Guide licensing

[Rain City]

I think like most trades the public may not understand what the qualification actually means, but they quickly notice the key part like Fishing Master, maybe not class 3 certification. I’m pretty sure everyone would understand basic things like Transport Canada Certified and for sure Insured. Face It when we go to a Doctor, Lawyer etc. who knows what all the post nominal letters mean. If the Industry adopts a strategy of always listing qualifications the public will become more educated and notice when there is no list. Just a thought.

Platforms like Craigslist, Facebook, Air BNB and Trip Advisor should be held accountable and not allow unlicensed vendors to advertise. I see a lot of ads for day charters and harbour cruises from guys with shiny new Cutwaters. They have reviews and ratings as well, which to most consumers, is evidence enough of a legitimate business.

 

[CIVANO]

Would it not help if DFO had enough gumption to publish a quarterly list of licensed charter operators.

 

[Clint r]

Would it not help if DFO had enough gumption to publish a quarterly list of licensed charter operators.

Easiest, most sensible solution so a hard no from DFO.

 

[SpringVelocity]

There are so many professions that are regulated that people cheat the system. I dont see guiding be any different. Take a field like engineering. Many of us spend money to go to college and universities. When we get out guess what? Tons of companies hiring guys with zero credentials working as designers. Super frustrating but you get what you pay for.

I think we might be missing point here. The guide licensing has more to do with DFO wanting data than anything. Some of you need to be in boardroom with other user groups screaming that recreational operators are not up to par with commercial.

As I said though above this guide licensing is just a conversation right now. It isn't even one to being worked on yet. So why worry?

 

[profisher]

Would it not help if DFO had enough gumption to publish a quarterly list of licensed charter operators.

Gov agencies are very reluctant to assume any possible liability...that list from a legal standpoint could make them a fishing charter agent. By way of ...we are recommending these guys on our list. .

 

[ab1752]

Gov agencies are very reluctant to assume any possible liability...that list from a legal standpoint could make them a fishing charter agent. By way of ...we are recommending these guys on our list. .

The one way to manage liability is to run an rfp process for approved vendors (guides). That places a tight box around the agreed upon contract terms and conditions for Service Providers (guides in this case). Anyone not on the mso list of providers, or anyone caught in violation of the ts and cs, is liable.

You will narrow the scope of enforcement required, and anyone delivering "shadow guide" services will be easily identified.

 

[ziggy]

There are so many professions that are regulated that people cheat the system. I dont see guiding be any different. Take a field like engineering. Many of us spend money to go to college and universities. When we get out guess what? Tons of companies hiring guys with zero credentials working as designers. Super frustrating but you get what you pay for.

I think we might be missing point here. The guide licensing has more to do with DFO wanting data than anything. Some of you need to be in boardroom with other user groups screaming that recreational operators are not up to par with commercial.

As I said though above this guide licensing is just a conversation right now. It isn't even one to being worked on yet. So why worry?

Is guiding not considered professional? If you require additional qualifications to call yourself a guide it should be treated as such?

 

[wildmanyeah]

The guiding associations could put out a list of recommended venders, maybe they already do not sure

As far as licensing I doubt will see that especially if they have to amend the act to make it happen.

 

[ziggy]

Gov agencies are very reluctant to assume any possible liability...that list from a legal standpoint could make them a fishing charter agent. By way of ...we are recommending these guys on our list. .

But don’t they do that by defining licensing requirements now. Government is just reluctant

 

[Derby]

SFI has ctag program that list a bunch of certified guides on there website..

 

[Clint r]

But don’t they do that by defining licensing requirements now. Government is just reluctant

Lazy

 

[eroyd]

Problem is, the Gov't won't "work harder", they'll just hire more people. Don't need more government.

 

[searun]

Would it not help if DFO had enough gumption to publish a quarterly list of licensed charter operators.

You can go to the SFI's website and search by geographic area for CTAG Guides - look for the red CTAG logo.. https://sportfishing.bc.ca/ctag/

 

[searun]

A bit of speculation going on within this thread. Firstly, DFO isn't the governance agency - it is Transport Canada.

Here's a link to the Small Commercial Vessel requirements (below) - spells out very clearly what a small commercial vessel operator is required by law to do. Includes annual safety self inspection and modifications to vessels to comply with safety regulations. Many production vessels will not comply unless modified.

Compliance to the regulations costs time and money - beware of those fly-by-night operators, many of whom have cut corners resulting in less than safe operating practices. I'm sure they are great guys with good intentions - but, they don't know what they don't know!

Consumers should insist on only chartering operators and vessels that display the Transport Canada Safety blue decal. Another way to know that your Charter captain has all their safety training certificates up to date is to ask to see if they are also a CTAG certified guide. Cheap charters are all fun and games until something goes wrong. A properly trained and equipped vessel and operator can be the difference when responding to unanticipated emergencies - or more importantly - having the training and experience to avoid them!

Link:

Small Commercial Vessel Safety Guide - TP 14070 E (2010)

tc.canada.ca

Here's the blue decal to look for:

 

[ab1752]

The blue decal needs some serious marketing support from Tourisim BC so travelers know what to look for.

 

[profisher]

The blue decal needs some serious anti UV Ray coating so the blue and print stays on it for more than one year out of the five each is valid for. My last ones were just white blank squares after 1 year. Asked for a replacement and never got one.

 

[Peahead]

You can go to the SFI's website and search by geographic area for CTAG Guides - look for the red CTAG logo.. https://sportfishing.bc.ca/ctag/

Hi Pat, I am aware you know this but just to point out for others that unless things have changed from back when I was guiding several years ago, CTAG was/ is as far as I know still an optional certification. Originally introduced and offered as a bonus certification for guided fishing etiquette/customer service, fish ID etc etc but not a required safety certification like those required by TC and needed to guide legally or to operate a small commercial vessel with passengers legally. At the time of introduction of the CTAG it was especially marketed to and a benefit to the new young guides with some hours of experience but fairly new to guiding. It took a while later to get the more experienced guides interested and to see the benefits of promoting yourself and business as having the CTAG certification. Just a bit of background as I recall it when it rolled out.

Under the now old TC CDN number, the SVOP, MED A2/A3, MROC certifications and up to date Marine 1st Aid are required by TC . The CDN was a good way to keep track of your certifications so not sure why they were phasing it out. The CTAG certification is required by some businesses if you want to work for them but that is up to the private company such as fishing lodges or those charter operations hiring guides. I feel the CTAG as a great asset to have so not diminishing its value. I definitely think it is an excellent promotional tool. The logo displayed on a business site or social media for promotional reasons will for sure attract attention and add value but just wanted to clear up that without a CTAG the guide operators are still TC certified. Operator boats of course must also be commercially licenced and TC certified as others have mentioned.

Now my 2 cents on how to enforce the guiding illegally. Essentially we already have the infrastructure that produces a licence for a guide so the issue as others have pointed out is the enforcement. I tend to agree with others that have suggested its about informing all potential clients. Have information on how to choose a guide on your promotional material. Write articles, have info at sports/fishing shows/marinas etc . I feel that information on safety certifications and insurance should be a big part of the information a customer can get easily if they are deciding what boat/guide to hire. VALUE ADDED.... you might pay a bit more but you are investing in that VALUE!

 

[Rain City]

Hi Pat, I am aware you know this but just to point out for others that unless things have changed from back when I was guiding several years ago, CTAG was/ is as far as I know still an optional certification. Originally introduced and offered as a bonus certification for guided fishing etiquette/customer service, fish ID etc etc but not a required safety certification like those required by TC and needed to guide legally or to operate a small commercial vessel with passengers legally. At the time of introduction of the CTAG it was especially marketed to and a benefit to the new young guides with some hours of experience but fairly new to guiding. It took a while later to get the more experienced guides interested and to see the benefits of promoting yourself and business as having the CTAG certification. Just a bit of background as I recall it when it rolled out.

Under the now old TC CDN number, the SVOP, MED A2/A3, MROC certifications and up to date Marine 1st Aid are required by TC . The CDN was a good way to keep track of your certifications so not sure why they were phasing it out. The CTAG certification is required by some businesses if you want to work for them but that is up to the private company such as fishing lodges or those charter operations hiring guides. I feel the CTAG as a great asset to have so not diminishing its value. I definitely think it is an excellent promotional tool. The logo displayed on a business site or social media for promotional reasons will for sure attract attention and add value but just wanted to clear up that without a CTAG the guide operators are still TC certified. Operator boats of course must also be commercially licenced and TC certified as others have mentioned.

Now my 2 cents on how to enforce the guiding illegally. Essentially we already have the infrastructure that produces a licence for a guide so the issue as others have pointed out is the enforcement. I tend to agree with others that have suggested its about informing all potential clients. Have information on how to choose a guide on your promotional material. Write articles, have info at sports/fishing shows/marinas etc . I feel that information on safety certifications and insurance should be a big part of the information a customer can get easily if they are deciding what boat/guide to hire. VALUE ADDED.... you might pay a bit more but you are investing in that VALUE!

I could have sworn I made the note, and then got the question right on the test, that the program is in fact optional.

 

[fishin_magician]

Guide licensing was brought up at our Sfac meeting by DFO.

In the Vancouver area and Nanaimo they are having real issues with guys taking out like 10 people. Everyone on board has 1 day licences and they all have their limits of crab, lingcod, rockfish and prawns.

They are going out everyday and just pillaging everything said they are turning some areas back 30 years.

They claim they are not guiding but it’s pretty obvious all 1 days licenses and different people every day.

Yep. Mostly out of Richmond. They got run off Granville Island a few years ago.

 

[fishin_magician]

Let's face it guides need to make an income to support their business
but $1200 a day is more than most can afford.
That's why there are unqualified operators as they see an opportunity.
I know boats cost money and don't run on air, I have one.

The problem is there is no enforcement. Paying people in government jobs who know their stuff is expensive and you have to hunt the peeps down and then give them enforcement authority. Politicians only go where the wheels squeak.