HALIBUT CLOSURE

[scott craven]

I think they are relying on DFO's goodwill towards the recreational fisherman.
I'm sure the commercial sector wouldn't mind giving up another 10% ?

 

[casper5280]

This was posted before but bares repeating:
You have to wonder who the Brain Surgeon was who came up with the plan to gift quota to commercial interests and the lack of requirements attached to that gift. It would appear the idea was to create some stability for small Mom and Pop fishing operations making it easier for them to continue living the lifestyle of small business owners. Sadly for the most part that was a complete and utter failure as is evidenced in the number of these people who no longer fish and instead lease out the original gift to large operations. In essence an Annuity in Perpetuity, a life long gift from the people of Canada that can be willed to their children when they pass on. Very generous of us is it not?

Why there was no finite time limit on this gift,or a caveat that if not fished by the original recipient and that at the very least, on their passing, it would revert back to DFO is mind boggling. So now we have a government who has for decades essentially paid a chunk of cash to people to sit at home (familiar refrain?) and a group of people who have learned to live with the "gift that just keeps giving".

So what are the options.
1) Inform quota holders that unless they fish, the quota is gone, suspend leasing and redistribute through DFO to new commercial and rec fishermen.
2) Begin a process for non fishers whereby the quota is reduced annually by a set percentage and redistributed,to let them get used to working for their money
3) On the death of original holder, quota reverts back to DFO
4) All quota regardless of whether fished or not is leased for a set period of time, after which time it may reduced, renewed or canceled by DFO

I suspect 1, the outright cancellation will never happen and is perhaps harsh now that people are used to this extra income. But to be fair the government has clawed back benefits from its own retirees , raised retirement age and don't get me started on the private sector, all of who contributed to their retirement,so an adjustment of a gift annuity isn't unreasonable.

 

[ziggy]

I think they are relying on DFO's goodwill towards the recreational fisherman.
I'm sure the commercial sector wouldn't mind giving up another 10% ?

We could always offer to pay them the same amount that the original quota holders paid for it! Lol

 

[Jencourt]

Has anyone Ever looked at the historical condition of stocks directly associated with ITQ . I remember reading that world wide that history has showed elevated level of decrease amongst species once being incorporated into ITQ’s. Ya I know we Have the IPHC for Halibut. Yet stocks are doing what they are and prices keep going up and that money keeps getting funneled to less and less people.

Good thing we have economists designing resource management.

 

[seadna]

We could always offer to pay them the same amount that the original quota holders paid for it! Lol

Hell - pay them triple what they paid for it. ;-)

 

[Derby]

quota is currently worth some where around 140 a lb

 

[ziggy]

Wow pretty good return for something you originally paid zip for! That's why we should only pay them what they originally paid for it.

What a scam, a lifetime pension you can gift to your kids. People think politicians have a gold plated plan and they probably do, but even theirs can't be passed on to their survivors in perpetuity !

 

[ryanb]

The problem is that for many of today's quota holders there was no gift. Most have paid top dollar to BUY the quota they now HOLD, so that makes it very problematic to arbitrarily reduce or remove.

 

[ziggy]

The problem is that for many of today's quota holders there was no gift. Most have paid top dollar to BUY the quota they now HOLD, so that makes it very problematic to arbitrarily reduce or remove.

Perhaps, but if the government were to immediately ban any further sales of gifted quota that would be a good start. Would be interesting to see what % that is?Let the original owners even keep it until they pass on. In addition while I have little sympathy for the large companies that have purchased quota, I'm sure they could be given a set period, say ten years before the had to surrender the quota they purchased back to the people of Canada

I doubt there are many small operators who are buying quota at 140 a pound! The majority are lucky if the can afford to lease let alone buy(That is a whole other problem for young fishers trying to break into the industry)! At any rate it's time for the government to take action. The original quota will just continue to migrate to the Jimmy Pattisons as they are the only ones who can afford it. Eventually you will have a monopoly at the expense of the people of Canada and they will all sitting around asking ourselves "how the f. did that happen". To which the government will reply " well it's too hard to change now"

 

[Jencourt]

Not

The problem is that for many of today's quota holders there was no gift. Most have paid top dollar to BUY the quota they now HOLD, so that makes it very problematic to arbitrarily reduce or remove.

Not problematic at all. THEY DO NOT OWN IT. Malcolm case and the court of appeals ruled that the allocation of TAC falls 100% under the discretion of DFO. Also that there is no requirement for compensation. Sounds crappy to say out loud but those are the facts. Maybe they should look to those who sold what they did not own for providing compensation.

So what’s the real question to ask? Maybe it would be “Is DFO following their mandate by allocating 85% of the annual exploitable resource to the commercial sector?” Or, would it not be “better use by Canadians for Canadians” to allocate more to the recreational fishing sector?

By my thinking I would say that since the introduction of ITQ to Halibut DFO is not even making sure that the 85% remains in the hands of Canadians. That for Damn sure does not sound like they are following their mandate.

 

[halimark]

Thanks Jencourt. Maybe a court case against DFO would be an option? Who knows but a crippling unannounced closure, less fish, smaller size or shorter season hurts us all as well as the economy we provide for.

Sad to say I know someone who inherited TAC, they do not fish, they do own a boat and receive funds from their TAC. Very nice house they live in. I just thought that back east the courts said that fish are public property??

HM

 

[ILHG]

How did we get an increase the last time?

 

[IronNoggin]

... I just thought that back east the courts said that fish are public property??

DFO plays different games on different coasts. On the east coast what has been allowed to develop here with the halibut is explicitly Illegal. Quota MUST be in the hands of those who fish, and NOT in the hands of corporations, conglomerates, or leasing owners. Fish it or lose it - Period.

Of course we all understand the exact opposite is applied here on the West Coast.
Many have openly wondered the "why" a Federal Ministry applies such directly opposing policies between the two. DFO itself has never produced anything like an answer...

Sad situation...

Cheers,
Nog

 

[halimark]

I do not understand the "how" that could happen Nog, but its not a surprise with all the craziness that's currently going on in our great country.

HM

 

[OldBlackDog]

So, knowing what has been said so far, what is your guess for 2018 regulations for butts?
Think they will be open before June 1 st?
Think you will be allowed 2 in possession?
Think it will be closed by Aug. 31st?

 

[Jencourt]

So, knowing what has been said so far, what is your guess for 2018 regulations for butts?
Think they will be open before June 1 st?
Think you will be allowed 2 in possession?
Think it will be closed by Aug. 31st?

I think I will wait till IPHC gives the magic number before I start to speculate. Until then it is like Dave said . More questions than answers?

 

[halimark]

I am not planning any tidal water fishing days, trips in 2018 until proper announcements are made. I have a bad feeling of reduced opportunity this coming year. Maybe more time in the tinny looking for trout and bass?

HM

 

[ILHG]

If we do not get more TAC, then I would recommend getting your Halibut early in the season. Folks who were burnt wont let it happen again to them.

If we don't get more TAC it could be a shorter season.. (unless they reduce daily & possession limits)

 

[Derby]

This is what we know for sure as of today: we will have a halibut season so we will be able to fish..let our folks at the IPHC do there jobs.. After that process & Canada has received the hali numbers for 2018 only then the hali committee can go to work.... we have been able to change a few things in dealing with DFO regarding hali for 2018 year that should help us out.............

 

[SerengetiGuide]

This is what we know for sure as of today: we will have a halibut season so we will be able to fish..let our folks at the IPHC do there jobs.. After that process & Canada has received the hali numbers for 2018 only then the hali committee can go to work.... we have been able to change a few things in dealing with DFO regarding hali for 2018 year that should help us out.............

Does that include getting us 20+% of the tac?