Halibut: Bad News

[GLG]

Interesting analysis Charlie. I would be interested in knowing if those size changes correlate with the commercial fishing of halibut food supply fish such as herring and pilchards.

I doubt anyone at DFO is doing that kind of analysis; nor do I suspect we will see it as our current Federal Government is about to engage in massive budget cuts and does not seem to like science and analysis where it gets in the way of commercial exploitation and profit.

We are definitely moving away from evidence based decision making here.

Give this a read
http://nwcoastenergynews.com/2012/01/16/946/collapse-bc-oil-economy-lesson-bc-alberta-world/

Thanks Charlie for that link you posted as this website has a ton of info in a well written form.
For others looking for something to read may I suggest going to this website it read current concerns to "we that go to the ocean to fish". GLG
http://nwcoastenergynews.com

 

[Cuba Libre]

The DFO runs on the Peter principle. This is where people are promoted fast until they reach a job they cannot do and that is where they stay. That should explain their amazing stupidity.

Welll, after a 31 year career in DFO and its various reincarnations, I have to ask you to reconsider that blanket statement. There are MANY guys and gals in DFO that signed on because of a real wish to do well by the resource. But the continuing political interference and butt covering by some mid and upper level bureaucrats has made for a demoralized department . The politicization of DFO ,where the media spin doctors began screening what the civil servants and scientists said to the public, began under Mulroney . It obviously continues to this day, with new lows in press control and screening coming from Harper's sycophants . Just think of the demoralizing effect this has had.

The continuing budget cuts have been another hammer blow-- even if some of the DFO staff wanted to do a good job-- how can they do it if they dont have a budget that will allow them to leave the office???? The hatchery staff are watching the hatchery infrastructure melt around them, but all they get told is "Do more with less". The Enforcement guys are told who to charge and who to leave alone. When was the last time you heard of a Native being charged for ANYTHING????? Cant do that-- must keep the peace at any cost ses Ottawa.

There are lots more examples--- Look at the ISA bs--- Its the senior managers that are lying to save face for the Harper government--- did you know that the quickest way to get fired in the Civil Service is to "Embarrass the Minister" I know that for a fact as I was threatened with dismissal for writing to Ernie Fedoruk in the TC newspaper AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN to tell him he was wrong to buy into the spin that DFO Habitat had a "no net loss" habitat policy . I told him the truth-- Its a SLOW NET LOSS of fish habitat the way DFO works. Otto Langer , retired early Habitat Chief , got so disgusted with the the direction from Ottawa that ignored even their own DFO policy that he quit and joined The Suzuki Foundation. He was eventually given the Conservationist of the Year by the BCWF for his later work for trying to make people aware of the horrible mess that fish habitat was in.

He is not the only example of someone in DFO, past and present, that the system and Ottawa pissed all over for trying to do the right thing.

So next time you might want to use the full choke barrel, rather than the cylinder barrel, when taking aim at a whole department.

 

[traveller]

The current thinking by IPHC staff scientist presented at the last two Commission hearings is that they suspect the chief factor in reduced size at age is the exploding population of arrow tooth flounder which compete for the same food supply.

 

[Gunsmith]

You are right I do apologize for that. But the gist is aimed at the idiots who are at the top and prevent the qualified from moving up. I will use a rifle instead.

Welll, after a 31 year career in DFO and its various reincarnations, I have to ask you to reconsider that blanket statement. There are MANY guys and gals in DFO that signed on because of a real wish to do well by the resource. But the continuing political interference and butt covering by some mid and upper level bureaucrats has made for a demoralized department . The politicization of DFO ,where the media spin doctors began screening what the civil servants and scientists said to the public, began under Mulroney . It obviously continues to this day, with new lows in press control and screening coming from Harper's sycophants . Just think of the demoralizing effect this has had.

The continuing budget cuts have been another hammer blow-- even if some of the DFO staff wanted to do a good job-- how can they do it if they dont have a budget that will allow them to leave the office???? The hatchery staff are watching the hatchery infrastructure melt around them, but all they get told is "Do more with less". The Enforcement guys are told who to charge and who to leave alone. When was the last time you heard of a Native being charged for ANYTHING????? Cant do that-- must keep the peace at any cost ses Ottawa.

There are lots more examples--- Look at the ISA bs--- Its the senior managers that are lying to save face for the Harper government--- did you know that the quickest way to get fired in the Civil Service is to "Embarrass the Minister" I know that for a fact as I was threatened with dismissal for writing to Ernie Fedoruk in the TC newspaper AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN to tell him he was wrong to buy into the spin that DFO Habitat had a "no net loss" habitat policy . I told him the truth-- Its a SLOW NET LOSS of fish habitat the way DFO works. Otto Langer , retired early Habitat Chief , got so disgusted with the the direction from Ottawa that ignored even their own DFO policy that he quit and joined The Suzuki Foundation. He was eventually given the Conservationist of the Year by the BCWF for his later work for trying to make people aware of the horrible mess that fish habitat was in.

He is not the only example of someone in DFO, past and present, that the system and Ottawa pissed all over for trying to do the right thing.

So next time you might want to use the full choke barrel, rather than the cylinder barrel, when taking aim at a whole department.

 

[searun]

Well said CL. We (including me) often times characterize Fisheries staff inappropriately by using generalized statements. There are a great many very good and well meaning folks there. That said, as a general rule most of what we are talking about on the forum is the policy decision making and processes used and not the individuals working at DFO and MELP or whatever they now call themselves today.

Good analysis Charlie. The more recent data (only have a paper copy so can't share) is similar. The problem is the slow growth rate and resultant shrinking biomas in a system managed by counting fish by pounds available for harvest. Appears to be a large number of younger age class fish coming up which should push the total biomas higher in a few years. Some of the issues we face today will be largely different once that occurs.

Good time for us to step back and look at a multi pronged approach to solving our issues as was suggested by Holmes.

 

[lorneparker1]

An im sorry would be a great place to start.

Lorne

 

[Theb55]

I was speaking to an older lady today. She used to kayak in around Saanich inlet. Sometimes she would drag a fishing line behind the boat. About 20 some years ago she made a trip to Brentwood Bay. When she went to retrieve her line she discovered a 20 lb. halibut had swallowed the lure and was just swimming along with the kayak. In Saanich Inlet no less!

 

[Pursuit 648]

agree searun 100%

 

[reelfast]

you dont quit or you wouldnt still be here, so lets move on and get down to business...lets come up with a plan once and for all, a plan that involves a multi-faceted approach and a united front...holmes*

i think charlie already gave you the only 'plan' that has any chance of working, litigation.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Robert, you were Ding Dong! You know that I had come into the store about a couple years ago now, we met for the first time and we had a brief discussion about the Halibut issue, and at that time I had flash idea that could Rob be Ding Dong!???, Naah, he couldn't be. Haha on me, you were.

Hey man you do have a wealth of information, and you are right on soooo many levels. The more that I look at this whole goddamned fu@%ing **** pile that we are being forced to accept year after year, you have nailed it on the head with Legal Action. You and Charlie are among the first few on here that have stated this over and over and over and OVER! The excuses that keep coming up are; where will we get the money, how do we fight them, what result will we get from a court decision? Fact is we will never know if we don't do something about it, and we will always have what we have now (or less). If there are 300,000 saltwater anglers in BC each year, say that half of them can donate some money to a legal fees fund. We all spend thousands of dollars each year on fishing, how hard would it be for everyone (on average) to donate $100.00???? that equates to $15,000,000.00 to fight a fight that I have heard on this board would cost 200,000-300,000 dollars (and how would we ever come up with that type of cash?). $15,000,000.00 with at donation of $100 each, I am in for sure. The guides that make a living from this should be able to come up with a lot more than the $100.00 each. We could do this each and every year of the fight. I am sure that there are some high profile law firms out there that have passionate fisherman in them. I can go on and on, point is that we CAN do it, we just have to put one foot in front of the other.

Cheers,


And Rob don't you Fu@%ing give up ever man! United we stand!

Fish Hunter.

 

[Clipper]

OK, so I think we know the 'WHAT' - litigation to stop the federal government, through DFO to stop giving our public resources to private individuals or corporations.

What I can not get my head around is the 'HOW' - the process or method to do this. I have no idea how to go about launching a court case or challenge but I am certainly willing to kick some $$$ in to get this going.

If gumpucky or ding dong or whatever he wants to call himself would stop pouting and actually give us some solid, non-cryptic information on how to move this forward, I would be all ears.

 

[Derby]

the cost would be more around 1 to 1.5 million dollars...

 

[Cuba Libre]

the cost would be more around 1 to 1.5 million dollars...

yup.............

 

[lorneparker1]

40,000 hali anglers. $10 per hali stamp.
3 years to garnish the money if your numbers are correct( I have no clue)
And fish hunter, the guides speaking on this forum from a certain group(not all) dont want litigation. They dont want accountablity. They dont want anything that makes sense. Thats obvious!


We could do nothing. We can ***** on internet forums. Come up with every excuse in the book what we cant whether its money, or time or what every ******** we can convince our self of. Have a group of guides speak for us, who after making the biggest F up in Halibut history this year didnt even consult us, who did it all for them, and who didnt even acknowldge that they didnt consult us or that there thought process was short minded. Then after all of this didnt offer an apology, and bascially just ignored us. Same as before the decision.

Again, what we need is every fricking sportfisherman in at these SFAC meetings. Then we need to DEMAND we are in the "working groups".So that we dont EVER get the wool pulled over eyes again. And if that doesnt work. We go on our own. I am so sick of this ********. Its time to make **** happen.

Lorne

 

[Fish-Hunter]

the cost would be more around 1 to 1.5 million dollars...

So if 150,000 of us donate $100,00 each to a legal fund we would have $15,000,000.00 that would be enough to continue the legal fight for TEN years, all from one year of donations.

 

[Derby]

Trust me this has been looked at ...very very complicated and a expense process.... not to say its not a option....

 

[Derby]

40,000 hali anglers. $10 per hali stamp.
3 years to garnish the money if your numbers are correct( I have no clue)
And fish hunter, the guides speaking on this forum from a certain group(not all) dont want litigation. They dont want accountablity. They dont want anything that makes sense. Thats obvious!


We could do nothing. We can ***** on internet forums. Come up with every excuse in the book what we cant whether its money, or time or what every ******** we can convince our self of. Have a group of guides speak for us, who after making the biggest F up in Halibut history this year didnt even consult us, who did it all for them, and who didnt even acknowldge that they didnt consult us or that there thought process was short minded. Then after all of this didnt offer an apology, and bascially just ignored us. Same as before the decision.

Again, what we need is every fricking sportfisherman in at these SFAC meetings. Then we need to DEMAND we are in the "working groups".So that we dont EVER get the wool pulled over eyes again. And if that doesnt work. We go on our own. I am so sick of this ********. Its time to make **** happen.

Lorne

Okay???....

 

[Fish-Hunter]

40,000 hali anglers. $10 per hali stamp.
3 years to garnish the money if your numbers are correct( I have no clue)
And fish hunter, the guides speaking on this forum from a certain group(not all) dont want litigation. They dont want accountablity. They dont want anything that makes sense. Thats obvious!


We could do nothing. We can ***** on internet forums. Come up with every excuse in the book what we cant whether its money, or time or what every ******** we can convince our self of. Have a group of guides speak for us, who after making the biggest F up in Halibut history this year didnt even consult us, who did it all for them, and who didnt even acknowldge that they didnt consult us or that there thought process was short minded. Then after all of this didnt offer an apology, and bascially just ignored us. Same as before the decision.

Again, what we need is every fricking sportfisherman in at these SFAC meetings. Then we need to DEMAND we are in the "working groups".So that we dont EVER get the wool pulled over eyes again. And if that doesnt work. We go on our own. I am so sick of this ********. Its time to make **** happen.

Lorne

Lorne, I hope that you are wrong about some of the guides, but,,,,, given the lastest set of events I fear that you may be right.

The Halibut stamp we definately need now! This I am getting tired of saying, but it has to happen TODAY!

Yes we all need to start attending meetings to get our voice heard and to know what is going on as it happens, and then we will know why it happens. This will be difficult for lots of us, for me it will be very difficult, but I am going to try. I know some guys that have already made the commitment to attend meetings and they are definately becoming more enlightened and feel better for contributing.

FH

 

[lorneparker1]

We need to make time. Not all of us can work 4 months of the year making money hand over fist off the resource then claim poverty, the. Spend the other 8 in meetings making sure there lifestyle is looked after. I get that. But if we don't we can continue to get bent over and ***** on the Internet why things didn't go our way.

 

[island idiots]

If a legal battle is what is required why not creat a society under the society act, and raise funds for the " Recreational Halibut Fisherman's Defense Fund"? Maybe local sporting good stores would promote such a thing.
There might be a lawyer who likes to fish for Halibut, and would take this huge project on. To succeed I think we really need someone to champion our cause, and is not just interested in lining their pockets.

One observation I have is that the more on board in an effort like this, the better. That may mean having an understanding about what the actual legal action would accomplish. By that I mean, if the action will benefit all of the recreational sector, ( guides included ), we would have a better chance at success because we would have more folks promoting it. Stores would be more eager to promote such a thing to raise funds if it supported all of thier customers not just joe weekend warrior, although that would have to be the focus of such an effort.
In my view if Guides were included and would benefit from such a lawsuit to claim ownership of Canada's TAC for citizens first. we would have a much better chance of success as they would be promoting the Fund in their work.

Just my 2 cents. I might be out to lunch on this.