Stopping chinook fishing

[bigdogeh]

Yes I know as I'm 100% on board on getting them off the migration routes. That said can you think of a way to release 300K salmon in 18 to 24 months? Does that ring a bell?

As much as I'm against atlantic salmon open net pen fish farms (and hatcheries to a certain extent) this may be a good opportunity to spend some government money on closed containment chinook hatcheries. The fish farms definitely need to be removed off the migration routes if we want to have any wild salmon left for our grandchildren. I agree with Terrin, that's a large part (if not the largest part) of what's gotten us into this mess. That's (getting rid of the open net pen fish farms) a no-brain'r although the powers that be can't seem to figure that out..

 

[ziggy]

The FN & Greens have become a well funded organized group. We can't even get a pipeline built.

Now that they don't have a pipeline to focus on (almost) just wait and see the next targets... I mean come on, BC voted in the Greens who hold the balance of power and will get what ever they want.

A monster has been created to stop pipelines. The pepole are the ones who helped back them & build them to what they are today. First the Grizzy hunt next the salmon..

Point taken regarding the 3Greens Provicially,but the Fisheries we are talking about is under the control of the Federal Liberals. BC does have the only Green MP, but she isn't swinging any weight on this or probably any other issue.

 

[terrin]

Yes I know as I'm 100% on board on getting them off the migration routes. That said can you think of a way to release 300K salmon in 18 to 24 months? Does that ring a bell?

I said out of the Ocean not off migration routes there are salmon runs in almost every creek and river up and down the coastline which means the migration routes are everywhere. The salmon and the Orcas are doomed if we don't get them off the water. There is no middle ground in this and time is running out.

 

[littlechucky]

Came across this.

http://frafs.ca/sites/default/files/2014 Post-season Fraser CN CO and CH.pdf

I'm not sure how much this would change in 2017 with the fishing restrictions in the Fraser.

I was surprised at the number of Chinook harvested in the Fraser both rec and fn.

Curious to know how those numbers would compare to all the Fraser Chinook harvested at sea (hard to assess though).

 

[Dave]

The salmon and the Orcas are doomed if we don't get them off the water.

Really?
The only way to save chinook salmon is for all user groups to wake up see the writing on the wall; most stocks are well and truly endangered, some possibly past the point of recovery due to, among other reasons, a lack of genetic diversity.
All user groups must stop fighting over the right to harvest the remnants of these fish and just stop killing them, plain and simple.

 

[fogged in]

Really?
The only way to save chinook salmon is for all user groups to wake up see the writing on the wall; most stocks are well and truly endangered, some possibly past the point of recovery due to, among other reasons, a lack of genetic diversity.
All user groups must stop fighting over the right to harvest the remnants of these fish and just stop killing them, plain and simple.

Your post seems to ignore that fact that Fish Farms ARE KILLING wild salmon, Chinook included, WE JUST DON'T KNOW HOW MANY!
OR are you saying Dave, that Fish Farms do not kill ANY WILD SALMON, including Chinook and Fish Farm disease and parasites are not, have not nor will they ever play ANY part in declining Wild Salmon stocks?

 

[terrin]

Really?
The only way to save chinook salmon is for all user groups to wake up see the writing on the wall; most stocks are well and truly endangered, some possibly past the point of recovery due to, among other reasons, a lack of genetic diversity.
All user groups must stop fighting over the right to harvest the remnants of these fish and just stop killing them, plain and simple.

Once we get the Fish Farms off the Ocean if more steps are necessary then so be it but first the disease spreading, lice infesting feed lots need to go onshore.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Really?
The only way to save chinook salmon is for all user groups to wake up see the writing on the wall; most stocks are well and truly endangered, some possibly past the point of recovery due to, among other reasons, a lack of genetic diversity.
All user groups must stop fighting over the right to harvest the remnants of these fish and just stop killing them, plain and simple.

Stopping all harvesting (which is not possible for many reasons) will only slow the demise of wild salmon in the long term if we do not consider other factors for ensuring healthy and sustainable salmon populations. This is an overly simplistic statement that is hopefully it is not meant to just frustrate and bait the fishers on this forum.

We need a multi-pronged approach of reducing harvesting, and restoring and protecting salmon habitat and the waterways and watersheds that salmon reproduce and live in (i.e. urban, and industrial development and pollution, mining spawning gravel, logging, mining and agricultural impacts, etc.). We need to reduce greenhouse emissions to reduce the negative impact of climate change, reduce the overfishing of bait fish they feed on, AND get the polluting, disease spreading net pen fish farms onto land where their negative impacts can be better managed! No sense in just reducing harvesting when they remaining salmon can't reproduce in polluted, overheated, drying up waterways and go out to sea to starve as their is no bait fish for them to eat, etc.

 

[Derby]

Stopping sport fishing for Chinooks will not put more food in whales mouths.. but a combination of a bunch of things will and fairly quickly..

- a seal cull

- DFO Must work on habitat restoration ...this will take time but will put more Chinooks in the salish sea.. we have to hold DFO accountable for this as this work should be ongo and have been done. I would go as far to say we maybe in predicament because this hasn't been done...

- instead or perhaps if the government didn't spend 7.5 millions dollars into listening to whale give us 7.5 million Chinook smolts to be pen reared like the sooke project in selected location thru out the Salish sea right now..we would have a quick patch for the whales as early as next year .. We already know thru the dna programs what stock hang in what area and when.... just my food for thought...

 

[Dave]

Witw, it's not my intention to bait readers on this forum, and Derby, I have already stated it's my opinion there is plenty of fresh water spawning and rearing habitat in most tributaries for Fraser River chinooks. What is lacking is spawners, and curtailment of mortalities is the only way to increase them. I agree, more projects like pen rearing juvenile chinooks has promise but until more fish are allowed to spawn we are wasting precious time for the remnants of these stocks.

 

[profisher]

I'll bite..so which fisheries should be curtailed to get more spawners into the Fraser. The recreational anglers in areas 19/20 who already have reduced their impact to less than 2% on stocks of concern by accepting measures already in place? Or the in river net fishers who have fished sockeye to the brink and who are now given more Chinook to make up for there being to few sockeye for anyone to fish anymore? Or the Alaska commercial fisheries which I've been told take 35% of our Chinook output? Where will the biggest gain in spawners back on the beds be achieved by restricting fisheries? If you can't reduce the catch of those who take the biggest share then further restricting those who take the smallest share achieves to little to make any timely or significant improvement.

 

[Dave]

All of the fisheries you mention should be curtailed. Imo, Fraser River FN have by far the greatest impact on these chinook stocks but the reality is they won't stop fishing until there are absolutely no other openings by commercial or sports fishermen in the approach areas.
Times are tough and the future is bleak for these fish. We can argue and ***** about who can harvest them until they are gone, or the numbers are such that DFO has no choice but to shut it down completely, or we can do what is necessary - stop killing them. Now.

 

[terrin]

All of the fisheries you mention should be curtailed. Imo, Fraser River FN have by far the greatest impact on these chinook stocks but the reality is they won't stop fishing until there are absolutely no other openings by commercial or sports fishermen in the approach areas.
Times are tough and the future is bleak for these fish. We can argue and ***** about who can harvest them until they are gone, or the numbers are such that DFO has no choice but to shut it down completely, or we can do what is necessary - stop killing them. Now.

That is why the Precautionary Principle must be enacted right away towards the removal of Fish Farms from the Ocean until they can prove zero impact on Wild Fish of all types. Watch the W-5 Report from this last Saturday. Its disgusting what they are getting away with and needs to be the first step taken to address this situation.

 

[profisher]

I didn't suggest the FN stop fishing, as I strongly believe that with proper catch restrictions and proper catch monitoring those fish would come back. If FN objects to those conditions of fishing then we are all wasting our time. Obviously this only works in conjunction with a full recovery plan that includes everything that has been mentioned in this thread by others.

 

[rockdog]

Funny Dave, 'we must stop killing them, now', yet you are a huge pro fish farm guy and they are known to be killing plenty.

The fish farm motto seems to be stall, deflect, deny. Eventually hanging on for a few more years to the point where the Wild fish are gone, then it won't matter if the farms are in the water, and the ocean can magically keep dealing with the fish farm poop as Ian Roberts claims! Now that is good science

 

[Dave]

Here's the thing rockdog, I don't know of a single Fraser River chinook killed by a salmon farm but I do know of thousands killed by Sto-Lo fishers in the Chilliwack to Fraser Canyon area over the past few years.

This thread was supposed to be about chinooks, right?

 

[rockdog]

Not a single one? Wow. I've read lots of studies that have shown me very different than what you claim. Lots of links, but we won't get into that as it's just a circle with you guys.

C'mon Dave, don't be ridiculous. We are well past the 'if' stage of impact, and more at the 'how much' stage now.

 

[profisher]

There is also a hig difference when something is killed and consumed verses killed and wasted. Every dead salmon as a result of interaction with open pen sea farms is a wasted death.

 

[tincan]

Yes, @OldBlackDog , the mention of a seal cull was brought up at the symposium (and article below). There is mounting evidence that harbour seals are eating a large percentage of juvenile salmon (chinook and others) as they leave river estuaries for the Strait of Georgia. This evidence is still be gathered through (http://marinesurvivalproject.com/) and will be used in in future policy making going forward no doubt. The seal population in the SOG has held constant at around 40,000 seals since the early 1990's. It was also estimated to be around that level in the early 1900's but did drop off massively (down to around 5,000) when the cull was in place. As has been mentioned before there are no quick and easy fixes to this problem. A cull could be part of it perhaps but it alone won't save our chinook. It's a complex issue that requires a complex solution. Some aspects of the solution can be done now (ie. cull; increased chinook net pets; eel grass transplants; fishing regs, etc) but others are mid-long term.

So, did the discussion cover killing of a lot of the seal population?

They defiantly have had a huge effect on salmon and their population has grown immensely.

---

Stopping all fishing of chinook, including harvesting by First Nations, likely won’t provide an instant food solution for endangered Southern Resident killer whales, the president of the Pacific Salmon Foundation said Tuesday.

Brian Riddell, a former senior official with Fisheries and Oceans Canada, said in an interview there are limited options to help the whales other than to stop fishing. “Can you do it? Certainly. That’s something that could be done right now, if that was the priority. You could stop all fishing and put all the fish on the spawning grounds.

“It depends how far you want to take it. These things have repercussions — First Nations’ use, for example. I think everything’s on the table.”

The Pacific Salmon Commission reports a total catch of 1.69 million chinook in 2016, including 1.15 million by Americans and the rest by Canadian fisheries.

Riddell said he is not convinced that taking “large-scale immediate actions are going to make an immediate difference” for the whales. He also believes it is possible to provide limited in-river First Nations chinook catches without having a major impact on productivity. In Canada, only conservation takes priority over First Nations’ food, social, and ceremonial fishing.

What is needed over the longer term is to increase the overall abundance of chinook, including protection of their habitat, while acknowledging the impact of other marine predators on those same chinook, he said. “That’s probably the only way we’ll make a significant difference.” One option for increasing productivity is to acclimate chinook smolts through their transition to sea water by feeding them in temporary sea-pens.

Chinook is the largest species of Pacific salmon and the preferred diet of the Southern Resident killer whales, especially in summer. The fish typically has a five-year life cycle.

“There’s no question the whales are struggling in terms of diet,” Riddell said. “We have to make a major change. If the decision is that Southern Resident orcas are the priority for recovery, then we’ll have to provide additional food and other actions as well.”

Southern Residents are thought to number just 76 in three pods after a young male showing signs of malnutrition disappeared last month. Lack of chinook is thought to be a leading cause of their decline, with other factors including pollution and vessel noise.

Riddell also said that ongoing research involving the foundation and the University of B.C. shows that harbour seals can have a substantial impact on juvenile chinook migrating downriver to sea and that society at some point may have to consider culling seal populations.

“If you show evidence … I’m quite sure that option is going to be brought up,” he said. “There are a lot of seals around. They’re a significant source of (chinook) mortality.”

Full article: http://vancouversun.com/news/local-...-to-help-hungry-killer-whales-salmon-official

 

[fogged in]

Here's the thing rockdog, I don't know of a single Fraser River chinook killed by a salmon farm but I do know of thousands killed by Sto-Lo fishers in the Chilliwack to Fraser Canyon area over the past few years.
This thread was supposed to be about chinooks, right?

This Thread is "Stopping chinook fishing"
Discussion has been will this action alone solve the problem.
There is an overwhelming consensus that this step alone will not solve the problem
The solution to the problem is complex, with no easy answers.
Most of the challenges have been discussed on this thread.
There is one part of the problem that is in constant denial.
Spokespersons for Fish Farms stand by their position that they are not part of the problem, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Dave says "I don't know of a single Fraser River chinook killed by a salmon farm"
Ignorance is not a defense Dave.
Clearly Fish Farms know their sea lice and disease have killed wild salmon and will continue to do so.
You tell me how to determine exactly how many they have killed and continue to kill each year!!