an ISAv isolate from Norway. Sequence was produced. These samples included Atlantic salmon, wild salmon from Alaskan waters, throughout BC and 100% of the Cultus Lake sockeye tested, a Fraser sockeye population that has been declining despite efforts to restore it. It is unclear whether the Americans or the CFIA were informed. This work was never provided to the Cohen Commission by DFO. Dr. Fred Kibenge provided this document to the Commission when he was asked by the Commission to provide all information on ISAv in BC.
7.) Kibenge, AVC, results on 2/48 River’s Inlet sockeye smolts positive for European ISAv genotype
8.) Are Nylund, U. Bergen weak ISA virus positives among the 48 sockeye smolts and ongoing positives in BC samples I am providing to his lab.
9.) Kibenge, AVC, results on 3/11 salmon that died in the Fraser River without spawning positive for European strain ISAv; chinook, coho, sockeye. I am the owner of these samples and they were provided to the CFIA
10.) Kibenge, AVC, results on HPR5 sequenced from a female chum salmon in the Vedder River, a tributary to Cultus Lake. I am owner of these samples and they were provided to the CFIA
11.) Kibenge, AVC, positive results on 19 farm salmon bought in supermarkets in the city of Vancouver. Many are HRP5, one HPR7b, this work is ongoing and will be more fully reported when complete. I am the owner of these samples and they were provided to the CFIA.

That is not 7 different labs.

 

[Deewar25]

That is not 7 different labs.

figured u could connect the dots..not sure why it matters so much to you since it was stated in the enquiry...it appears Atlantic Vet College, Pacific Biological Station, BC Centre for Aquatic Health Services, University of Bergen, the Moncton lab (on the weak positives), and I 'thought' there were 2 or 3 mentioned in Europe in the documentary, but don't recall. Thats just a glance without really getting into it.

 

[jeffywestcoast]

Guess we will see how it all pans out in the end, ck,dave and birdsnest,because all you have done is bashed on someone who is trying to better wild salmon stocks, all you have spouted so far is propaganda and provide no facts to refute the science behind these findings. I 100% agree let's leave the science to people qualified to do so but so far science is NOT in the favor fish farms.LONG LIVE WILD SALMON..

 

[GLG]

That is not 7 different labs.

Well that's a heck of a comeback.....

2.) Cohen exhibit 2053, Farmed chinook salmon, Clayoquot Sound. Creative Salmon provided samples to Dr. Kristi Miller (DFO), Pacific Biological Station, to figure out why their fish were experiencing unexplained persistent mortality and jaundice condition. In Cohen Exhibit 2053, test results are given for 47 farm salmon, from two different salmon farms, 12 tested positive for ISAv.

http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/Exhibits.php

Anymore Jaundice salmon at your Indian farm location? or is it still empty.
Glad someone over there wanted to find out what was going on when they sent samples to Dr. Kristy.
To bad the "Wall of Doubt" came down when the results were made known.
Oh yea you may have the virus but you don't have the disease as per DFO.
And just for good measure if you can replicate the virus from the samples you don't have the virus as per DFO.
Kind of like shipping a live duck form here to Ottawa in a sealed container with an ice pack.
Once there the DNA confirms it's a duck. The visual inspection confirms its a duck.
But wait lets put it in a petri dish and see if it replicates.... no... must not be a duck.

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Guess we will see how it all pans out in the end, ck,dave and birdsnest,because all you have done is bashed on someone who is trying to better wild salmon stocks, all you have spouted so far is propaganda and provide no facts to refute the science behind these findings. I 100% agree let's leave the science to people qualified to do so but so far science is NOT in the favor fish farms.LONG LIVE WILD SALMON..

How much of the funding she has recieved has gone to enhancement or habitat restoration? Things that would actually benefit wild salmon?

How much has gone towards testing? (If you have more than 10 samples you can get them tested for 5 targets for less than $150 - Shipping would be extra, so depending on where they go it might cost a few bucks)

Where are all the lab reports? Shouldn't she have something to show her supporters for all the money they have donated?

How much has gone towards her film and road-show? ( I heard that Twyla got $10,000 for the 'documentary') She sure travels a lot...

It almost seems like an enviro-ponzi scheme - Get enough to raise the fear level to a point where people will open their wallets enough to elevate the propaganda to a higher level with a film and then use the funds recieved to promote the film and raise more funds to do more promotion...

There are cynics on both sides of the fence.

 

[bigbruce]

Reading all this, I'm reminded of the words of an old Jim Croce song (with a slight alteration):

"you don't tug on Superman's cape,
you don't spit into the wind,
you don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger
and you don't mess around with Alex..."