Stopping chinook fishing

[Peahead]

So, did the discussion cover killing of a lot of the seal population?

They defiantly have had a huge effect on salmon and their population has grown immensely.

Culls like this have been done in the past and its certainly is discussed 'behind closed doors'....you just won't here about it but that's kind of obvious why. Its all hush hush and while it is recognized that seals do target and eat migrating juvenile Chinook and that seal populations have increased, I somehow doubt that any of the conservation groups such as the David Suzuki Foundation would be on board for a seal cull (even with seals likely being part of the reason for Chinook declines)

 

[ziggy]

Thanks for the info. I see number one seems to be pretty political,self serving and perhaps telling for at least one special interest group. If I'm reading it correctly it pretty much calls for a ban, except in the natal rivers( terminal).In other words put away the rods and reels and gill net the crap out of the spawning rivers?Wonder who is pushing this? Certainly makes me question the credibility of Suzuki Foundation on this issue if I am reading this correctly. Maybe I'm wrong but why the term non terminal interception?

1. Increase Salish Sea Chinook abundance by closing (non-terminal) interception Chinook fisheries.

 

[Peahead]

Thanks for the info. I see number one seems to be pretty political,self serving and perhaps telling for at least one special interest group. If I'm reading it correctly it pretty much calls for a ban, except in the natal rivers( terminal).In other words put away the rods and reels and gill net the crap out of the spawning rivers?Wonder who is pushing this? Certainly makes me question the credibility of Suzuki Foundation on this issue if I am reading this correctly. Maybe I'm wrong but why the term non terminal interception?

1. Increase Salish Sea Chinook abundance by closing (non-terminal) interception Chinook fisheries.

Just my opinion but aside from what you are saying.... ( of which I agree with for the most part) I'd think maybe also because Orcas don't forage up in the Fraser River so no point in closing the river to Chinook with any idea that this would make them available to Orcas there. BUT there is a point in keeping the river clear of nets ( and fishers) if needed for conservation reasons (to meet escapement numbers for chinook stocks)
So saying that I'd think it certainly possibly that First Nation FSC in river could certainly be limited/or closed at certain times as well. Remember conservation 1st then FN FSC .......not the other way round !!
Course there is the poaching too.......sigh..

 

[ziggy]

Just my opinion but aside from what you are saying.... ( of which I agree with for the most part) I'd think maybe also because Orcas don't forage up in the Fraser River so no point in closing the river to Chinook with any idea that this would make them available to Orcas there. BUT there is a point in keeping the river clear of nets ( and fishers) if needed for conservation reasons (to meet escapement numbers for chinook stocks)
So saying that I'd think it certainly possibly that First Nation FSC in river could certainly be limited/or closed at certain times as well. Remember conservation 1st then FN FSC .......not the other way round !!
Course there is the poaching too.......sigh..

My opinion was that protecting the fish at sea only to harvest them with no restriction in the spawning rivers is somewhat retarded. Maybe I'm being cynical but nowhere is there even a mention of reducing or closing harvesting in the river. In fact it's pretty clear this fishery is not on the block, hence the restrictions to non terminal fishery only.Yes the orcas won't be feeding off these fish, but these fish will produce no offspring for the orcas to feed on either. Why is the Suzuki Foundation ignoring the harvest that takes place when the species is most at risk of over harvest. Narrow channels and wide nets vs hook and line?

 

[Peahead]

Agree on the offspring comment Zig, hence my mentioning the importance of meeting escapement numbers. If they want to protect Chinook and put enough in the ocean (for orcas to access enough) then absolutely they better be making sure there are enough making it to spawning grounds. This would mean then that there may be closures in the river (including FN FSC) as mentioned in my last post. re your last question....I am not sure why anyone would be ignoring the harvest of Chinook where the species are most at risk UNLESS it was believed that escapement goals could still be met despite FN FSC use.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Excellent point Ziggy. I suggest reducing in-river harvesting of Chinook is not being considered is because:

• the FN don't want it - they consider them their fish
• the Enviro's don't want as they don't want to **** off the FN's - they are allies in this one
• DFO and the politicians don't what any bad PR and trouble with FN's and they don't want any more court cases from them
• it is easier for them to restrict the other resource sectors at this time (we need to change this and quick)

The bigger, more important question is it the right thing to do from a common sense, sound resource management/conservation point of view looking out for the best interests of the SRKW population - no!

 

[SpringVelocity]

The recent media news reports combined with plan attack by environmentalists to shutdown all chinook fishing is why we are talking about this. I have been shocked with how many organization that have been onside with sportfishing would be lobbying the government now to shut all fishing down. Go look at some groups like watershed watch and Georgia straight alliance on what they are saying. Its unreal. I would really like to know who is driving the bus in these organizations now.

 

[SpringVelocity]

FYI,


Realizing the link below is an article put out by the David Suzuki Foundation, there is a list there of possible actions that conservation groups have come up with. #1, #2 and #6 are the main ones that would seem to effect fishers in southern portion of GS

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/media/ne...ymposium-failed-to-establish-concrete-action/

Thanks for this it seem like Suzuki is driving the push to close down the chinook fishery along with Georgia straight alliance, watershed watch and others. Many of these are I believe funded by whale watching groups aren't they? mmmm.

 

[terrin]

A lot of stuff in nature is hard to believe. That doesn't make it untrue, however, and the SRWK are literally starving (and dying) due to lack of prey. Prey, in their case, is almost entirely chinook salmon (80% + in summer months). They will also eat some chum and steelhead but by FAR chinook salmon are their preferred target. This population of 76 whales is one of the most studied groups of animals on the world. We know a lot about them but there are obviously lots of unknowns as well. After attending the killer whale symposium this week and listening to the Ministers speak I think it's a safe bet that there will be some major announcements forthcoming regarding chinook salmon harvest. As a fisherman I obviously don't want to be restricted from fishing for chinook but I think it may well happen, at least during some times of the year when these fish are being hunted by the SRKW in the Strait of Georgia.

The rec sector should be concerned, the whale watching sectors (probably facing increased regs) should be concerned, and commercial and even FN fisheries should be concerned.

The Whale watching outfits in Steveston have grown from two boats last couple of years to this year 6 big boats run by three different companies Red, Yellow and Blue boats. Needs to be addressed as its totally out of hand and thats just from the Steveston location.

 

[Aces]

Hypocrites

 

[ziggy]

Agree on the offspring comment Zig, hence my mentioning the importance of meeting escapement numbers. If they want to protect Chinook and put enough in the ocean (for orcas to access enough) then absolutely they better be making sure there are enough making it to spawning grounds. This would mean then that there may be closures in the river (including FN FSC) as mentioned in my last post. re your last question....I am not sure why anyone would be ignoring the harvest of Chinook where the species are most at risk UNLESS it was believed that escapement goals could still be met despite FN FSC use.

I'm not taking a shot at you, rather the failure of the Suzuki organization to mention in river conservation. Conspicuous by its absence IMHO. Politics trumping Conservation by a Conservation organization, who'd of thought?

 

[profisher]

There is a way to win here in my mind. FN has all the political clout and that is why the greens have made them allies. FN are pushing DFO to shut down rec fisheries and that is also the agenda of the greens in this effort to get more food to whales. As a politician who has to choose a side...not usually about what is the right decision but on what side do most of the votes lie for me. FN and the greens are winning the battle for the governments ear and ultimately their mouths as well. But what are FN going to win...a wild salmon policy with no investment in restoring salmon runs and a green ally that doesn't put boots on the ground to do anything positive either. So as with Thompson Coho....20 years later and no progress. This means FN will continue to suffer restricted fishing in low abundance years even with the rec and commy fisheries shut down.
Both the rec and commy reps need to highjack the FN/green alliance by simply doing the following. Approach FN leaders and explain to them what I just described and convince them there is a better approach. Lets put all differences aside (not asking for anyone to change their minds or opinions on who is right or wrong) just put it all aside... and then agree that we both want more fish so that we can conduct normal fisheries. A FN/rec/commy alliance to pressure government to act now on a recovery plan and to step up SEP to provide whales and fishers with healthy stocks of salmon.
The question to FN is then...do you want to align yourself with a group that wants to restrict fisheries and who supports a failed policy that will ultimately lead to many more years of restricted fishing with no positive results. Or do you want to align yourself with groups that want to see positive changes that take place sooner than later....policies and action that get us all who depend on these salmon (whales, FN, rec and commercial) back to normal fisheries. FN has the political clout to make DFO act...the rec and commercial sector has the resources and the willing manpower to get it done.

 

[agentaqua]

Unfortunately, I see some NGOs taking advantage of FNs - and most NGOs are either isolated from the repercussions of their recommendations - or actively benefit from them.

 

[ziggy]

Sad but true AA! At some point the FN leadership will realize they are being used, or even better the rank and file. History repeating itself?

 

[GLG]

Lets put all differences aside (not asking for anyone to change their minds or opinions on who is right or wrong) just put it all aside... and then agree that we both want more fish so that we can conduct normal fisheries. A FN/rec/commy alliance to pressure government to act now on a recovery plan and to step up SEP to provide whales and fishers with healthy stocks of salmon.
The question to FN is then...do you want to align yourself with a group that wants to restrict fisheries and who supports a failed policy that will ultimately lead to many more years of restricted fishing with no positive results. Or do you want to align yourself with groups that want to see positive changes that take place sooner than later....policies and action that get us all who depend on these salmon (whales, FN, rec and commercial) back to normal fisheries. FN has the political clout to make DFO act...the rec and commercial sector has the resources and the willing manpower to get it done.

It does not surprise me that Profisher is right on this one. I would also add that fish farms could also be included as we could use their expertise in growing fish that survive in this challenging environment. I would argue that if we could increase the quality of the smolts and give them an edge, we would increase the percentage of smolt to adult survival. The first thing I would do is vaccinate SEP fish against the common disease that we know that they are challenged by.

 

[terrin]

It does not surprise me that Profisher is right on this one. I would also add that fish farms could also be included as we could use their expertise in growing fish that survive in this challenging environment. I would argue that if we could increase the quality of the smolts and give them an edge, we would increase the percentage of smolt to adult survival. The first thing I would do is vaccinate SEP fish against the common disease that we know that they are challenged by.

Are you kidding Fish Farms are a big part of whats got us in this mess and getting them out of the ocean is part of the solution.

 

[scott craven]

With all that's happening both politically and environmentally, I have a bad feeling we
will indeed see complete closures in the near future.
Hope I'm wrong.

 

[ziggy]

It does not surprise me that Profisher is right on this one. I would also add that fish farms could also be included as we could use their expertise in growing fish that survive in this challenging environment. I would argue that if we could increase the quality of the smolts and give them an edge, we would increase the percentage of smolt to adult survival. The first thing I would do is vaccinate SEP fish against the common disease that we know that they are challenged by.

Hey maybe a way to repurpose fish farms. Although I think the enviros also have some well founded concerns about ranching.

 

[GLG]

Are you kidding Fish Farms are a big part of whats got us in this mess and getting them out of the ocean is part of the solution.

Yes I know as I'm 100% on board on getting them off the migration routes. That said can you think of a way to release 300K salmon in 18 to 24 months? Does that ring a bell?

 

[ILHG]

The FN & Greens have become a well funded organized group. We can't even get a pipeline built.

Now that they don't have a pipeline to focus on (almost) just wait and see the next targets... I mean come on, BC voted in the Greens who hold the balance of power and will get what ever they want.

A monster has been created to stop pipelines. The pepole are the ones who helped back them & build them to what they are today. First the Grizzy hunt next the salmon..