Its sad that some think closing a herring fishery will lead to sports fishing restrictions, how would leaving more forage for salmon cause salmon fishing to close. I personally don't want to close everything down just the useless fisheries that harm the important fisheries. You may be happy with whats left of the fishery but what if the fishery could improve by not catching our targets food source. It might seem insignificant to you however an extra 20% biomass left in the water could help to restore herring along the coast building their numbers rather than keeping them in a depressed state by not allowing the biomass to grow. This is the same issue with salmon stocks if we continue to keep them at current baselines and changing the baselines to reflect the lower current state we will watch numbers continue to slide to unsustainable numbers. Salmon and herring alike cant survive for long on low numbers they require abundance to be resilient to the challenges they face from nature let alone the challenges from humans. The status quo right now wont insure my children or anyone else's have a fishery in the future to enjoy, but maybe that doesn't matter to some, its more important to get theirs and blame natural predators that have coexisted for thousands of years with salmon.
Herring Fishery
- Thread starter Hardy Guy
- Start date
Who decides which fisheries are useless and which are important?................................................................................................................ you?
When I was a kid harbour seals were a rare sight, killer whales were seen with some regularity. Sea lions, gray and humpback whales and porpoises were never seen off Nanaimo. Killer whales are still in about the same abundance while the rest have increased dramatically. You don't get increases at the top of the food chain if there is not enough biomass to sustain them.
Obviously restricting the catch of herring will not harm the food chain going forward. However, the reasoning behind the decision is NOT based on science but rather a response to political pressure. What if the next bout of political pressure is focused on one of your "important" fisheries? How can you, or anybody else mount a credible response to something that is done on a political whim especially when you have already set the bar that this process is ok?
Derby
Crew Member
I think the point you are missing is how DFO manages the fisheries. As trudeau likes to say DFO will make the best decision based on science not sure when anyone has seen much based on science the last 6 years?? The land scape has change once he was elected in as everything is comes from Ottawa now & for herring it was pretty much the last fishery that was be regulated on the based on the best science available. Now it seems to be based on ENGO and what they think is best. Herring been reduced by 10 % and we will see if there is much improvement or not. I'm sure we will see a much improved whale population seal & seal lion population & hake ect ect.. Hmmm speaking of hake ! more oppurtunity for more trawl fisheries to remove the surplus perhaps Ottawa will allow even more unregulated super trawlers in to fish the BC coast to catch those fish..oh crap more chinook bye catch and the wheel spins around.& around...
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In my opinion yes i get to decide which fisheries are useless. Not sure when you were a kid however seals and whales were hunted to near extinction up until the late 60's and what you are seeing is a natural rebound without the pressure of being hunted. The biomass in the water is unknown there is not enough scientific data to say anything credible just short term surveys without proper historical baselines. This is not a political issue but like climate change and other issues one side cant help but make it one. The science says herring are critical to salmon, any argument in favor of catching them is merely economical thus only a political issue with no actual benefit to salmon. Tell me how this herring fishery aside from providing some unnecessary bait helps the sports fishers of bc.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
if there was a coast wide herring fishery that was taking 20% of the biomass then I could get on bord with what you are selling.
but we are talking 20% of the spawning biomass with an older age class of females that have eggs to the target ripness in a pretty small area in the northern SOG.
they don’t open the fishery on the spawning unless it meets certain criteria. Otherwise it’s not worth it for the fishermen and that’s why some years they harvest far below the 20% they are allocated.
they have a test boat that goes out and targets different spawns. Located by air or by boat. Sometimes the spawns are washed out and over before they even get sampled.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I’m not saying that the roe fishery is some how more important then what the herring provide to to ecosystem.
I just don’t think there is much to gain by restricting it. Then of course what it means for overall DFO management and what it’s signalling.
there is also zero accountability for when we close fishery’s then nothing changes and nothing gets reopened.
then of course there is all the behind the scene changes and things that are on the horizon , like MPA and allocations future negotiators.
with the new herring restrictions might be a good location to put in an MPA and close it to all but native harvesting.
I guess I’m just looking at it more then the simplistic terms of closing commercial fishing = more herring = more chinook. Of which is more of a hypothesis at this point then a sure thing.
I just don’t think there is much to gain by restricting it. Then of course what it means for overall DFO management and what it’s signalling.
there is also zero accountability for when we close fishery’s then nothing changes and nothing gets reopened.
then of course there is all the behind the scene changes and things that are on the horizon , like MPA and allocations future negotiators.
with the new herring restrictions might be a good location to put in an MPA and close it to all but native harvesting.
I guess I’m just looking at it more then the simplistic terms of closing commercial fishing = more herring = more chinook. Of which is more of a hypothesis at this point then a sure thing.
Derby
Crew Member
As sport fisherman we do have skin in the game we also have a right to determine fisheries and have imput thru process in these fisheries! If you bother to take a look I believe the SFAB suggested a 5% reduction in the GS herring fishery as a safety buffer on the side of conservation. If we dont use best science for making the decisions for managing are fisheries then all is done.. For me I would much rather we use the best science available to make a decision rather then a warm fuzzy feeling science because one thinks it should be total closed so i feel better.. Perhaps you should take a look at this fishery? now this one feeds everything pretty all ocean critters . Food for thought?
Category(s):
COMMERCIAL - Invertebrates: Euphausiidstyle='mso-special-character:line-break'>
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN1366-COMMERCIAL - Invertebrates: Euphausiids - South Coast - Portions of Areas 12, 13, 15 and 16 - Opening January 5, 2022
Open 12:00 hours January 05, 2022 until 23:59 hours, March 31, 2022 to commercial fishing for Euphausiids, by plankton trawl gear, in the following Subareas:
1. Knight Inlet: Subareas 12-28 to 12-34 - quota 75 tonnes
2. Bute Inlet: Subareas 13-18 to 13-22 - quota 55 tonnes
3. Homfray-Lewis-Pryce Channels: Subarea 15-5 – quota 40 tonnes
4. Toba Inlet: Subarea 15-6 - quota 20 tonnes
5. Jervis Inlet: Subareas 16-11 to 16-15 – 85 tonnes
Variation Order No. 2022-002 in effect.
style='mso-tab-count:1'>
Note: Closures will be implemented before March 31, 2022 as quotas are achieved.
Refer to 2018/2022 Euphausiid Integrated Fishery Management Plan and the 2018/2022 Commercial Harvest Plan, for the detailed fishing plan, closed area descriptions, and contact numbers for further informa¬tion.
Positional information is to be recorded in the validation and harvest logbook prior to or as the net is set by condition of licence.
Fishers are advised that the industry funded hail and dockside validation program initiated in 1997 will be in effect for the 2022 season, the details of this program are described in the commercial fishing plan. A Nil report must be submitted to the DFO Shellfish Data Unit for licence renewal even if no fishing had occurred.
Fishers are reminded the pre-licence application requirement will be continued for 2022. All licence applications for a Z-F category licence must be accompanied by a letter from the Krill Trawlers Association (KTA) or their designate, certifying that arrangements have been made with a DFO Observer or service bureau, to provide services required by the 2022 conditions of licence. Alternately, licence holders choosing a service bureau independent of the KTA will require a letter identifying the service bureau they have hired, and confirming that they can meet the 2022 conditions of licence through this arrangement.
Report suspicious activity or violations by email at href="mailto:DFO.ORR-ONS.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca">DFO.ORR-ONS.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca or by calling the 24-hour, toll-free Observe, Record, and Report line at 1-800-465-4336 or 604-607-4186 in greater Vancouver.
The 24-hour, toll-free information line for fishery notices regarding openings and closures is 1-866-431-3474 or 604-666-2828 in greater Vancouver.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Jenny Smith (236) 330-2963
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN1366
Sent December 29, 2021 at 10:57
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If you have any questions, please contact us via e-mail to: href="mailto:DFO.PACOpsCentre-CentredesOpsPAC.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca">DFO.PACOpsCentre-CentredesOpsPAC.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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One thing I have found in the last two years, debating people that are anti vaxers is a waste of time. You sir sound like one of those people so I am out.
searun
Well-Known Member
IMO sorting out how we approach managing herring is about finding a balance between human harvest, ecosystem prey requirements, and the sustainability of the stock. A significant challenge to achieving that balance is navigating various sector influencers (and their biases) that shape human management actions. I believe there is ecosystem utility in allowing a careful harvest of herring (and other species). Closing all fisheries isn't the answer. Humans have played an important role within the ecosystem long before European settlement, so as we go forward I think it is important to account for all forms of historic harvest (natural and human) and the complicated inter-relationships between various ecosystem interactions and shape our fisheries management to achieve that careful balance.
One thing I have found over the last 15 years debating other "sports fisherman" is that some people like to ignore whats happening or just don't have a clue but still think they know everything. I raised alarms years ago about steelhead populations on vancouver island and every comment back was fishing is great you're a jackass and we all know how that turned out fishing wasn't great and the doubt cast by uninformed people led to the collapse being a surprise to many. Its wasn't to me because I have first hand knowledge of the situation and understand that historical numbers are important not just the year before as a baseline. All those guys that came from all over to once a year wet a line and be an expert have all disappeared along with the steelhead. So I'm sorry if you cant handle a debate that is back and forth with me responding with answers not just diversions such as your side likes to use. Salmon will end up with the same fate as steelhead if we cant even acknowledge they are in serious trouble to begin with but i guess just acknowledging it is too much for some people to not get their panties in a knot and run away when they cant handle a discussion.
not sure why the closing everything point keeps coming up, who is saying close everything. If we were to look at input returns on a fishery that removes food from a fishery that is far more important economically then isn't it just obvious, just based on economics. Yeah sure humans played a role before europeans they removed eggs from seaweed, they killed only the sea otters they needed got the odd whale killed a few seals around their villages and used weirs and spears to catch salmon in terminal areas where they could know if returns were strong or not. Today with a small fraction of biomass of any of those creatures we kill to get eggs we net to get salmon regardless of whether it is at the terminal where we know runs are strong and at terminal areas even when we know runs aren't strong and others are nearly extinct. We farm fish in every little nook regardless of whether salmon runs are healthy in the area, we pollute, drive freighters through sensitive areas have vast networks of people spoon feeding information to anyone with a computer boat dashes look like a command station with screens all over and technology oh yeah an 425 hp outboards and 30 plus foot boats with shocks on their seats etc, etc, etc. So with great power comes great responsibility but where is the responsibility it existed before europeans showed up however has yet to return to dfo or any provincial ministry reponsible for continuing to make things harder for natural inhabitants of our province. So under those conditions how can we responsibly manage much of anything at this point. If you're well starts running out you conserve and wait for it to fill back up you don't just keep using it as the same pace as when it was full or it runs out and you dont survive long enough to see it fill back up. Take a look at the numbers of fish coming out of the central coast. https://thenarwhal.ca/bc-salmon-central-coast-2021-run/
searun
Well-Known Member
@steeler - I think it’s disingenuous to suggest that there aren’t individuals and organizations openly advocating we close everything- you dont need to look very far to find them! My point was and is that the art of good management is careful consideration to find a balance - and some herring harvest is a perfectly reasonable objective.
I think its disingenuous to imply that closing one fishery means closing them all. Fisheries management doesn't need to be fair all the time it only needs to do what is best for the resources all the time. If 20% more herring were left in the biomass over 5 years it would double the population at minimum if no exponential growth was seen, when the more valuable resource in salmon would benefit greatly. Making tough decisions is the responsibility of good management the art of good management only happens with healthy resources to manage.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Your selling something that is just simply not true
G
gone fishin
Guest
This is just the opinion of a long time supporter of the herring fishery and I might add of Fish Farms
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
I am so glad fish farms was mentioned. Sort of knew what this was about in first place by the posts. But glad it was said. Now it becomes way more clear.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
no it’s math, if you cut 20% fishing out you get a 20% bump in the year cut but every year after that it’s based on natural recruitment. You don’t get 20% increase every of the following years.
that’s just looking at it in the most basic ways as well. Let alone in complex ecosystem of up and downs.
like the fact they don’t harvest Juvenile herring. They only harvest on the spawning biomas, they don’t harvest every spawn location, they were only harvesting in northern SOG ect ect ect
I could also care less if they get rid of the herring fishery or fish farms my life wouldn’t change in any way.
what concerns me if the reasoning and forces behind thoes changes and what it means for the management of all fisheries.
do you really think it’s a coincidence that the recreational prawn, chinook and other restrictions are all happening at the same time they are shutting down fish farms and herring fishery.
it’s all part of the same forces
Derby
Crew Member
Ian is that you?
G
gone fishin
Guest
Don't mean to be argumentative as we all have our opinions, and they can vary greatly based on our own personal experience and circumstances.
Do you think the answer to the concern all of us have about more shutdowns and restrictions in the Sport Fishing industry is to ignore the impact of the Herring Roe Fishery and allow it to continue, grow or expand?
Let’s just imagine for a second that the Herring Roe Fishery is allowed to carry on or grow in the name of science or whatever other reason you choose to believe.
How will that help the Sport Fishing industry and lead to fewer shutdowns and restrictions?
There is a battle to be fought, but the outcome of the Herring Roe Fishery battle will not change how DFO or our government see Sport Fishermen and whatever future restrictions that we may have imposed upon us!
One thing we know for sure. The Herring Roe Fishery has been cut in half.
Will it solve all the problems that marine life who depend on Herring face , no, but it is a step in the right direction!
Happy New Year everyone.
Do you think the answer to the concern all of us have about more shutdowns and restrictions in the Sport Fishing industry is to ignore the impact of the Herring Roe Fishery and allow it to continue, grow or expand?
Let’s just imagine for a second that the Herring Roe Fishery is allowed to carry on or grow in the name of science or whatever other reason you choose to believe.
How will that help the Sport Fishing industry and lead to fewer shutdowns and restrictions?
There is a battle to be fought, but the outcome of the Herring Roe Fishery battle will not change how DFO or our government see Sport Fishermen and whatever future restrictions that we may have imposed upon us!
One thing we know for sure. The Herring Roe Fishery has been cut in half.
Will it solve all the problems that marine life who depend on Herring face , no, but it is a step in the right direction!
Happy New Year everyone.
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