N.S. fish farm rejected: risk to wild salmon.

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Here's a good one on feed for aquaculture.
I haven't read the entire 94 pages, but there is plenty of info in there.
http://salmonfarmscience.files.word...ech_guidelines_for_responsible_fisheries1.pdf

These are the main feed production companies websites:
http://www.ewos.com/wps/wcm/connect/ewos-content-group/ewos-group
http://www.skretting.ca/

You guys are welcome to read for yourself - I don't have time to spoon feed.

Here is a much better one on the devastating human and ecological effects of feed production for fish feed lots.

http://www.theecologist.org/trial_i..._devastating_coastal_communities_in_peru.html

‘The salmon we produce is eaten by the mouths of people in the USA and Europe, but the asshole is here in Latin America,’ says Jean Carlos Cardenas of Ecoceanos. ‘The true cost of the cheap salmon you eat is being paid with the blood of our people and the health of our oceans.’
 
CK: Why are you defending secrecy? If you have nothing to hide, why are you so afraid? Why wouldn't you want an open, transparent inclusive process to protect wild fish?
 
CK: Why are you defending secrecy? If you have nothing to hide, why are you so afraid? Why wouldn't you want an open, transparent inclusive process to protect wild fish?

LOL! The classic line comes out.

I can just see you guys grinning and rubbing your hands together... "Oh we've got him now!"

If farms were actually harming wild stocks all you brilliant minds out there wouldn't need any information from us to prove it.

You don't even have any numbers to support your idea (NO, a scientifically suspect hypothesis doesn't count) that declines in some stocks can be attributed to farms.

You've got nothing but your deep seated and pre-conceived notions about aquaculture that fuel your mistrust and over-the-top expectations regarding transparency to go on.

And on you go.

I wasn't involved in the BCSFA matter with T. Buck Suzuki, but I don't see where any other industry would have acted differently.

I wonder what would have happened if the pork industry was about to have all the same type of data released by the Province?

The matter of reportable diseases was entirely a government decision and had nothing to do with us - unless you want to push the whole conspiracy rant, which really does wonders for your cause...

You can post all the pseudoscience you want, make reference to all the supposed links and correlations you think are out there and repeat every story you hear that is crafted to vilify salmon farms out there - but in the end you are still left in the position of having no substance to your claims.

There is nothing new with a bunch of pissed off fisherman, the only difference now is that there is aquaculture to play the role of the boogeyman and all fingers shift away from the old suspects, regardless of the amount or weight of evidence supporting that position.

I'm sure for years to come some people will still carry on with the view that farms are bad and blah, blah, blah blah - but as long as the salmon keep coming back and the industry keeps functioning as I see it doing they will inevitably become fewer and fewer. (Even if they try to make up for the lack of numbers with increased noisyness and even more underhanded and ridiculous tactics)
 
I heard there is a new forum online @ www.sickfishbc.com it is a pro fish farming forum with almost 5 members of mostly people on the payroll of the big corporation fish farms......great bunch of guys ;-) I heard they have been catching some beauties out of some of their pens lately!6a0120a56ab882970c01761626ef68970c-800wi.jpg
 
I heard there is a new forum online @ www.sickfishbc.com it is a pro fish farming forum with almost 5 members of mostly people on the payroll of the big corporation fish farms......great bunch of guys ;-) I heard they have been catching some beauties out of some of their pens lately!View attachment 6774

Thats the great thing about farmed salmon, the quality! Pretty embarrassing for a store to try and sell that.
 
I wasn't involved in the BCSFA matter with T. Buck Suzuki, but I don't see where any other industry would have acted differently...The matter of reportable diseases was entirely a government decision and had nothing to do with us
No, I'm sure you weren't personally involved in the backroom deals at higher levels between government officials and fish farm representatives. You shouldn't feel responsible or guilty for actions beyond your own. The industry you are a part of operates within a network of fear and intimidation, though.

And yes, other industries (e.g. pipelines, oil companies, etc.) also often successfully subvert democracy and good governance, as well. That doesn't make it right.

And yes, and other industry that lacks integrity and social licence might act similarly. Again, that doesn't make it right or mean that we have to put up with that behaviour.

AND no, it had everything to do with your industry and it's political and environmental effects interfering with good governance through lobbying, rather than your assertion that it “had nothing to do with us”.
I can just see you guys grinning and rubbing your hands together... "Oh we've got him now!"
No, CK – I can assure you that I do not sit at my computer and rub my hands together and say “I've got CK now”. To be honest, you don't rank that high in my list of priorities and focus; and even if you did I would have a different reaction - hopefully one more mature and productive.

I find your comment both unfortunate and enlightening. Enlightening in the context of where you obviously feel threatened by open and honest dialogue, and unfortunate that you do.

Enlightening in the context of what fear you carry, and unfortunate that you appear to lack the personal and professional maturity to let it go.

Enlightening in the context of what defensive stories pro-industry workers tell themselves, and unfortunate that they do – because I can assure you we all take the future of wild salmon extremely seriously on this forum, and we need to find a way to have these dialogues despite our collective fears.
 
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No, I'm sure you weren't personally involved in the backroom deals at higher levels between government officials and fish farm representatives. You shouldn't feel responsible or guilty for actions beyond your own. The industry you are a part of operates within a network of fear and intimidation, though.

And yes, other industries (e.g. pipelines, oil companies, etc.) also often successfully subvert democracy and good governance, as well. That doesn't make it right.

And yes, and other industry that lacks integrity and social licence might act similarly. Again, that doesn't make it right or mean that we have to put up with that behaviour.

AND no, it had everything to do with your industry and it's political and environmental effects interfering with good governance through lobbying, rather than your assertion that it “had nothing to do with us”.No, CK – I can assure you that I do not sit at my computer and rub my hands together and say “I've got CK now”. To be honest, you don't rank that high in my list of priorities and focus; and even if you did I would have a different reaction - hopefully one more mature and productive.

I find your comment both unfortunate and enlightening. Enlightening in the context of where you obviously feel threatened by open and honest dialogue, and unfortunate that you do.

Enlightening in the context of what fear you carry, and unfortunate that you appear to lack the personal and professional maturity to let it go.

Enlightening in the context of what defensive stories pro-industry workers tell themselves, and unfortunate that they do – because I can assure you we all take the future of wild salmon extremely seriously on this forum, and we need to find a way to have these dialogues despite our collective fears.

Enough with the self-righteous, holier-than-thou gushing of environmental/sociological feelings Aqua - I'd like to see some evidence to support your views that doesn't include a hypothesis + fill in the blanks = conclusion type study, and actually presents a cohesive outline of just how you propose salmon farms are harming wild salmon.

Sea lice never panned out as a smoking gun, despite years of study and a whole lot of effort put into it (I'm not talking about the Atlantic, because that is an entirely different system)

If you are on to disease now, which one(s)? Are they endemic to the Pacific? Have wild salmon evolved with them?

Is there any way you can actually show that the risk of farmed salmon being infected with these diseases and immediately culled poses a risk to wild salmon in any significant way?

Are they ones which you propose the introduction of Atlantics for farming in BC might have brought?

Can you show where they are present? And then show when/where they showed up, as to be certain they weren't introduced 100 years ago with the first Atlantics stocked for SPORTFISHING.

It looks to me like the whole theory of farmed salmon introducing disease falls apart when you consider the above and the fact that our fish health is pretty much top priority to us.

You wouldn't be a very good farmer if you tried to raise sick animals, why wouldn't we have practices in place to ensure that we didn't?

You seem to focus on what you see as negative actions and then attempt to extrapolate some sort of evil corporate agenda onto everything we do, while ignoring the fact that without healthy fish we can't make money - and healthy fish pose no threat to wild stocks.

I've got plenty of personal and professional maturity, well enough to let the clown show come out when the going gets tough without engaging in mud-slinging - so if you are the best this forum has to offer maybe try to stay away from the fallback position of attacking perceived corporate and personal agendas and work more on explaining how you can be so sure about something without much, if any tangible evidence.

That sounds to me like more of a religious dogma than any sort of scientific, reality based view.
 
No fish have been harmed in this process. :)

I heard there is a new forum online @ www.sickfishbc.com it is a pro fish farming forum with almost 5 members of mostly people on the payroll of the big corporation fish farms......great bunch of guys ;-) I heard they have been catching some beauties out of some of their pens lately!View attachment 6774
 
CK: You dont win on here by being agressive and ,or by ignoring points that others make. You don't itimidate myself or others on here by your rants. Your reaction is quite childish, unprofessional and unproductive. I hope you don't treat your employees on the farm like this.

Dialogue requires debating points and accepting some measure of considering other's points of view. At least sockeyefry demonstrates that ability. You only have demonstrated that you are incapable of working with others who disagree with you.

Profile of the Sociopath
This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.


Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.


Incapacity for Love


Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.


Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.


Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
 
CK: You dont win on here by being agressive and ,or by ignoring points that others make. You don't itimidate myself or others on here by your rants. Your reaction is quite childish, unprofessional and unproductive. I hope you don't treat your employees on the farm like this.

Dialogue requires debating points and accepting some measure of considering other's points of view. At least sockeyefry demonstrates that ability. You only have demonstrated that you are incapable of working with others who disagree with you.

Profile of the Sociopath
This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.


Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.


Incapacity for Love


Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.


Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.


Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Thanks for the big bowl of "Copy Pasta" - Care to provide some original thought, or are you just going to attempt to label, marginalize and dismiss me from your high horse?

You still haven't brought anything more than the usual, worn-out and oft repeated points which many professional fish pathologists, marine biologists and academics have already scrutinized and debated.

You can have what you consider productive dialogue wherever and whenver you like with whomever you choose, but if you can't bring any evidence to the table which shows beyond a resonable doubt that there is a specific and quantifiable link between salmon farms and declines in wild stocks - you are simply expressing an opinion.

I'm not on here to talk about how the industry might change it's practices to reflect the perceived risks of some, I'm here to see if you guys can actually come up with something more than feelings which would show the world that the changes you propose are necessary.

Wild salmon are a huge part of my life and many near and dear to me, so don't give me any psycho-babble BS and try to say otherwise.

It just so happens that for the last decade or so farmed salmon have played a huge role as well, and until you guys can show me anything different than what I have seen first hand I will continue to press for evidence to support what I see as a misguided, uninformed and oftentimes entirely hypocritical position on aquaculture from people who kill wild salmon for sport and money.
 
Thanks for the big bowl of "Copy Pasta" - Care to provide some original thought, or are you just going to attempt to label, marginalize and dismiss me from your high horse?

You still haven't brought anything more than the usual, worn-out and oft repeated points which many professional fish pathologists, marine biologists and academics have already scrutinized and debated.

You can have what you consider productive dialogue wherever and whenver you like with whomever you choose, but if you can't bring any evidence to the table which shows beyond a resonable doubt that there is a specific and quantifiable link between salmon farms and declines in wild stocks - you are simply expressing an opinion.

I'm not on here to talk about how the industry might change it's practices to reflect the perceived risks of some, I'm here to see if you guys can actually come up with something more than feelings which would show the world that the changes you propose are necessary.

Wild salmon are a huge part of my life and many near and dear to me, so don't give me any psycho-babble BS and try to say otherwise.

It just so happens that for the last decade or so farmed salmon have played a huge role as well, and until you guys can show me anything different than what I have seen first hand I will continue to press for evidence to support what I see as a misguided, uninformed and oftentimes entirely hypocritical position on aquaculture from people who kill wild salmon for sport and money.
Oh! Oh! ... wait, wait a minute here? With all due respect sir, but I think you are out of line here CK? It’s one thing to not agree regardless of facts but to sling mud such as you just have in no way contributes to the conversation. Whats up with that? I have looked high and low to find some info that supports those types of your comments and can’t find any! Maybe YOU should be banned from further comments for using the term “psycho-babble BS”? Just say'n what's good for the goose!


All due respect sir but I think you are out of line here charlie. Its one thing to not agree regardless of facts but to sling mud such as you just have in no way contributes to the conversation. Whats up with that?
I have looked high and low to find some info that supports your comments that bc sockeye do not interact with alaskan salmon but I just cant find it.
 
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Maybe YOU should be banned from further comments for using the term “BS”?
Lol, that is exactly what a few of you want. Admit it, CK is right with his argument that until salmon farms are proven to cause mortalities to wild salmon all this talk really means nothing. Get over it; wait for the proper science from Riddell, Miller, Welch, and many others, to come forward.
 
All things aside there is some disturbing news out of Chile on a new outbreak of ISA
http://www.seafoodsource.com/newsarticledetail.aspx?id=20296
I sure hope lessons learned from the last one are enough to contain this new outbreak.
Learned? Canada? DFO/CFIA? Don't think so. Here's another link to another news story: http://www.undercurrentnews.com/201...-us-buyers-investors-nervy-over-isa-outbreak/

In it they state: "Since reporting the detection last Friday, the National Fisheries and Aquaculture (Sernapesca) has initiated a “rigorous control procedure”, and ordered all the fish to be removed from the farm, Sernapesca said."

And this is in a country with NO WILD SALMON to infect!!

What does Canada do - ok leave your ISA fish in the water for another 6 months to grow-out. In a country with WILD SALMON THAT CAN be INFECTED!!
 
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Lol, that is exactly what a few of you want. Admit it, CK is right with his argument that until salmon farms are proven to cause mortalities to wild salmon all this talk really means nothing. Get over it; wait for the proper science from Riddell, Miller, Welch, and many others, to come forward.

So CK is right Dave, I guesse you must also believe that the enbridge pipeline should go thru as they haven't hurt the enviroment yet and should only be stopped when a leak occurs. Great theory, except you have had disease outbreaks, you dump chemicles in the water to control lice and so on and so on. lol
 
Lol, that is exactly what a few of you want. Admit it, CK is right with his argument that until salmon farms are proven to cause mortalities to wild salmon all this talk really means nothing. Get over it; wait for the proper science from Riddell, Miller, Welch, and many others, to come forward.

Hmm... If Clayoquot Kim is right then wild salmon must not be the cause of mortalities in salmon farms. Although Clayoquot salmon feedlot operators make that claim. Hmm...
 
At Halifax Dinner ASF Promotes Sustainable Land-based Aquaculture
http://www.asf.ca/asf-promotes-sustainable-land-based-aquaculture.html

HALIFAX CHRONICLE HERALD

More than 300 members of the Atlantic Salmon Federation, many of them anglers, were planning to dine on Arctic char in Halifax on Thursday to support the organization’s promotion of land-based aquaculture.


“Ocean-farmed Atlantic salmon is typically one of the cheaper meals to serve at big dinners,” federation president Bill Taylor said in an interview. “We’re looking to make the point we can serve a large crowd fresh Arctic char from a sustainable land-based aquaculture operation for about the same price as ocean-farmed Atlantic salmon.”

Arctic char at the federation fundraising event came from a land-based aquaculture operation at Millbrook First Nation near Truro, developed in partnership with Sustainable Blue of Centre Burlington, Hants County.

Smoked salmon from a land-based aquaculture operation in West Virginia was also served at the annual fundraiser, being held in co-operation with the Nova Scotia Salmon Association."
 
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