Gear'n'beer!
Well-Known Member
nicely done english
'nuff said!
'nuff said!
alex morton
- Thread starter reelfast
- Start date
so birdsnest, you are arguing that pesticides are not used to control sea lice???? can you provide a link for me indicating just how sea lice are being controlled in the net pens? and please, it is obvious that sea ice and net pens go hand in hand. the question is how is this addressed by the industry.
CK, I must assume you are a charter member of the flat earth society. no words, no links are ample demonstration that engaging you in any discussion is a total waste of key strokes. you have contributed nothing of substance to this discussion, only your opinion which in any science circle is worthless.
CK, I must assume you are a charter member of the flat earth society. no words, no links are ample demonstration that engaging you in any discussion is a total waste of key strokes. you have contributed nothing of substance to this discussion, only your opinion which in any science circle is worthless.
Big Green Machine
Well-Known Member
I appreciate hearing both sides of this, especially since it is civil debate. Good on you all for allowing this to happen. However, there are some topics that are impossible to debate on a forum, this would be one of them. You read great posts by Charlie et al an some good ones by CK et al too. What's hard to take are those posts in between by those who have no business even entering the debate, not equipped in the cognitive domain really.
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
Well done English.
You could have just called me an infidel and been done with it - but you went the distance.
Just for kicks, here's a few links (about sea lice, which Morton was included in the research of - nothing to do with viruses, which she just likes to speculate about):
http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sealice_2011_ices_morton.pdf
(The best part, Morton's own- "The survival of the pink salmon cohort was not stat- istically different from a reference region without salmon farms.")
http://salmonfarmscience.files.word...2008_sea_lice_extinction_hypothesis_fails.pdf
(Extinction hypothesis fails...)
http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sealice_2010_marty_saksida.pdf
http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sealice_2009_large_natural_infection.pdf
http://salmonfarmscience.files.word...008_comment_on_declining_wild_populations.pdf
If you can get past the fact (take the blinders off) that these are hosted on the "Salmon Farm Science" blog - they are worth a read.
You could have just called me an infidel and been done with it - but you went the distance.
Just for kicks, here's a few links (about sea lice, which Morton was included in the research of - nothing to do with viruses, which she just likes to speculate about):
http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sealice_2011_ices_morton.pdf
(The best part, Morton's own- "The survival of the pink salmon cohort was not stat- istically different from a reference region without salmon farms.")
http://salmonfarmscience.files.word...2008_sea_lice_extinction_hypothesis_fails.pdf
(Extinction hypothesis fails...)
http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sealice_2010_marty_saksida.pdf
http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sealice_2009_large_natural_infection.pdf
http://salmonfarmscience.files.word...008_comment_on_declining_wild_populations.pdf
If you can get past the fact (take the blinders off) that these are hosted on the "Salmon Farm Science" blog - they are worth a read.
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Englishman
Well-Known Member
Birdsnest, you are totally confusing lay person knowledge, opinion and science. Your analogy about the dentist is laughable. The fact you know more than the guy "getting the drill" is irrelevant and does NOT qualify you to comment on medical dentistry. By the same token working on a salmon feed lot does NOT qualify you to comment on scientific papers in ecology, marine biology, or environmental interactions.
You are confusing the links to organisations with the DONATE button with the links to the actual scientific publications. They are two entirely different things and you are clearly not reading the science papers because you can't!
You also do not understand the terms of reference of the Cohen Commission. It did not review "all research ever done and submitted". It did not review the fish feed lot literature and findings form the entire world. It was only about the Fraser Sockeye run levels. Period.
By this and your previous posts it is clear you only give opinion and not scientific facts. Therefore your comments about the scientific work of hundreds of scientists from all over the world have no merit.
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
No, no link. It is basic knowledge that where there are areas that have low salinity available to a fish population sea lice populations are pretty much ZERO. This situation certainly does exist on in a number of salmon farms in bc. I am confident that charlie and englishman will agree with me on this but in a public forum? Not so sure. We'll see. Naturally, in these circumstances treatments for lice are not necessary.
Seafever
Well-Known Member
I happened to have a friend who ran a fish farm in San Mateo bay by Barkley Sound in the early seventies. He was also into scuba-diving like our group. That was the first time I set foot on a fishfarm. There were a lot of times after that. So I got to see what was going on at an earlydays fishfarm.
At that time they were just coming in. None of this information was bandied around back then.....because problems didn't appear to have come up yet.
Alex Morton is not infallible. Neither is anyone else. If she made a mistake or two....so what.
Everybody makes mistakes now and then. Jesus made mistakes...God made mistakes ( he allowed the Dodge Dakota to be invented so I rest my case...)
Einstein made mistakes.......
No-one is an unassailable paragon of perfection............that said, like others have pointed out...she is not working alone
and is backed in her findings in many instances by peers who have more knowledge than she does.
At that time they were just coming in. None of this information was bandied around back then.....because problems didn't appear to have come up yet.
Alex Morton is not infallible. Neither is anyone else. If she made a mistake or two....so what.
Everybody makes mistakes now and then. Jesus made mistakes...God made mistakes ( he allowed the Dodge Dakota to be invented so I rest my case...)
Einstein made mistakes.......
No-one is an unassailable paragon of perfection............that said, like others have pointed out...she is not working alone
and is backed in her findings in many instances by peers who have more knowledge than she does.
jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
Nice of you to point out people that don't have the cognitive domain to interact on a public forum biggreenmachine. We are discussing a topic that affects us all on a PUBLIC website where a fishing enthusiast can relate, learn, and Discuss a very serious matters pertaining to everyone who lives on this great coast and cares about the sustainability and enhancement of wild salmon. if your trying to call somebody without stating their name that's pretty pathetic, most of us on here have not stated anything that we would not say to the person in public and don't need to beat around the bush. Act like you own a pair!
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
Ah, now that looks familiar: http://uuathluk.ca/Microsoft Word - CSSWG sea lice report.doc.pdf
"The predominant species of fish captured and analyzed between 2004 and 2007 was chum (Oncorhynchus keta) (n=5509). Additionally, 676 chinook salmon (O. tshawytscha), 121 coho salmon (O. kisutch), 31 Sockeye (O. nerka) and 121 three- spine stickleback (Gasterosteus aculeatus) were sampled.
• Analyses of these data reveal a prevalence of infection on chum between 7% and 20%, and chinook between 1% and 15%. This analysis combines findings of L. salmonis and C. clemensi.
• The chum sampled include sizes similar to those described by Jones et al. (2008) in pink salmon as being at elevated risk of sea lice infection.
• With the exception of Shelter Inlet, no statistically significant changes in prevalence, abundance or density between inlets were observed:
␣ Seaward sites had significantly higher prevalence of infection that mirrored local salinity conditions.
• No statistically significant change in temperature between the different sample sites or inlets was observed.
• Salinity varied significantly at different sites and inlets: ␣ Herbert Inlet and Tofino Inlet had lower salinities than Bedwell Sound,
Fortune Channel and Shelter Inlet.
• Prevalence and abundance of sea lice infection on chum salmon showed a stepwise increase with increasing salinity.
␣ Salinities between 20 and 30‰ (parts per thousand) are known to be an important factor in sea lice survival.
␣ Mean salinities of all sample sites ranged between 5.72‰ and 27‰. ␣ Optimum sea lice survival has been shown to be at a salinity of 30‰ by
Johnson and Albright (1991).
• It appears that salinity is a more important factor in the distribution of sea lice in the inlets in Clayoquot Sound than the location of the sample sites."
I've been out there sampling for the last 3 years and the situation hasn't changed much.
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Charlie
Well-Known Member
Actually, Birdsnest I will agree that salinity content, sea lice survival, and having to treat sea lice all go hand-in-hand. Case in point due to lower salinity level, our fish lots have fewer problems than most in BC. However, I am quite sure there are “some” in BC located in an estuary (the wide lower course of a river where the tide flows in, causing fresh and salt water to mix), will have less, little, to no problems with sea lice than the MANY others.
I am sure it was not an intentional deflection; however, overall with the exception of very few feed lots BC has a very large problem with sea lice, which believed is the question asked. How much pesticides (SLICE) is being used to control sea lice in net pens seems to be the question:
Let me help you out…
The BC provincial government has set protocols for monitoring sea lice levels on salmon feedlots. They are required to monitor sea lice levels a minimum of once a month and report the findings to the Ministry of Agriculture and Lands. When the average lice levels reach three motile lice (mature lice) per fish, fish must be checked twice a month, but nothing is really required to be done. Now, if lice levels reach three motiles during the juvenile wild salmon out-migration period (March to July), then one of two actions is “usually” taken to reduce lice production on the feedlot: harvesting or treatment with SLICE (emamectin benzoate), which is a very nasty toxin.
They won’t harvest the fish, unless it has already been scheduled, so they use the very nasty toxin called SLICE. In BC that is generally done through applying medicated feed coated with SLICE. The recommended dosage of that nasty toxin called emamectin benzoate is 50 μg/kg of fish biomass per day and treatments last for 7 days. It is very difficult to predict the efficacy of SLICE against sea lice on farmed salmon. Factors such as water temperature affect the rate of drug clearance from the skin and muscle and fish size, maturity, health and condition influence.
The minimum withdrawal time of 68 days is set by Health Canada after administering SLICE, which is based on allowable levels of the drug in harvested fish tissue. Health Canada has NEVER done any studies – at all on SLICE.
Keep in mind:
1) There hasn’t been any studies that even confirm the 3 motile lice/fish trigger for the application of SLICE is good enough to protect wild out-migrating salmon stocks.
2) Each gravid female louse can produce at least 250 eggs, during a reproductive cycle.
3) A conservative estimate suggests that before the 3 motile lice/fish trigger is reached, before SLICE is applied each farmed salmon may be producing more than 100 planktonic lice at each farm at any given time (based on egg to plankton survival rate of 0.26818).
4) Each salmon feedlot is usually stocked with over a ½ million fish producing hundreds of millions of lice during the time when juvenile salmon are migrating to sea.
5) Sea lice can survive “up to seven days” in fresh water and during that time, they still can be infecting and spreading all those Norwegian diseases.
Big Green Machine
Well-Known Member
I'm including myself, I am not qualified to enter the debate at this point because I have not done the research like the others I mentioned. If I do, it's merely cheerleading.
Aces
Well-Known Member
Seafever
Well-Known Member
Birdsnest:--- in your post #115 you show a link.
I clicked it on and read it.
"1826" refers to a number they post at the top left of each page......there is a number of pages with 1800-series numbers.....
not sure if they are page numbers ...but they are sequential......
I clicked it on and read it.
"1826" refers to a number they post at the top left of each page......there is a number of pages with 1800-series numbers.....
not sure if they are page numbers ...but they are sequential......
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