Albion test fishery

[IronNoggin]

If you want to understand why Area G Troll is so angry you need to understand allocation and priority access of Chinook and coho.

Only part of the story there GLG. You understand how that developed, and that we "gave away" priority access in order to maintain the same over sockeye (which was then taken away from us by and large). It was simply another case of government switch and bait. Once we were onside, they took away what we were guaranteed for doing so.

There are other factors to consider.

At one time the overall fleet quota was large enough that most could and did make a comfortable living. That was shredded over the years, and now is so small no-one can make much more than a weekend's pocket change from being involved. Between that and sweeping area closures, the point is damn near moot.

To add insult to injury, we were yanked off the water this year due to "conservation concerns". That in the face of well detailed, decades worth of DNA and CWT data which clearly showed we had no impact on Fraser fish of any significance. Now, combine that with the fact we have not been able to fish through June for well over a decade, due to concerns that we might intercept a Fraser Chinook or two. Shortly after we were forced out, the government announced an opening for the newly established Five Nations Fishery, in the exact waters we were removed from, that ran from late May right through to June 25th. There is no other interpretation than the government LIED directly to us regarding "conservation", and that all of a sudden there was no longer any chance this newly formed race-based fishery would intercept any Fraser Chinook through June.

Editing to clarify: The Five Nations Fishery I note was NOT a FSC fishery. It is a full blown commercial operation, prosecuted by standard sized trollers largely purchased by the government and handed over to the various bands. They were not restricted to Chinook, but were instead granted all of the harvest rights to species once covered by our Area Licenses: all salmon, lings, halibut, rockfish, prawns and anything else that swims. Species that had all been taken away from us except Chinook over the years.

Absurd? You betcha. Unfair? Yeah, pretty much.
Obvious lying by the government as they merrily go about reallocating the resource we used to make our living on.

There is more, quite a bit actually, but methinks most might begin to understand what we're a tad pissed off at this juncture.

As for the uninformed and ignorant rantings of the few that don't, I no longer care to engage with their foolishness whatsoever.
Carry on in your blind ignorance to reality. I no longer care a whit.

Nog

 

[saltcod]

saltcod - I consider your assumptions unfortunately simplistic and incorrect.

For most fisheries today - many commercial fishermen HAVE TO either buy (BIG $) or lease licences and quota for most fisheries - AS WELL AS commonly having 3rd party monitoring/validation (AGAIN big $) - even cameras and GPS for some fisheries. There are strict & limited by-catch quotas by subareas that also need to be leased and/or traded in order to cover-off overages. They have to hail in/out and don't get a hail number to legally catch & deliver unless it is all the quota and bycatch is covered-off.

To buy halibut quota (not licences) it is in the range of ~$95/lb (if you can find it), and to lease for 1 season (if you can find it) ~$6/lb - and one would need ~20,000lbs+ to make a trip. The licences are many 100s of thousands of $. Do the math. Archipelago fees are ~$10,000 a trip or thereabout. Those numbers doesn't even include fuel and the rest of the costs of keeping & maintaining a large boat - which are also in the tens to hundreds of thousands $ a year.

What are your Archipelago fees? Your camera/GPS costs? Your quota costs? Do you have to purchase bycatch quota? How many area licenses do you need to buy or lease in order to maintain your business/livelihood? What does your sportsfishing licence cost?

But you seem to make the statement that it's no big deal - that "commies" have just somehow all became endowed w "multiple licences" like magic somehow -and it's really no big deal to them that they can fish. As you can see there's no magic to the fact that some of them have been able to lease/purchase multiple licences - the ones that couldn't afford it are out of business permanently.

At one time every village up and down the coast had multiple fishing boats and an economy and a lifestyle/livelihood that depended on various fisheries. - maybe only 20-30 years ago. It's all gone now. The salmon gillnet and the Zn/rockfish fleet/fishery have been particularly hard hit.

That's why I consider your comments "Yes, its unfortunate you guys can't fish, but unless you have no other licences, you're in a better position than most of the charter operators" particularly lacking depth and understanding.​

I never said that Commercial Fishers have all just somehow all became endowed with multiple licences. Those are your words. They have had to buy them, paying them off through hard work. Much like businessmen in other industries have to. What are my Archipelago fees, well zero, what are your business property taxes? Mine are $21,000. How much do you pay for Hydro in your business? mine $15000. So depending on what business you're in, there's always expenses.

 

[agentaqua]

Thanks for the reply, saltcod.

I did use the "magic" part as exaggeration - yes my words not yours.

The point that I was trying to make is that your brief dismissal of the costs and restrictions to commercial fishing are costs and restrictions you do not have - your assertion that the commercial fishermen (with assumed multiple licences) were in "better position than most of the charter operators." (your words) was unfortunately simplistic and incorrect.

 

[terrin]

Also, here's the historical data for WCVCI. Note that the sport Y-axis only runs from 0-70,000 pieces while the troll axis runs to 500,000. Even in the worst years for the troll fishery and the best years for the sport fishery, I don't really see the sports taking "exponential numbers" more chinook. Am I missing something in the data?
View attachment 46045 View attachment 46046

Sure sticks out to me how those numbers dropped like a rock in the early 90's just when the Fish Farms showed up and never bounced back.

 

[saltcod]

Sure sticks out to me how those numbers dropped like a rock in the early 90's just when the Fish Farms showed up and never bounced back.

Never mind the salmon numbers, look at the Steelhead numbers since the salmon farms came to the west coast V.I. 20 years ago, the Gold was the top producer of Steelhead north of the Stamp, and a wild only river. Sadly, since a bunch of net pens moved into Muchalat inlet, there are hardly any of them left, and many of the few surviving are picked off by pinnepeds. There were seals observed this year 13km up the gold in the winter. Nothing to eat in the river but Steelhead at that time of year...

 

[Fishmyster]

Never mind the salmon numbers, look at the Steelhead numbers since the salmon farms came to the west coast V.I. 20 years ago, the Gold was the top producer of Steelhead north of the Stamp, and a wild only river. Sadly, since a bunch of net pens moved into Muchalat inlet, there are hardly any of them left, and many of the few surviving are picked off by pinnepeds. There were seals observed this year 13km up the gold in the winter. Nothing to eat in the river but Steelhead at that time of year...

Although it is popular belief ff's and seals are major contributors to the demise of coastal steelhead populations there is evidence in the real world that something far greater is at play. The Heber river has been having good returns of summer run fish, 260 counted last year, in comparison to the Gold >5. Although the Gold has far greater available habitat the tiny Heber river is way out producing it. These SH have to migrate passed the same seals and fish farms to live in the same ocean but the smaller stream is the one which is still got reasonable SH returns. I have done invertebrate sampling on many V.I. streams including the ones you mention. There is a prefect match in fresh water food supply being supporting ecology to the returning adults in the depressed and successful streams. The SH streams you mention with now collapsed returns also have collapsed ecology.

Here is concrete evidence of the real issues wrt fresh water ecology and not just words on paper or the net. Have a look at the videos and compare for yourself.

There is ample proof of bad water quality and collapsed ecology all over B.C. streams including the upper Fraser river but we are in a world where bottom up science has long been ignored.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Very interesting stuff. There needs to be more research on this. Do you have any other data/evidence that supports your findings from other researchers and other rivers? When it comes to bottom up science the more supporting data the better.

 

[saltcod]

Although it is popular belief ff's and seals are major contributors to the demise of coastal steelhead populations there is evidence in the real world that something far greater is at play. The Heber river has been having good returns of summer run fish, 260 counted last year, in comparison to the Gold >5. Although the Gold has far greater available habitat the tiny Heber river is way out producing it. These SH have to migrate passed the same seals and fish farms to live in the same ocean but the smaller stream is the one which is still got reasonable SH returns. I have done invertebrate sampling on many V.I. streams including the ones you mention. There is a prefect match in fresh water food supply being supporting ecology to the returning adults in the depressed and successful streams. The SH streams you mention with now collapsed returns also have collapsed ecology.

Here is concrete evidence of the real issues wrt fresh water ecology and not just words on paper or the net. Have a look at the videos and compare for yourself.

There is ample proof of bad water quality and collapsed ecology all over B.C. streams including the upper Fraser river but we are in a world where bottom up science has long been ignored.

Pretty stark comparison of insect life within only a few km between the two locations.
One thing you don't mention is that the Summer Run Gold River fish seem to be fairing better than the winter run fish, or at least that is what was said at the meeting in Campbell River this winter. Is the comparison of 260 to <5 between the two rivers and winter vs. summer? Or were there <5 summer run Gold River Steelhead? Is the habitat in better shape in the upper Gold, above the Muchalat confluence? Do the summer run juveniles rear further up river? Could in-migration timing be playing a factor?

 

[Fishmyster]

Pretty stark comparison of insect life within only a few km between the two locations.
One thing you don't mention is that the Summer Run Gold River fish seem to be fairing better than the winter run fish, or at least that is what was said at the meeting in Campbell River this winter. Is the comparison of 260 to <5 between the two rivers and winter vs. summer? Or were there <5 summer run Gold River Steelhead? Is the habitat in better shape in the upper Gold, above the Muchalat confluence? Do the summer run juveniles rear further up river? Could in-migration timing be playing a factor?

I believe it was 60 or so summers in the upper Gold. I was At the meeting in Campbell river. There is a video of the upper Gold where I did sample too. It had a few more invertebrates than the lower Gold but nothing like Heber. If you go to youtube on my channel there are more videos. The Muchalat obviously has some bad chemistry issue too!

Summer runs can get to areas farther up the river, "like Heber", than winters to where ecology is much better. The habitat in the Gold river at town is greater and structurally better than any of the other stream areas but the chemistry has caused it to be an ecological dead zone. I guess timing in migration could be a factor but I have never seen any credible information to indicate that, just speculation. The invertebrates populations in the field do not lie and are the important supporting ecology for freshwater productivity. All these collapsed steelhead populations are the ones from streams with missing insects too!!

 

[Fishmyster]

Very interesting stuff. There needs to be more research on this. Do you have any other data/evidence that supports your findings from other researchers and other rivers? When it comes to bottom up science the more supporting data the better.

I have lots of other reports and data indicating that the acid rain has disrupted ecology all over the coast but it is all too large of files to load on SFBC. I personally watched it all happen over the years but since the early 1990's when there was a war on science DFO, MOE and any other groups seem to have turned a blind eye. It's hard to find others research on bottom up local stream ecology when nobody local has done any for many years. Evidence of the destructive chemistry is still everywhere in the field if anyone cares to look for it. Thankfully for now the rain pH is staying reasonable high 5.5pH yesterday.

 

[saltcod]

super thread drift on this one, maybe a moderator can shunt the Steelhead portion over to another thread?

 

[Fishmyster]

super thread drift on this one, maybe a moderator can shunt the Steelhead portion over to another thread?

Sure sticks out to me how those numbers dropped like a rock in the early 90's just when the Fish Farms showed up and never bounced back.

I think this is where the original drift off topic started.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Jennifer Naner, director of salmon management for the Fisheries Department, said while chinook numbers have been better than in the last two years they are lower than historic figures.

 

[Whitebuck]

The Fraser is a **** trickle for this time of year. The best netting conditions in a long time. Of course the Albion is getting fish.

DFO and all these puppets have no clue what's going.

If we had these water conditions back when historical figures were taken there would have been triple the amount of fish caught back then if not more.