The proper safety system for those trips is having the proper radios on board that can reach Coast Guard from those distances a life raft on board for everyone in the event of fire or sinking, Eperb to take with you so they know you are in trouble and can find you quickly. A kicker is not required equipment and wouldn't hold up in court as such. Just saying.Could get sued for farting loudly at home by the neighbours
But let’s be real here if your scenario happens the defence is the safety system worked and brought you home and a refund is offered
Guess it’s some kinda big secret what the cost of insurance is
I would think it is just the cost of doing business
Like in the trucking industry no insurance no work !
But what do I know
Seems like there is a “shade of grey” to chartering or is that just a song I heard once
Guide licensing
- Thread starter Unreel
- Start date
Loghauler
Well-Known Member
Sounds like more common sense to me I’m sure the courses teach all that and more
My point is that in your scenario no one is hurt and only later than expected
Talking about what ifs is kinda pointless
Any one can sue for anything!
Doesn’t mean they automatically get paid court is the playground of the rich just ask anyone dealing with family law !
Back to simpler thoughts guess you don’t know what insurance ranges are either
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
You know what that is. Guarantee they are going close the loophole for data reporting. That would be my guess. I wonder if it ties into the MSF they are trying to implement.
As it stands the guiding logbook program is supposed to be followed but many don't do it. Wonder if DFO is going fix that.
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BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
The marine liability act limits the amount paid out per occurence.250k seems low. I took the max my insurance would give 1.25mil per guest. Just in case I have drs on board
Claims — no contract of carriage
(2) The maximum liability for maritime claims that arise on any distinct occasion for loss of life or personal injury to persons carried on board a ship of less than 300 gross tonnage otherwise than under a contract of passenger carriage is the greater of
- (a) 2 000 000 units of account, and
- (b) 175 000 units of account multiplied by
- (i) the number of passengers that the ship is authorized to carry according to any Canadian maritime document required under the Canada Shipping Act, 2001, or
- (ii) the number of persons on board the ship, if no Canadian maritime document is required under that Act.
coastalmarinesafety
Active Member
Any significant new licensing regime like that for “commercial sport fishing” would involve quite a bit of consultation and wouldn’t be just a rumour. The SFI and those on the regional boards would hear about it and send out notice. If that hasn’t happened, then likely not being proposed at this time.
Rain City
Crew Member
And the notice likely wouldn't include gratuitous exclamation points.
fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
Not sure I see a need for actual guide licenses…what I see is more of a need for enforcement of rules against fly by night operators who want to seek identity by running a few trips and then calling themselves a guide. They are the ones which don’t have approved floatation on board, lack skills and have poorly maintained mechanicals. There are LOTS of these people on the coast now to be honest-it’s these folks which are going to create a big issue for those running legitimate businesses working their tail off for 25-30% short run gross margin.
bryce
Crew Member
What they need is more enforcement and way way way harsher penalties.
searun
Well-Known Member
Its one of the initiatives being investigated under the PSSI (Pacific Salmon Strategy Initiative), shared with the SFAB by DFO over a year ago.
Work is underway to investigate options for developing a Guide Licensing framework - so we won't likely hear much more until those investigative efforts narrow down the mechanics necessary to design a few options that could be recommended for refinement (including public consultation). So likely a ways off for now, but as mentioned in SV's post, one of the drivers behind Guide Licensing was making completing Guilde Log Books as a condition of license similar to what the Commercial fleet now has - in this way, the Department can gather more robust catch data necessary to more effectively manage the recreational fishery.
coastalmarinesafety
Active Member
Only took 50 posts to get an up to date answer on the original post. Thanks for this.
searun
Well-Known Member
I would be remiss if I also didn't add that one possible outcome of those investigations might be that there isn't a viable mechanism to facilitate designing a guide licensing scheme.
One hurtle that occurs to me is, once DFO implements electronic licensing using platforms such as Fishing BC app, where individual anglers are required to record their catch onto an electronic license platform, then that negates some of the business case to license guides and require as a condition of license completion of a guide log book to capture catch data.
Is the juice worth the squeeze in a modernized license and catch recording environment?
One hurtle that occurs to me is, once DFO implements electronic licensing using platforms such as Fishing BC app, where individual anglers are required to record their catch onto an electronic license platform, then that negates some of the business case to license guides and require as a condition of license completion of a guide log book to capture catch data.
Is the juice worth the squeeze in a modernized license and catch recording environment?
wolf
Well-Known Member
Just like DFO that app is a complete joke we took a picture of a pink and it came up as 99.5 % chinook in the identifier ...FIRST then need to enforce WHAT they dont do ..monitor the non registered and non compliante guides that advertise and no certs etc UNTIL they do that good luck on anything else... we have at least 10 "new" guys with F all here in sooke undercutting and no experience..
searun
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't judge the utility of the app to record catch based on early attempts to teach AI how to recognize fish....as for dealing with illegal guides, I think this is an emerging issue brought about by Transport Canada's failure to enforce the regulations they implemented - sort of makes a joke out of good guides who invest in vessel upgrades and training to do the right thing. Also says a lot about why guests should do some additional due diligence to make sure they are getting good value and safety from the experience before they book....also that they actually have Charter insurance that the insurer will stand behind when there is a claim.
Perhaps illegal guiding, & customer safety is a larger value than just collecting guide vessel catch data that will propel guide licensing forward? You raise an interesting and important point!
wolf
Well-Known Member
I agree Pat but half these guy probally dont even have insurance and people are looking for the CHEAPEST trip out many dont care as long as its cheaper then the "other guys" point is system is badly flawed it was supposed to be good back in day when it was the yellow decal now its a joke so go ahead start up a business use BC numbers and giver as there is zero enforcement up and down this coast
As someone who was one of the first to enter the Log Book program and also volunteered to collect DNA samples when asked if I would do so....before anyone else was doing it. I found out a couple years later when I asked why that data had not been shared with as that was agreed to as condition of me collecting it in the first place. (I figured that would make it worth my time and effort to learn where certain timed runs come from with 100% certainty) I was told my 100 plus Chinook DNA were on a shelf unprocessed for lack of funds. I dropped out of the program on the spot. I was really into it at the time but it did take time and effort to do it properly. I was quite pissed to find out what happened.
Roy that is kinda of accurate....people will often go for the cheaper price...but that DOESN't mean they aren't prepared to and would pay more if the lower prices weren't offered. Those who operate at unsustainable prices not only leave money on the table for themselves, they screw everyone else in the area out of being able to charge an amount that keeps them on the water even when motors blow up or when a pandemic hits. If you go into business that business should support itself, a mortgage on your home and your family. If it doesn't...WTF are you doing? Probably preventing others from being able to!!!! I know other industries have the same issues but it is true in all cases.
searun
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear that was your experience - although DFO waiting until they have the $ to process DNA isn't a lack of value that data will and did eventually bring to fishery management once they found the funds.
Those same DNA programs have continued on to this day, and are building a very comprehensive data set of stock composition, run timing in very specific fishery areas. They helped shape many of the successfully implemented MSF fishery opportunities. The idea being we can plan recreational fisheries that avoid stocks of concern because we learn through collecting data on which fish families are travelling through specific fishery areas at certain timing windows.
That is not to say that the Department isn't directed by their political masters from time to time to make a "political" decision that isn't necessarily well founded in science...that's what politicians do, and we shouldn't be too surprised by it. Conversely, withholding data such as DNA sampling only serves our detractors and feeds political decisions that fall back on the good old "precautionary principle" in absence of data. A real catch 22 - people need to think about it.
I still haven't received data and that was probably 10 plus years ago now. They were done in alcohol filled vials which aren't used anymore. It was 2-3 years after I collected the samples that I had the chance to ask Wilf at a meeting about them. That is when he said they were still on the shelf. I get the need for data but it goes both ways. If you want something for free and someone agrees to do it...honour the deal.
tigerprawn
Active Member
Maybe they want to start using plastic tags for chinook and Halibut (one time use) that you receive when buying your yearly license
