Halibut anchoring etc

[trophywife]

have you ever been hung up while trying to use the windlass? down right scary to me even in calm water.. pulling the bow down on a even a calm swell is dangerous..!!!

the retrieving part is where this seems to me , very wrong.

i pulled a guys anchor off for him 5 years ago after he almost rolled his boat over and had huge stress cracks in nice shiny glassed pulpit.

32' bayliner, he was using his windlass and it was sucking his bow down with every swell as now he was directly overtop of his stuck anchor. he tried backing it off, used reverse and almost rolled it!

 

[ziggy]

The only thing that might be an issue, heavy on the might, is that you are now running a line that potentially can come under a fair bit of tension, down the length of your boat. I also wonder if the pivot point might change when under tension? Using the other method, the line slips forward to the bow (pivot point)while in your method the line is still tied off astern and i assume passed through the bow fairlead? Will that have an effect?
Maybe Tug Captain can chime in? I'm sure there is a reason a tug has bits for and aft( I appreciate we are talking significantly more strain). But hey give her a go on a calm day with light current and your trusty knife in hand. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Let us know how it works.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Trophywife I absolutely have been hung up while anchored with a windless both on the ocean boat and river boat and I know exactly the power of them. We had my jet boat doing a head stand in the canyon of the Fraser river while trying to pull out an anchor with my winless. That is why I welded the thin slide bar on the river anchor and that's what I'm going to do to the ocean anchor as I already wrote earlier, the slide bar breaks the anchor rope free far before you pull your boat into the water. That's what they are for. And also as I mentioned a few times I am putting several quick releases a on the anchor rope. I can unhook my anchor line from the windless anytime I want. Please guys read all the text...no issue with the windless pull up. Several safety methods used to make that a non issue.

Thank you ziggy I thought about that also but that's why I am still having the anchor rope come up under the bow anchor roller then down the side of the pilot house to fish deck. All the tension point will still be at the most emediate bow point and not at the fish deck. The anchor line only bipasses the windless but not the bow roller.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Yes hambone just one time after anchor is set and one when leaving.
I will have that bow to stern like set in place already with quick releases on both ends.
That's why I was trying to be clear that my boat is a pilot house with a side walkway and railings and have a large walk on bow area fully railed all the way around the bow.
A good system for safer bows but not for boats with hard or unsafe access to the bow.

 

[trophywife]

Trophywife I absolutely have been hung up while anchored with a windless both on the ocean boat and river boat and I know exactly the power of them. We had my jet boat doing a head stand in the canyon of the Fraser river while trying to pull out an anchor with my winless. That is why I welded the thin slide bar on the river anchor and that's what I'm going to do to the ocean anchor as I already wrote earlier, the slide bar breaks the anchor rope free far before you pull your boat into the water. That's what they are for. And also as I mentioned a few times I am putting several quick releases a on the anchor rope. I can unhook my anchor line from the windless anytime I want. Please guys read all the text...no issue with the windless pull up. Several safety methods used to make that a non issue.

Thank you ziggy I thought about that also but that's why I am still having the anchor rope come up under the bow anchor roller then down the side of the pilot house to fish deck. All the tension point will still be at the most emediate bow point and not at the fish deck. The anchor line only bipasses the windless but not the bow roller.

i have read your post twice and still firmly believe pulling from your bow is nuts. one wave or misjudged swell and yer dead.. carry on...

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Ya I know explaining it in writing is a lot better with pics for sure. I will take pics.
Hambone the slide bar is where the anchor chain gets attached to. When you lower or pull your anchor the chain is at the front of your anchor. When you get hung up you move your boat to the opposite side of the anchor and pull which will slide the chain down the anchor to the opposite side and pull it out. If the tension is too hard and too stuck the thinner slide bar will break and you will get your chain and ropen back leavin your anchor.

At the bow there is only one connection to make not several. Unclip from windless and onto stern rope that's right there next to windless. I've been on my bow lots of times off shore in Tofino in massive rollers. No issue.
And besides that I just thought of an even safer way to clip on and off my windless....my cuddy hatch is right there so all I have to do is pop my head up the cuddy hatch and snap the anchor line onto stern line. No need to go on the bow actually.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Trophywife if the water conditions were that bad only an idiot would try to power pull an anchor. Un clip it, leave the scotch man with the end of anchor then re clip and pull when it's not dangerouse. Very simple.

 

[trophywife]

i consider anchoring dangerous.

With safer ways to do it. carry on...

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

On my river boat you can see the chain slide bar I welded on. Works excellent. I even started making my river boat anchors out of all welded aluminum to combat losing anchors when hung up under canyon rocks. The aluminum is awesome. Strong enough to hold but if it's hung up bad I can either snap the slide bar off or I can pull an anchor blade off and still save my anchor at times even when very badly stuck. Then just weld an anchor blade back on.
Ocean boat pic you can see my cuddy hatch right at the windless. Will be doing my quick release line swap right there. Very safe..

 

[casper5280]

No offence Chasin' but coming from a lot of guys that anchor up ALOT Wolf is right. Way to much over thinking on your part. Why is it that everyone else uses the tried and true setup, because it's easy and SAFE. Do what you what, but anchoring up in the ocean is totally different than anchoring in the river. For me not a big deal to hand bomb in 600' of limp line, plus the anchor and chain is hanging off the scotchman. I wish you luck and please be safe.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

No offense takin Casper. There is no over thinking it at all actually. Originally I was uncertain of all the reason's guys were using this system. It's pretty clear it's cause of unsafe traveling to one's bow of the boat.

That being said, certain boats are much safer for this kind of bow access like mine is. This thread is about a plan for anchoring for Hali's on my boat. I'm not trying say others with different types of boats would be better off doing it this way, and I never did say that at all. I think you misinterpreted that part.

As for anchoring in a river compared to anchoring in an ocean well...Yes, it is much more different but not more or less dangerous at all. Anchoring a jet boat in the Fraser canyon isn't comparable to any other river in BC. Not even close. Crazy dangerous and I've been doing it for 17 years. Also, I've been salt chuck fishing the west coast of BC for over 30 years now so I'm very familiar with tides, swells, massive rollers etc encountered while fishing both inside and offshore. Knock on wood I have never had safety issue in over 30 years and I don't plan too. Accidents happen but we can control a lot of things that have impact on that.

I've never been much of a bottom fisherman, more preferring to always be on the move while fishing. Now as I'm getting a bit older I want to settle down a bit more with the boat and do more bottom fishing while anchored for Hali's and Lings. This set up for me on my boat will serve me very well both using it solo or with fishing partners. Safety is always first, that's why I spend a lot of time thinking and planning before doing.

 

[Charter Tofino]

What about when you hang your chain up? Pretty common snag when there are rocks around and a swinging tide. Your slide bar won't help in that scenario, you'll be fixed straight off your bow, likely vertical by the time you realize its totally hungup and with the normal 2 meter seas on the westside you're going to be in trouble quick. Best case scenario you'll be cutting the rope in a panic while the bow starts up bury.

I know a guide who swore by the windlass/pulpit method and I don't think he made it a summer before he had a near miss and I think ended up breaking his pulpit. Your method will work in theory and 90% of the time it will likely be slick but you're asking for trouble. The ring method gives you a bigger safety margin when pulling the anchor.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Kelly if the weather is that bad I wouldn't hang around to find out and I would never anchor up if I knew it was gonna blow up that bad to be a concern. It can be pretty unpredictable out there for sure and there are rogue waves/swells but a lot of it is common sense and knowing what the weather is doing. If I sensed the chain was hung up at all I would slack up and motor to another angle and pull. Has happened a few times out there already.
If still stuck or If the weather was bad I wouldn't even screw with it. I would unclip it (faster than cutting) and leave it till safe to work on it more. Slide bar can also be used with rope straight to a carabiner or a U bolt on the slide. Don't need a chain if you are using a long enough rode scope to your anchor.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Bones if you are pulling a stuck anchor with anything at all ie hands, battery pully from stern, windless from bow etc. in bad seas then that is being unsafe period.
I only pull my anchor on a slack rode line. I never put it under tension. That's how it gets stuck and more stuck in the first place.
Also you may have missed the text where I described my bow with railings. Further, I also mentioned (and showed a picture) of my bow with the cuddy hatch. I actually never have to 'walk' up to my bow to do anything with my quick releases if needed.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Chains help Hambone for sure, but studies have been done and underwater footage of rode scopes and their affect on the line on the bottom of the ocean and degree of pull. I was checking that out yesterday actually. With a 4:1 scope your rode is actually laying completely on the bottom for quite a ways and your pull on the anchor is then completely vertical to the sea floor.

 

[Charter Tofino]

You'll likely drag anchor without chain. 4 to 1 scope is pretty nuts. 1200 feet if you're anchored in 300...

If you use your method in less than 1m seas, ya it probably won't be that dangerous but you sometimes have to wait for weeks to see conditions that nice on the west side of the island. 1.5m-2m is standard. For that reason alone your method is not an easier or safer route.

I've had the scotchman come off the ring (not my setup...) while sitting on anchor. The only way to pull it was to try and hand bomb it vertically but the anchor of course hung up. Once I was vertical over the anchor without a bunch of scope you quickly see how dangerous it would be to be hardwired in. Even in manageable swell the 6 feet of up and down from trough to peak is not to be messed with. I could see lost fingers, snapped lines, snapped pulpits, buried bows or rolled boats.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Definitely never go over a stuck anchor vertical especially under a power pull!!! That's an instant boat head stand Kelly.

When you use a bow to stern ring system and you are fishing on a tide or wind swells that ring will always move to the bow point due to the force of nature on the boat pushing it away from the anchor point. There is no difference than having it like that and having it on a quick release through the bow roller then onto a quick release at the fish deck. Pressure point is the same, and quick release location is the same ie at the fish deck.

The only difference we are talking about is pulling an anchor up by a windless compared to driving the boat around and picking it up by hand. I would never risk pulling a stuck anchor in an unsafe angle or when swells could force a bow down.
As mentioned earlier I've done the bow head stand while pulling hard with whitewater around me and canyon rapids around me. It's an awakening for sure. Also have had to cut anchor lines in river boats.

Always lift a slack rode. If you are in rough water move the boat and slack the road prior to testing the power pull with the windless, never assume anything.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Ya bones opening a cuddy hatch for 10 seconds may flip the boat lol. Come on man lol.
I got a great chuckle from that sorry, no offense. I'm retired. I fish for fun and so do my family and friends that come with me. I don't fish in uncomfortable waters period. No need for me to do so whatsoever.

 

[Charter Tofino]

The ring and scotchman hit a stop float 50 feet ahead of the boat.... That's not the point though, the biggest risk is pulling the anchor. I don't think you get it.... There is no way to pull in only "safe angles", with no swell or with slack line only. There is always swell, tide and wind on the west coast.

You are new to anchoring, ask a question, get the same response from guys who do it for a living and don't seem to be interested. I guided almost every day this summer anchoring with a scotchman system. Then I lived 3 months on a boat this fall with divers/photographers anchoring 3-4 times a day using a windlass. I saw both systems in almost every set of conditions and can tell you that its not safe to be fixed off the bow in a small boat. It's possible yes but not safe and not necessary when you can just run a normal setup.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Kelly you say "There is no way to pull in only "safe angles", with no swell or with slack line only."

Kelly, yes man there is for sure 100% safe ways to pull. Just because I don't anchor for Halibut the ways we are discussing doesn't mean I don't anchor. I've been anchoring on the chuck for 30 years. Completely different and safe ways to pull an anchor with a windless. And if not safe you should unclip and retrieve it when it is safe.