HST or PST check out this link..too long for me to post

[yammy5]

Ha, those guys are a joke. They formed that alliance to support the job-creating benefits of the HST but we all know what a failure that has turned out to be.

The Liberals have admitted that they were WAY OFF in their job gain projections....they claimed the HST would create 113,000 jobs by 2020. Ha. Well they now admit that the forecasts were WRONG (or did they just lie?) and the HST will create a mere 24,000 jobs by 2020. The Province of BC has lost over 30,000 jobs since the HST came in July 2010 so it's already an uphill battle.

Here's the kicker; if we look at cost-benefit ratio, that’s 2400 hundred new HST jobs per year at a cost of $1.4 billion in extra HST tax dollars that you and I pay per year. Or $600,000 per new job. OUCH!!

And the predicted growth attributed to HST is now so small it can’t be distinguished from normal economic growth.

Someone should donate a calculator to the Smart Tax Alliance (and some common sense). Vote YES!

 

[TenMile]

91 Economists write an open letter in support of the HST: http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/Ninety+economists+rally+behind/5050585/story.html

snippet...

It is well known that value added taxes (like the HST) are superior to retail sales taxes (like the old PST). Because the PST taxed some inputs at every stage of production, the cascade of compounding taxes led to higher tax rates on investment. The HST, in contrast, taxes only final products at a clear and transparent rate. This is why 140 countries in the world use value-added taxes like the HST, and only a few jurisdictions in Canada and the United States still use taxes like the PST.

Economists know that removing a penalty to investment will produce more investment in capital goods like equipment, machinery and buildings. These investments support growth in jobs and wages. Removing barriers like the PST from the tax system is best for the long-run prosperity of B.C.

Many economists are also concerned about the fairness of outcomes. The new HST credit, by providing $230 per year for each family member in low-income families, helps improve the fairness of the HST. By exempting basic food and rent, the HST's burden on lower income households is again lightened.



Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Ninety+economists+rally+behind/5050585/story.html#ixzz1RXWMRjHD

 

[MILLERTIME]

I like the way everyone avoids the real issue which is that this tax shifts $2.2 billion away from corporations and onto the backs of middle and lower class British Columbian's.

It is of course a better tax for the rich and corporations but for the majority of British Columbian's it is a disaster.

 

[TenMile]

Not avoiding that one at all -- it's one of the main points to be made -- lower the taxes on business inputs and that makes business more competitive. When business is more competitive, they sell more product and can make more investments and grow. When business grows, they can hire more workers or pay better salaries -- which means more jobs, more income and a healthier economy.

It's quite the opposite from a disaster. An HST type taxation system is better for all citizens of BC and it's the main reason that most global economies have switched away from these types of taxes to value-add taxes.

Besides, under the HST plan, Business Income taxes were raised by 2%.

 

[yammy5]

Costs the average family $350 more per year and if you're a big family that number goes up and up and up. Personally I had a small home reno done for ~25K and the HST added up to about $1750. I need to do more home repairs (bathroom, roof ect etc) but I'll hold off until this HST is extinguished. Thankfully I did the driveway before the HST was rammed down out throats. So yah, for me alone the HST has already added up to well over $2,000 in taxes. You may be the exception but the average person will pay MORE under the HST.

 

[TenMile]

Last time I checked, GST and PST were both charged on renovations. Under the HST plan today, you'd pay THE SAME $2000 in tax.

 

[sammyslabber]

I'm not holding my breath if they lower the hst to 10% lol next week i'll weigh the options...by the looks of previous elections b.c voters vote with anger ...so i'll be suprised if they vote to keep it...after that where it goes your guess is as good as mine...sammy

 

[yammy5]

Hey Jackel - The Feds haven't said if they expect us to pay it back and since the HST has already put an extra 850 million (paid by us) into the coffers that may be all we need to pay back. If the Liberals can't negotiate a deal and the Feds want the whole thing that's not a problem for this government since they spent over 1 billion on big oil subsidies and billions more on pet projects. If they can spend that sort of money then surely a few hundred million back to the Feds isn't such a stretch. It's just another fear tactic they are using to brainwash us.

Hey TenMile - check your bills! Virtually all home improvements increased by 7% due to the HST. If you were considering any home upgrades over the next couple of years, or have any friends, family or neighbours who are, they are paying a LOT MORE. SURPRISE!! That's why we are seeing growth in the cash economy - pay cash and avoid this ridiculous Liberal cash grab.

 

[alwaysfishn]

Hey Jackel - The Feds haven't said if they expect us to pay it back and since the HST has already put an extra 850 million (paid by us) into the coffers that may be all we need to pay back. If the Liberals can't negotiate a deal and the Feds want the whole thing that's not a problem for this government since they spent over 1 billion on big oil subsidies and billions more on pet projects. If they can spend that sort of money then surely a few hundred million back to the Feds isn't such a stretch. It's just another fear tactic they are using to brainwash us.

The agreement states clearly that the $1.6 billion needs to be repaid. Imagine for a moment the outcry from all the other provinces whose tax payers contributed to the $1.6 billion, expressing their concern about the BC "handout". It would also set a nice precedent for all the other provinces that don't have the HST.... They could implement the HST, get the payout and then revert back to PST! Nice loop hole.

I guess you are not aware of the deficit this province is running. Due to the last recession we are still spending more for services than we are collecting in taxes. If the HST is canned we have to not only come up with the $1.6 billion but the province needs to find (read raise taxes) another $500 million plus just to be even with where we now stand with the HST.

If we know we will have our taxes raised anyway, why would we be stupid enough to vote against the HST and give back the $1.6 billion??

Hey TenMile - check your bills! Virtually all home improvements increased by 7% due to the HST. If you were considering any home upgrades over the next couple of years, or have any friends, family or neighbours who are, they are paying a LOT MORE. SURPRISE!! That's why we are seeing growth in the cash economy - pay cash and avoid this ridiculous Liberal cash grab.

You are both right. GST was charged on the labor portion of the renovation and both pst and gst were charged on the materials. Although I have seen contractors that quoted one price which included labor and materials, then billed PST/GST on the whole thing. The argument that it increases the cash economy may or may not be true (no stats). But if a contractor takes his pay under the table, he forfeits all of the HST that he has paid on the materials.

 

[yammy5]

Alwaysfishing that's just Liberal scare tactics...don't get brainwashed so easily.

"The “Independent Panel” says the HST generated $850 million more than budgeted. Setting aside that is the biggest tax grab in history, it means government already has $850 million to repay Ottawa. BC has only received $1B, and Ottawa collected $300M more in corporate taxes under the HST than under the PST. So it’s a wash. And keeping the HST would cost British Columbians alot more than killing it – over $28 Billion in new taxes in just 10 years. Who's stupid?

Vote YES to extinguish the HST and save your province, your democracy, and your money!"

 

[yammy5]

LOL. IF you agree with this Liberal tax grab and with the fact that they have shifted the tax burden from big business to BC familes then by all means vote No. MOst BC families are stretched so thin already with taxes and bills that we can't afford it and to have it rammed down out throats with lies is like spitting in our faces. Go ahead and hand over all your hard earned cash to these liars but I'm voting yes.

 

[Bassblaster]

If this tax is such a great thing, why isn't Alberta jumping on the HST band wagon? You'd think if it were that spectacular that they'd be chomping at the bit to sign up? Hate to say it but there's a really good reason they are not. Also, while the tax makes companies more profitable and competitive, the goal of most company owners is to increase their own bottom line. If I can earn more profit and not hire more people, why would I bother? If anything I'd be looking for ways to cut the number of employees further.

Second, the government does not do anything for free. If they are willing to lower the tax to 10% it is because at 10% they are making more than they are at 12%. You do not implement a tax to make less money. You do it to generate higher revenues. Since when has the government done ANYTHING tax wise that has taken money out of their pockets?

The key is that the HST is charged to ALL products and services while the PST/GST combination is not. Speaking directly at the house reno topic, the PST was previously NOT charged on any product that added energy efficiency to a home in BC such as better windows, doors, insulation, energy efficient lighting, etc. The HST is charged on all of these items so in fact the Tax bill IS higher on many property renovations and construction.

The bottom line is the HST WILL cost us more, even at 10%, than the 12% GST/PST combination. Less tax on more products and services is still MORE TAX.

 

[yammy5]

On CFAX 10 minutes ago they just revealed that BC lost 11,000 jobs in June. There's your HST at work. The writing is on the wall people.

 

[sammyslabber]

unless the contractor didnt pay HST on the materials AF,

holmes hit the nail on the head,no bill for material no paper trail( customer pays material cost)... with all the money going underground ...mine sector should be looking pretty good af...sammy

 

[yammy5]

how can 11 000 jobs lost be directly and solely because of the HST, cmon now..did cfax say that, or is it you inference?, could it not also be because the USA market is in the crapper or because our dollar is high?, and some of those jobs are govt jobs so its not all a loss,lol..holmes*

I think you're missing the point....with the HST we were promised over 100,000 jobs over 10 years and now it's been downgraded to 24,000 jobs. Now we have lost 50,000 jobs since it's introduction and that is while other provinces are creating jobs. In June alone we lost about half the jobs that the HST was supposed to create over 10 years! You should listen to Jim Sinclair, head of the BC Labour Union ~ disgusted with the HST. I suppose my comments reflected his. No we can't blame the HST entirely but what is going on?

The HST was supposed to be a big job creator....what the hell happened?

 

[alwaysfishn]

unless the contractor didnt pay HST on the materials AF,

holmes hit the nail on the head,no bill for material no paper trail( customer pays material cost)... with all the money going underground ...mine sector should be looking pretty good af...sammy

I'm not aware of a Rona or Home Depot or Canadian Tire that will sell materials without charging HST, are you?? And if the customer buys the material, so what, they pay the HST.

 

[alwaysfishn]

I think you're missing the point....with the HST we were promised over 100,000 jobs over 10 years and now it's been downgraded to 24,000 jobs. Now we have lost 50,000 jobs since it's introduction and that is while other provinces are creating jobs. In June alone we lost about half the jobs that the HST was supposed to create over 10 years! You should listen to Jim Sinclair, head of the BC Labour Union ~ disgusted with the HST. I suppose my comments reflected his. No we can't blame the HST entirely but what is going on?

The HST was supposed to be a big job creator....what the hell happened?

You can also look at it on the basis of "How many jobs would have been lost if we didn't have the HST?" Ontario introduced HST the same time BC did and they gained 40,000 jobs in June.

The point is your argument can't be proven any more than mine can, so let's debate the HST on the basis of logic rather than throwing out numbers and trying to link them to make your point.

 

[alwaysfishn]

maybe not a retail store, but deffinately some wholesalers and little guys and lumber yards...holmes*

Not a chance Holmes! Every business has to file a tax return. When they file a tax return CRA can audit them to determine if they are paying their taxes.

But let's assume there is a small shop that is not charging HST. Where are they getting their supplies? Guaranteed somewhere along the way HST is being paid. If the business doesn't charge HST on it's sales, it cannot claim a rebate on the HST it paid.

 

[rico]

alwaysfishn - arent you gonna comment again how its illegal to promote cash deals?

It happens all the time. Think about it. If you are gonna have the roof on your house redone, you could be looking at 12000 dollars. If i tell you i can do it for 8500 cash, what would be your choice? I doubt you will say "sorry, i need to pay all that extra tax to do my part for bc and its economy, and of course, i like to help pay for all the big salary raises that the politicians voted for themselves!" I doubt it. Given the opportunity, 95% of the people will take the cash price because of the savings. It's just the way it is. If you say you don't know it, i wouldn't believe you. I understand that you won't be able to admit that though, because of your stance on the HST.

 

[Bassblaster]

I think ultimately none of us really knows what the right thing to do is. None of us is privy to the government's actual calculations and are ultimately reliant on what others are telling us be it pro HST or GST/PST. Nor are we economists. Each side has its valid points. Each side has its negatives. Which of the two is and will prove to be the better choice only time and instituting it will tell. Suffice to say that this is how government works.

Personally I think the whole affair is a joke. We are voting on keeping or eliminating a tax that we were not consulted about in the first place. We are faced with a backwards question where yes means no and no means yes. (what the hell is that?) We have been effectively divided by those that lead us to keep us separated and un-unified. In the end one group on here will be standing there saying "I told you so" and that is about it.

As for getting money to properly fund programs like education and health care, How about starting by firing the idiot making over a million a year in salary for sinking BC Ferries and stripping him of the $350 thousand a year pension he will get for doing a ****** job. I'm afraid until the day comes that governments as we know them collapse so there is no more corruption and glad-handing to friends and relatives, no more exorbitant pensions for crap performance, and no taxes due to collapse, we aren't going to change where priorities lye at the higher levels. We are just sheep who's role is to follow orders and pay taxes so rich people can get richer.