Now the Gold is gone...
- Thread starter Cuba Libre
- Start date
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Time to get it moved to SARA for a listing.
Too little too late.....once the watershed was butchered and clear cut from town all the way up Upana, muchulat and the gold headwaters this system was doomed.
Spent 3/4 weeks at least over a season for a lot of years. Seeing the numbers dropped as soon as the headwaters were logged. Pretty ******...
Bunch of other island flows should be closed as well!
Spent 3/4 weeks at least over a season for a lot of years. Seeing the numbers dropped as soon as the headwaters were logged. Pretty ******...
Bunch of other island flows should be closed as well!
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The gold still gets good salmon returns. Sockeye, springs, coho and chum. If you walk the river in the summer and fall you will see them in most pools. Much more impressive than other wild rivers on the island. Habitat, at least in the open section seems excellent to me. There are other rivers on the island that are so filled in its a wonder anything comes back and they still have a better winter run than the gold. Dont think its habitat. I heard mention of seals at the lake pool on the lower river.
Islander57
Well-Known Member
Hopefully not a sign of more closures to come on other estuaries. Haven't fished the Gold since the earl 2000's, but was definitely a favorite.
Slabbedout
Well-Known Member
I chased steelhead ALOT and I would recommend this river anyone looking to get # s or there first steelie. I started fishing it in the late 80’s and it has declined 90% or more in the last 20 years for a multitude of reasons but logging the headwaters was evidently what has caused a decline / closure.
It sad but true. Steelhead are going extinct and we are the cause ( the human race )
I have slowly phased out fishing steelies on rivers without hatchery support since I feel any impact on wild stocks was detrimental but I know lots are looking to catch large / or wild fish. I have always known / felt a 10lb hatchery fish was huge so I targeted areas that had larger / wild fish but always felt bad about any fish I caught that looked like it did not swim perfectly away.
Bottom line is steelhead are a dying breed I really feel the economic impact vs the damage done on some rivers for fishing is plain retarded and they should be closed from mid nov until the spring to conserve winter steelhead. Not that long ago, a drift of most steelhead streams / rivers would show steelies in the flows almost year round now the summers are near gone and the larger winter runs are deminished near too.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
I am looking for someone to help me with field sampling for stream invertebrates in Gold and Heber rivers. Does anyone out there have the time to put their boots on the ground for a day? I have the transportation and gas just need someone to hold the camera and witness. Tomorrow would be good for me. I assure you the expedition will enlighten your perspective of why the winter run steelhead are so depressed. It will also give you insight for the future.
If tomorrow is too soon what would be a good day? It needs to be done during reasonable low flow.
If tomorrow is too soon what would be a good day? It needs to be done during reasonable low flow.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
I was at the Gold river meeting and Mike had swam the Megin rive to find no steelhead there either. Megin used to hold many steelhead but doesn't now. It is unlogged!! How does this untouched stream not produce steelhead? You like to blame logging but un logged streams can have the same depressed populations. What science do you apply to justify your opinion? This question goes to all of you who think logging is the cause of the Gold winter run demise.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
There has to be someone out there who is willing to look for them selves into why there are no winters and yet there is a summer run return that has been equal or higher than historical numbers?? The answers are existing in the stream for anyone who has the integrity and drive to look rather than assume.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Yes they do rear in different areas. Only summer runs make it up the Heber to spawn. Winters spawn in the main stem. Unless the juvenile winters jump rapids higher than the winter adults can it would be safe to say Heber is rearing summer run juveniles and the winter juveniles rear in the main stem. Regardless of water chemistry invertebrate composition and abundance will tell a story of the past suitability of chemistry and fish productivity. This is what I am trying to get anyone to come and see for them selves rather than the typical desk top assessments. I am betting, just like the Stamp river winter run, Gold winter juveniles are rearing in parts of the stream where invertebrates are absent.
Please watch the videos and let me know what you think. China creek steelhead population is doing good and the Stamp winter run that rears in the sampled area has gone to almost nothing. There are feeder streams of the Stamp that are now producing lots of high water quality invertebrates but as soon as the creek waters meet the stamp all that life ceases to exist.
I am in belief that the Gold river main stem is going to have similar invertebrate samples to the Stamp and the upper Heber is going to have something much more closer to the samples of china creek. Are willing to come see for yourself that Gold main stem ecology has collapsed?
I am in belief that the Gold river main stem is going to have similar invertebrate samples to the Stamp and the upper Heber is going to have something much more closer to the samples of china creek. Are willing to come see for yourself that Gold main stem ecology has collapsed?
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Well Dave if I lived on the lower mainland I would be happy to come sample sites around that neighborhood with you.
Something I am delighted to share is the fact of building ecology in many streams. It is in the last three years that I have seen big improvements of high water quality invertebrates. Many streams like China have had few for over two decades and now the populations are rebounding nicely. Around here the smaller streams seem to be improving but the larger streams with lakes are not repopulating as fast or much at all. likely this is because of residual contamination caused from the past acidic rain events. Hopefully with time, as the now improved rain chemistry flushes the contamination out, these larger streams will respond in the same manner. I don't have all the answers as to exactly how chemistry has caused the mass die off of invertebrates. It is documented by Environment Canada that high levels of sulfate and other bad substances fell from the sky for decades. This explains to me why even remote and unlogged streams have suffered too. From my field experience the only scientific explanation for such changes is the changing water source that falls from the sky and how the soils and under laying geology treat the water to be suitable for ecology. In dry climate areas where surface waters are harder and precipitated heavy metals can accumulate acid rain would be more likely to have caused contaminating events from dissolved heavy metals that harm life. In coastal areas of softer surface waters it would be more likely that deficiencies of essential elements like calcium or magnesium being stripped from soils are causing deficiencies in streams. Many streams likely suffer both and some have unique water characteristics that lessen the impact of either. It is all very complex and that is what makes it so fascinating for me. Either way if the rain was always constant with chemical make up and pH there would never be such changes in stream aquatic ecology because once ecology was adapted to a streams chemistry make up there would not be any changes or need to adapt any more. The invertebrates will tell a story for those who care to read them.
So if there is anyone who cares to look a little deeper into the Gold river story rather than read what is popular belief on the net please let me know.
Something I am delighted to share is the fact of building ecology in many streams. It is in the last three years that I have seen big improvements of high water quality invertebrates. Many streams like China have had few for over two decades and now the populations are rebounding nicely. Around here the smaller streams seem to be improving but the larger streams with lakes are not repopulating as fast or much at all. likely this is because of residual contamination caused from the past acidic rain events. Hopefully with time, as the now improved rain chemistry flushes the contamination out, these larger streams will respond in the same manner. I don't have all the answers as to exactly how chemistry has caused the mass die off of invertebrates. It is documented by Environment Canada that high levels of sulfate and other bad substances fell from the sky for decades. This explains to me why even remote and unlogged streams have suffered too. From my field experience the only scientific explanation for such changes is the changing water source that falls from the sky and how the soils and under laying geology treat the water to be suitable for ecology. In dry climate areas where surface waters are harder and precipitated heavy metals can accumulate acid rain would be more likely to have caused contaminating events from dissolved heavy metals that harm life. In coastal areas of softer surface waters it would be more likely that deficiencies of essential elements like calcium or magnesium being stripped from soils are causing deficiencies in streams. Many streams likely suffer both and some have unique water characteristics that lessen the impact of either. It is all very complex and that is what makes it so fascinating for me. Either way if the rain was always constant with chemical make up and pH there would never be such changes in stream aquatic ecology because once ecology was adapted to a streams chemistry make up there would not be any changes or need to adapt any more. The invertebrates will tell a story for those who care to read them.
So if there is anyone who cares to look a little deeper into the Gold river story rather than read what is popular belief on the net please let me know.
saltydawg
Well-Known Member
Megan is not untouched. Tofino based outfitters have been fishing it out for years.
Kenny
Stamp winters/summers....sort of the same situation? Yes a hatchery river....but why has the summer runs been killer last few years and winters ****. Yes we all say the sockeye net interception plays a factor, what if it is something more?
Couple other north island flows where the same thing is happening as well.
To say that logging has no impact is silly, I hope that your thesis is true. Would be an awesome solution to a lot of problems if that was an answer. I’m on the island in a few weeks, will shoot you a text.
What were your results for the Thompson? Didn’t you also find that there was low insect life there?
Stamp winters/summers....sort of the same situation? Yes a hatchery river....but why has the summer runs been killer last few years and winters ****. Yes we all say the sockeye net interception plays a factor, what if it is something more?
Couple other north island flows where the same thing is happening as well.
To say that logging has no impact is silly, I hope that your thesis is true. Would be an awesome solution to a lot of problems if that was an answer. I’m on the island in a few weeks, will shoot you a text.
What were your results for the Thompson? Didn’t you also find that there was low insect life there?
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Oh I am sure it is something much more than nets. Logging obviously has some impact but nothing compared to acid rain. This island has been logged for a long time. If logging was so detrimental we never would have seen such good fishing in the 1980's in all the streams of logged valleys like the Gold.
Here is what I have for the Thompson riverhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26cE4EJJxQw&t=175s
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