HST or PST check out this link..too long for me to post

[alwaysfishn]

"Maybe this is why the anti-HST crowd is voting against the HST..... they don't own a calculator!!"

My point is, that with a 12% GST/PST, i still only pay 7% tax on a 20,000 truck. You cant argue that, it is FACT.


"Isn't there something in the forum rules against promoting illegal activities? "

I wasn't promoting any illegal activities at all. Just merely making a point, but I guess you pro-HST guys don't like that argument. My guess is because 1- its true and you know it, and 2 - there is no defense to that, so you would rather not have it posted.
I find it kind of amusing that as soon as valid, real life points are brought up, you have nothing except for "HST is good for us."

How about this...... I am going to sell you my boat. It's worth $5000 dollars, not a penny more. I would like you to buy it off me for $5700, because if you did, that would be good for me! Does that make any sense? Why would you go for that?
That's my point. Why would I vote for HST, its the same thing.

Under the PST system you got a 5% GST break only if you bought the vehicle privately. If you bought the vehicle from any business you had to pay both PST and GST on the purchase.

In my opinion that system was totally unfair! Why should you get a tax advantage over someone that buys their used vehicle from a legitimate business. Technically the person selling you that vehicle privately was required to pay the full taxes (called self-declaration of taxes), but of course that was impossible to enforce. The HST closes that loop hole and that is the fair thing to do. Under the 10% HST instead of paying 7% you will pay 10%, just like everybody else.

As far as selling me your boat, I don't understand what your point is.

 

[rico]

I only ever buy used vehicles, because i cant afford a new one. So the change to the HST is huge for me in that area.

"As far as selling me your boat, I don't understand what your point is."

I was just using the boat thing as an example. It could have been anything. I just used a boat because it is relevant to this forum. My point was, that I was paying a lower amount for something. Now I am asked to pay a higher amount, and I am supposed to be okay with that because someone tells me its 'good for me'. My wages dont go up, so where does the extra money keep coming from?

 

[alwaysfishn]

I only ever buy used vehicles, because i cant afford a new one. So the change to the HST is huge for me in that area.

"As far as selling me your boat, I don't understand what your point is."

I was just using the boat thing as an example. It could have been anything. I just used a boat because it is relevant to this forum. My point was, that I was paying a lower amount for something. Now I am asked to pay a higher amount, and I am supposed to be okay with that because someone tells me its 'good for me'. My wages dont go up, so where does the extra money keep coming from?

I hear you and agree. If society stopped demanding better health care and education, governments wouldn't need to charge us so many taxes.

 

[Steelhead S2]

Shouldn't you be fishn?

 

[Rockfish]

The HST and for that matter the GST are both mechanisms by which the tax burdon was shifted off of the corporate world and those at the very high end of income and on to the middle class. I will be voting to get rid of the HST because it is in my best financial interest to do so as it is for most British Columbians. I would also like the GST gone and a return to the much fairer and balanced tax systems we had in place before the GST - but good luck pulling that off.

When the GST was forced on us (I remember when no services were taxed) we were told that the corporations and the very wealthy just needed a bigger cut of the pie and the rest of us needed to pay for it. In exchange a small percentage of their new found gains would trickle down to the little people by way of lower prices and the creation of more jobs. The prices of course actually went up but they did keep their word on creating a lot of new jobs. Unfortunately they created them in India, China and South Korea. They are worried now; not just about the HST being extinguished but about a middle class tax revolt. They want to make sure the tax burden disproportionately comes out of our pockets, not theirs. That is why they are spending untold amounts of cash in ads to lie to us about the HST.

Let’s get rid of the HST, and take a hard look at the GST and tax policy in general in this country. There is something fundamentally wrong with a country that allows expensive alcohol soaked $1000.00 lunches and golf club memberships to be written off as business expenses, but hard working individuals building houses can’t write off their paper bagged baloney sandwich.

 

[Steelhead S2]

Well said Rockfish. During the provincial NDP leadership race, John Horgan said he would undertake a complete review of the BC tax system. Regardless of what one thinks of the source, this sounds like a fantastic idea to me, both on the provincial and federal level. Fiddling with the taxation system with little amendments here and there, and introducing new taxes beside old ones makes for a very complex system that is most definitely out of whack. An audit of the tax system would be a great first step to really figure out where $ comes from, where it goes, who's over taxed, who's undertaxed, and which interests are really being furthered by our current regime.

 

[Labman2]

Well Rico i am the opposite of you. Self employed,and need dependable transportation for my work. I buy a new truck every 4 years. you do the math, $70,000 for my last truck, bought last month. get to claim all the HST, so how much money did that save me????? Old system only get to claim the 5% HST this is huge money to my bottom line. Anywhere in my business where I paid PST I ate 100% of it, now it is claimed in the HST. So lets pull the HST, pay back the 1.1 BILLION to the feds and retool the papertrail, I believe the overall cost is 3 BILLION dollars, where do you think the govt. will get their money, I say Rico I think you better be prepared to pay much higher personel taxes which will dwarf what you think the HST is costing you. Death and taxes peolpe the only two forsure things in life!

AND the truck is used 100% for work too I'll wager!!!!!!!!!

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Perfect example Jackel of why the HST is good...plus should you need an extra hand, you can now hire him with the savings you just made from the lack of PST payment

 

[profisher]

Going back to the GST/PST will not be status quo. Don't think for a minute that if the vote goes that way that the same old rules from before will apply. You are fooling yourself if you don't think that all the present services and products that became taxable under HST won't be changed to be taxable under the reintroduced GST/PST. You will pay either way I'll bet on it. Where else are they going to get the money to pay back the feds? There is nothing in the referendum from preventing them from changing the old system to suite their needs. The referendum is only about the choice of collecting one tax or two taxes.

 

[Lipripper]

Going back to the GST/PST will not be status quo. Don't think for a minute that if the vote goes that way that the same old rules from before will apply. You are fooling yourself if you don't think that all the present services and products that became taxable under HST won't be changed to be taxable under the reintroduced GST/PST. You will pay either way I'll bet on it. Where else are they going to get the money to pay back the feds? There is nothing in the referendum from preventing them from changing the old system to suite their needs. The referendum is only about the choice of collecting one tax or two taxes.

I agree Dbl R
I don't own a business nor really notice the difference with the HST..... For me it really doesn't matter if gas is 109 or 129..... for the pennies it saves I am not going to whine.
As for the bribe we got for switching...... I have heard that A) We didn't get it all, B) The income generated off this revenue neutral tax would damn near offset the difference.

I am on the fence with this one.... All I can see is that there is still a lot of resentment over the way it was implemented. As for what it saves for some.... good, but to say that it cost me and extra few hundred bucks a year (for average Joe).... its like spilled milk?

Either way the Gov will jam you for the $$ no matter what its called. It is unfortunate that it funds their pensions and expense accounts but whether its the PST/GST or the HST it isn't gunna be much different??

 

[Rockfish]

Going back to the GST/PST will not be status quo. Don't think for a minute that if the vote goes that way that the same old rules from before will apply. You are fooling yourself if you don't think that all the present services and products that became taxable under HST won't be changed to be taxable under the reintroduced GST/PST. You will pay either way I'll bet on it. Where else are they going to get the money to pay back the feds? There is nothing in the referendum from preventing them from changing the old system to suite their needs. The referendum is only about the choice of collecting one tax or two taxes.

Sure they can try turning the PST into the HST in terms of exemptions, but remember they already have a million pizzed off voters who will be chomping at the bit waiting for the upcoming election if they do so. How about getting rid of all the tax loop holes and welfare programs for billionaires. Do that and we won’t need the HST or the GST and would have more than sufficient tax dollars for health care and education.

Remember once it is in place it will only go up. I heard the leader of the green party saying 10 % is not sufficient. How does 15 % HST sound to you, how about 20%. Get rid of the HST now and then hold them accountable.

 

[island idiots]

I got my HST voting package in the mail and I can't wait to vote yes to get rid of the tax.

Not because of money. I do not care if it saves me money or cost me money. What I care about is sending a message to every political party, that if you decieve the voters and bring in a tax without consultation with the electorate, you will suffer the consequences. IF forcing them to withdraw the tax cost me money so be it.
I can't wait for the next election so I can help send Crusty the Clown and her helpers to the opposition.
Its time for taxation with representation!

 

[scott craven]

I sense a locked thread coming up

 

[alwaysfishn]

I sense a locked thread coming up

You may be right..

It's really too bad. I've always believed that the value of this type of forum is that folks can put out intelligent, thought out arguments with or without some supporting references. This allows someone with a somewhat open mind the opportunity to make their own mind up about the issue.

When someone comes on a forum and tries to pound their point of view into anyone that opposes their view, they probably accomplish the opposite.

Look over my posts. What I have attempted to do is provide some solid points as to why the HST is a better taxation system than the PST. Whether everyone agrees or not doesn't matter. What matters is that everyone marks their ballot with a full understanding of the pros and cons of the HST.

It seems their are 2 schools of thoughts in the anti-HST group:

1) The "I don't like Campbell, Campbell introduced the HST, therefore I don't like the HST. There is no way they will change their minds. However, I question their decision making process.

2) The next group takes the approach "The HST is costing me more money, therefore I don't like the HST. I think this group should think about the fact that if the government needs more money they will get it from you whether the HST remains or gets cancelled. It would be unfortunate if the HST was cancelled and the PST was changed to remove many of the exemptions in order to raise more revenue. THe end result would be a return to a bad PST system and everyone still paying more sales tax.

I support the HST because its a better tax system than the PST. Yes it costs me more, yes I don't like the way it was introduced. But I am willing to look past this because through my study of the HST I am convinced it is the right tax system for BC for all the reasons I have already listed.

 

[profisher]

If your voting yes to send the political parties a message for the way the tax was introduced...wouldn't you send THAT message at election time? Why vote in a manner that punishes yourself...because someone will be paying back the feds..and like I said earlier the PST will be modified to collect the tax that the HST is now bringing in. Or income taxes will go up to make up for it. Government wastes money no doubt about it (only need to look at McTavish Rd overpass) but this vote (either way) that won't change a thing. A complete overhaul is required.

 

[Highliner]

Inflation rates are a comparison of a basket of goods priced today, versus the price of that same basket of goods a year ago.

It has nothing to do with what people are spending.

I'm still not sure which side of the fence I reside, but this statement actually couldn't be further from the truth. Inflation is a direct result of the level of spending. Basic supply and demand principles at work.

 

[alwaysfishn]

Inflation rates are a comparison of a basket of goods priced today, versus the price of that same basket of goods a year ago.

It has nothing to do with what people are spending.

Let's put this back in context.....

My comment was in response to Islandgirl's statement that BC has the: "Second lowest inflation rate because no one is spending.. No one can afford to spend since we are now paying ANOTHER TAX. That money must come from the family budget, the gas bill, eating out etc. the discretionary income."

To put this in perspective the chart below compares the 2010 CPI/inflation to GDP/real spending. Logic suggests that if BC's inflation is second lowest as a result of lower spending then BC's real spending should also be second lowest.

As the chart shows BC's GDP is not the second lowest, it is actually 3rd highest. Alberta has the lowest CPI/inflation but it's GDP is the 4th highest.

I believe my point that inflation has nothing to do with spending, in this context, is valid.

 

[Gunsmith]

Let's put this back in context.....

My comment was in response to Islandgirl's statement that BC has the: "Second lowest inflation rate because no one is spending.. No one can afford to spend since we are now paying ANOTHER TAX. That money must come from the family budget, the gas bill, eating out etc. the discretionary income."

To put this in perspective the chart below compares the 2010 CPI/inflation to GDP/real spending. Logic suggests that if BC's inflation is second lowest as a result of lower spending then BC's real spending should also be second lowest.

As the chart shows BC's GDP is not the second lowest, it is actually 3rd highest. Alberta has the lowest CPI/inflation but it's GDP is the 4th highest.

I believe my point that inflation has nothing to do with spending, in this context, is valid.

Hmmm must be all the marijuana coming from BC. There is no oil sands and all logs are sold whole to china what else is the domestic product?

 

[sammyslabber]

Hmmm must be all the marijuana coming from BC. There is no oil sands and all logs are sold whole to china what else is the domestic product?

Yep,that pretty much sums it up g.s...by the looks of (af;f4a) ideas there's something else in their pipe besides weed...maybe we can export them to china...sammy

 

[alwaysfishn]

Hmmm must be all the marijuana coming from BC. There is no oil sands and all logs are sold whole to china what else is the domestic product?

Actually marijuana wouldn't be part of the GDP, last I checked they were having a difficult time tracking the sales....

Imagine the size of our GDP if they could?