Winter fishing yes/no
- Thread starter Stizzla
- Start date
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
A dozen in December? I dont know that seems pretty high and I doubt they are booked every day.
Data driven fisheries. Remember that is what we want. Would you like the same type of decision like last year when DFO closed Otter point down? We can't make decisions because your mad about charter businesses fishing in winter months. I see no data that says closing it is justified.
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Tailspin
Active Member
Well Look at That! Some more Dung flinging amounst each other...A reason i dont post on this site often. I believe I was one of the first members when this Forum started out...
I will take the bait on this one I have big shoulders. And for the Record many of us are working away from the Slaughter Pictures of limits of all Species.
4 ppl on a charter, 94 year old father who fished Sooke since the 40s, his 2 daughters, and 72 year old uncle on one of their last trips on the water as a family. So what would you Do??? Sorry sir you cant eat that legal bleeding fish dfo has allowed you to take if you choose.
Yes i agree on some of the Optics lining the dock with every thing we can possibly keep, rockfish, haly, crab, prawn, coonstripe Shrimp, however 2 fish each for 4 ppl kept were bleeders 55cm and up. “The legal Limit” So before you flip out lets just think about things for a second before getting to judgemental.
Through numerous DNA, samples, Head Recovery Submission, 99% come back US hatchery origion. Likly Lopez Isl Net Pen.
So let me ask this, Do we “All” now hide our catch and feel guilty for going Fishing in the Winter. Really?
Should we just be posting pics of the few of us who actually are involved in Volunteer Salmon Recovery Efforts when we are working on that asspect. No Sports Caught Fish!
Digital World we live in has its Evil and will need some adjustment as i see based on this response from the arm chair cynics.
I will take the bait on this one I have big shoulders. And for the Record many of us are working away from the Slaughter Pictures of limits of all Species.
4 ppl on a charter, 94 year old father who fished Sooke since the 40s, his 2 daughters, and 72 year old uncle on one of their last trips on the water as a family. So what would you Do??? Sorry sir you cant eat that legal bleeding fish dfo has allowed you to take if you choose.
Yes i agree on some of the Optics lining the dock with every thing we can possibly keep, rockfish, haly, crab, prawn, coonstripe Shrimp, however 2 fish each for 4 ppl kept were bleeders 55cm and up. “The legal Limit” So before you flip out lets just think about things for a second before getting to judgemental.
Through numerous DNA, samples, Head Recovery Submission, 99% come back US hatchery origion. Likly Lopez Isl Net Pen.
So let me ask this, Do we “All” now hide our catch and feel guilty for going Fishing in the Winter. Really?
Should we just be posting pics of the few of us who actually are involved in Volunteer Salmon Recovery Efforts when we are working on that asspect. No Sports Caught Fish!
Digital World we live in has its Evil and will need some adjustment as i see based on this response from the arm chair cynics.
Derby
Crew Member
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Agree that a publicly posted photos showing a legal limit for 4-6 guests, despite being perfectly legal, maybe isn't the best PR for rec sector. Tailspin mentions that many are moving away from that sort of photo and I think that in itself should be the focus - not criticizing those that want to keep legal mass marked hatchery Chin. These fish are mass marked for the very purpose of being retained for a table fish.
..... it has been confirmed unanimously by a team of international scientists including Dr. Trites that there are sufficient numbers of Chinook coming into and through Juan de Fuca to support SRKW's needs and that stopping rec fishing would do nothing to help the Orcas . So the stopping winter fishing there to provide for the SRKW doesn't look like it would work to do anything like what you think it might.
Yes we should be protecting those hatchery springs in the pic.....
Yep, hard not to roll the eyes on that one. But to answer fog's question, yes, I would say managing mass marked hatchery fish such that they are used for the very purpose they are intended would be acceptable management. Now if USA pushes to have us cut back on our consumption of 'their' mass marked hatchery fish off Victoria, I suppose there is a discussion there but that is not on topic to this thread.
With increasing cuts to limits, slots and closures to protect Fraser stock ( full closures for 4 months on the table/proposed for Chin. in 2019) , a continuing push to release all Tyee class, now even 20+ is in question ( re target size for SRKW food) , closures and limits due to SRKW and CH areas ........ and you want to now stop retention on a high quality winter mass marked hatchery US Chin. that are marked for the purpose of retention and sport catch/keep?
...opps, sorry my eyes just rolled again.....couldn't help it.
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There is an annual limit.. What is the problem? If you want to tag out on 5 pounders, then go for it. Personally, I think it is better to take the smaller fish, as the ones that are mature are that much more likely to spawn.
The smaller the fish the higher the mortality rates they will encounter. So for every 8 pound winter spring you take it is likely that 50% or more would not survive to a successful spawner in the river. Remember in the wild only 1-2% return to spawn. So given a choice should you kill 20 mature 15-30 pound fish a few days from reaching fresh water or 20 - 8 pound feeders of which 10 or more wouldn’t have reached the rivers?
Peahead
Well-Known Member
So do you have issue that guides are successful at getting several individuals their 2 legal fish in winter? .....or do these pictures bother you mainly because it looks like so many fish when several people put their fish together in one spot and the take the photo? I agree the photos you posted probably aren't best for rec sector PR but it is a legal catch on mostly US hatchery fish. I say if you have issue with it criticizing the guide here for doing his job legally and well is not going to be very productive way to change things. Gees we can't even curtail illegal activity and you want to go after those fishing legally for a stock that is created to keep?
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Exactly.
Derby
Crew Member
... it's fine when u said that were against a winter Chinook fishery in your area, which is your opinion..... at this point the Data allows this fishery to be open & there is some folks chose to enjoy it so , Let them do so... If you chose not to , that is your decision... ...
tigerprawn
Active Member
Well I don’t post a whole lot on here, but feel I need to weigh in on this. I would say that 95% of the winter spring fisheries are of US origin. This being the lower island area.This is based on clipped fish with no CWTs.
I personally would like to see a hatchery fish only. But our government needs to get a funded clipping crew and produce fin clipped fisheries. It will take 3 years before we can move in this direction. Providing we start now.
I have voiced my concerns about this, but it is all political I believe.
If everyone gets on board with a fin clip fisheries we all win.
I personally would like to see a hatchery fish only. But our government needs to get a funded clipping crew and produce fin clipped fisheries. It will take 3 years before we can move in this direction. Providing we start now.
I have voiced my concerns about this, but it is all political I believe.
If everyone gets on board with a fin clip fisheries we all win.
I'm with pro Fisher and last chance... everyone has a yearly legal limit. Why promote taking only the 2% of the stock that have survived all odds at sea and are returning to reproduce? Seems common sense that retaining winter salmon is far less harmful on the stocks than taking mature salmon that are on their way to spawn (this is assuming for every winter spring one keeps, one would be allowed to keep one less mature salmon)
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Fish that size have already beaten the odds, If they are not coming back it's because they have been caught or eaten by a whale or seal.
walleyes
Crew Member
I don't know man, I find it pretty sad when people can’t even post pictures of their perfectly legal catch up anymore, especially on a supposed fishing forum we have people berating them. By hiding your catch your not helping the cause you are simply helping the anti crowd, your showing that your ashamed of what you do and submitting to the thought it’s wrong and that my friends is bull crap. Not saying to load the dock up with meat but my goodness, a few small eaters for the table and we are to be ashamed of it, never !
tincan
Well-Known Member
Agree that anglers are losing the PR battle and those pics covering entire floats with salmon, hali, cod, etc really don't help. Even if there are within their legal limits it's just not a good look given the current political climate so I think it would do us all well by showing less of that.
As for your statement about little chinooks growing into Orca food (big chinooks) that it bit of a leap as not all little chinook do grow into big chinook even if they live a full, healthy life. The reason why the SRWK experts are saying this population could be doomed no matter what we do is because the SRKW rely on large (20lb +) chinook for the vast majority of their diets. Chinook this size used to be commonplace coastwide but as any of us who have been around long enough know, chinook size has decreased substantially over the past several decades. The 2 populations of fraser chinook that are significant for the SRKW are the Harrison and S. Thompson because of their relative size and abundance. There are many other populations of smaller chinook that just don't make the SRKW dinner plate, most likely due to their smaller size (harder to catch via echolocation). The easy solution would be to ask the whales to eat smaller chinook and other species but that just aint gonna happen in all likelihood. The major problem these whales have is that the other big chinook that they rely on throughout the year have essentially disappeared (winter run in sacramento; june run in columbia; etc).
Th size issue is also a reason why throwing up a bunch of new hatcheries isn't necessarily going to solve our SRKW issue. In order to do that, we'd need the hatcheries/enhancement pens that are strategically located so that run timing overlaps with SRKW migration and we'd also need those fish to be large in size. Many hatchery fish return as small adults that wouldn't be primary targets for SRKW. It's the larger chinook populations that would have to be enhanced to have meaningful benefits.
All that to say, go ahead a bonk a few small winter hatchery fish! They are tasty as hell and if it's the difference between eating a fresh 8lb hatchery chinook in February vs. thawing out a chunk of your 35lb harrison white you caught in August you can feel good about the winter spring.
As for your statement about little chinooks growing into Orca food (big chinooks) that it bit of a leap as not all little chinook do grow into big chinook even if they live a full, healthy life. The reason why the SRWK experts are saying this population could be doomed no matter what we do is because the SRKW rely on large (20lb +) chinook for the vast majority of their diets. Chinook this size used to be commonplace coastwide but as any of us who have been around long enough know, chinook size has decreased substantially over the past several decades. The 2 populations of fraser chinook that are significant for the SRKW are the Harrison and S. Thompson because of their relative size and abundance. There are many other populations of smaller chinook that just don't make the SRKW dinner plate, most likely due to their smaller size (harder to catch via echolocation). The easy solution would be to ask the whales to eat smaller chinook and other species but that just aint gonna happen in all likelihood. The major problem these whales have is that the other big chinook that they rely on throughout the year have essentially disappeared (winter run in sacramento; june run in columbia; etc).
Th size issue is also a reason why throwing up a bunch of new hatcheries isn't necessarily going to solve our SRKW issue. In order to do that, we'd need the hatcheries/enhancement pens that are strategically located so that run timing overlaps with SRKW migration and we'd also need those fish to be large in size. Many hatchery fish return as small adults that wouldn't be primary targets for SRKW. It's the larger chinook populations that would have to be enhanced to have meaningful benefits.
All that to say, go ahead a bonk a few small winter hatchery fish! They are tasty as hell and if it's the difference between eating a fresh 8lb hatchery chinook in February vs. thawing out a chunk of your 35lb harrison white you caught in August you can feel good about the winter spring.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Yeah must of been eating something other then Chinook off Point Roberts in January.
January 19
https://www.orcanetwork.org/Main/index.php?categories_file=Sightings
Photos from 1/19 as K pod swam past Point Robinson, Vashon in the fading daylight. K20 Spock (born 1986), K16 Sonata (born 1985), K35 Opus (Sonata's son, born 2002), K22 Sekiu (born 1987) alongside her mother K12 Sequim (born est. 1972), K37 Rainshadow (K12's son, born 2003), K21 Cappuccino (maybe) & K33 Tika (born 2001) alongside his mom K22 Sekiu. Such an awesome close pass by the shore! -Marla Smith
(IDs by Melisa Pinnow, CWR)
*
...I haven't seen the SRKW's in several months! We made new friends and enjoyed freezing in the pouring rain and making magical memories at Pt. Robinson on Vashon Island. K35 Sonata (born 2002), K22 Sekiu (born 1987), K27 Deadhead (born 1994), and K12 (born est. 1972), K33 Tika (born 2001), K38 Comet (born 2004), and K36 Yoda (born 2003). -Dori Dace
(IDs by Melisa Pinnow, CWR)
January 19
https://www.orcanetwork.org/Main/index.php?categories_file=Sightings
Photos from 1/19 as K pod swam past Point Robinson, Vashon in the fading daylight. K20 Spock (born 1986), K16 Sonata (born 1985), K35 Opus (Sonata's son, born 2002), K22 Sekiu (born 1987) alongside her mother K12 Sequim (born est. 1972), K37 Rainshadow (K12's son, born 2003), K21 Cappuccino (maybe) & K33 Tika (born 2001) alongside his mom K22 Sekiu. Such an awesome close pass by the shore! -Marla Smith
(IDs by Melisa Pinnow, CWR)
*
...I haven't seen the SRKW's in several months! We made new friends and enjoyed freezing in the pouring rain and making magical memories at Pt. Robinson on Vashon Island. K35 Sonata (born 2002), K22 Sekiu (born 1987), K27 Deadhead (born 1994), and K12 (born est. 1972), K33 Tika (born 2001), K38 Comet (born 2004), and K36 Yoda (born 2003). -Dori Dace
(IDs by Melisa Pinnow, CWR)
Peahead
Well-Known Member
I think this post sums it up just perfectly so thank-you CM ......it took a while to get there but ....admin we are finished with this topic so you can close up this thread now! lol
Sorry wrong. They have a preference in the summer months when large Chinook are available and other species of salmon are not. In winter they feed on immature Chinook as that is all they have available to them. In the summer once large numbers of coho, pinks, chum or sockeye show up they are more often seen out on the tidelines feeding on those. A lot easier to chase down and kill from a school of fish then one individual. They like us are taking smaller Chinook in the summer when that is the only choice. If they were holding out for 20 to 40 pound Chinook the last 5 years they would all be dead by now.
