crabs
- Thread starter c.askin
- Start date
Cuba Libre
Well-Known Member
Drain the water from your container. Put a cold pack on the bottom of the container. Layer seaweed, and crabs and then put a last cold pack or two on top of the seaweed. They will last longer this way than trying to keep them in saltwater unless you have refrigeration unit and water circulator.
Sushihunter
Active Member
What Cuba Libre says...
Also, try and pack them in tight so they can't move around and fight with each other. The cold packs will slow them down, but you don't want to get home to find a bunch have been fighting and now have lost legs and lives.
Don't use ice, as you don't want it to melt and drown the crabs on the bottom. Fresh water is not good for them anyway.
Also, try and pack them in tight so they can't move around and fight with each other. The cold packs will slow them down, but you don't want to get home to find a bunch have been fighting and now have lost legs and lives.
Don't use ice, as you don't want it to melt and drown the crabs on the bottom. Fresh water is not good for them anyway.
Lipripper
Active Member
It doesn't take much cold to make them dormant....
If you are 1-2 hours from home, a cooler with some fresh(fill the cooler when you leave) salt water in it will have them fighting you when you get there.
If you take them alive and put them in salt ice.... they would still be alive by the time you got to Saskatchewan...Driving
If you are 1-2 hours from home, a cooler with some fresh(fill the cooler when you leave) salt water in it will have them fighting you when you get there.
If you take them alive and put them in salt ice.... they would still be alive by the time you got to Saskatchewan...Driving
Pippen
Well-Known Member
Talk to them a lot.....sing songs and put on a Roger Whitaker cassette; if you are driving 2 hours you may need the double album called "The Best of Roger Whitaker". Believe me.....they'll be just fine.
OR.....why do they need to be alive in 2 hours? Why not just clean em'......and put them in the cooler for the 1 to 2 hour drive home?
OR.....why do they need to be alive in 2 hours? Why not just clean em'......and put them in the cooler for the 1 to 2 hour drive home?
Barnacle Bill
Well-Known Member
Kev, how much salt ice do you cover them with?........BB
Sculpin
Well-Known Member
I believe the reg's say they have to be intact with the shell on until you reach your place of residence. You can clean them when you get home.
I only live 5 minutes from a boat ramp so I just do the salt water thing. Some good tips for the longer distance travelers.
Fish Assassin
Crew Member
lol..........
Fish Assassin
Crew Member
Read this.. http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/showthread.php?16192-transporting-crab&highlight=crabs
A: Crabs can live for several days out of water as long as they are healthy and are kept cool, moist, and stress-free. The optimal temperature is about 50° F., anything colder will ultimately kill them.
Transporting - A cooler filled with a layer of ice (or several gel packs) on the bottom is probably the best method to transport live crabs. If using ice, be sure to fasten a shelf to keep the crabs out of the melted ice water. If the crabs get into this water they'll quickly deplete the water's oxygen and will suffocate (for this same reason, never keep live crabs in a bucket of standing water.)
Alternatively, you can transport the crabs in a wooden bushel basket, covered with a damp burlap sack, and out of direct sunlight. While not optimal, this method is more practical for commercial watermen who utilize bushel baskets during the short period of time between catching and delivering their crabs to market.
A: Crabs can live for several days out of water as long as they are healthy and are kept cool, moist, and stress-free. The optimal temperature is about 50° F., anything colder will ultimately kill them.
Alternatively, you can transport the crabs in a wooden bushel basket, covered with a damp burlap sack, and out of direct sunlight. While not optimal, this method is more practical for commercial watermen who utilize bushel baskets during the short period of time between catching and delivering their crabs to market.
Peahead
Well-Known Member
The crabs may be fine in this case but you may not be ( you may get a fine) . As Sculpin mentioned, you don't want to be caught by fisheries with "cleaned" crab while in transit!
Last edited by a moderator:
Peahead
Well-Known Member
I find it interesting in the post that FA posted above it says crabs will ultimately die if kept below 50 degrees F and yet if you pack crab in ice or frozen gel packs for many hours, I can tell you as long as you are not constantly opening the lid, the temperature of the cooler will go well below 50 F. Perhaps it is refering to much longer pack times that eventually below 50F is too cold.
For me 24hours is all Ithe time I would ever need and crabs have lived in my fridge ( kept damp) for at least 24 hours and my fridge is at about 38-40 degrees F
For me 24hours is all Ithe time I would ever need and crabs have lived in my fridge ( kept damp) for at least 24 hours and my fridge is at about 38-40 degrees F
Last edited by a moderator:
Heavyc
Active Member
I've only had 1 crab die on me when transporting them in a lunch sized cooler (or one of our smaller holds in the boat) filled with sea water from coal harbour to black creek (4 hrs drive) And we usually jam that cooler full if we can.
They are lethargic when they hit the water, but they're delish after the fact.
And it may be my personal preference here, but I think the crab meat is better when they hit the water live as they tense up making it easier to get whole pieces out of the shell.
They are lethargic when they hit the water, but they're delish after the fact.
And it may be my personal preference here, but I think the crab meat is better when they hit the water live as they tense up making it easier to get whole pieces out of the shell.
Charlie
Well-Known Member
You are better off transporting live crab in at temperatures between 45-50F. And, yes periodically open that cooler! Out of water they will live for quite a few hours, actually up to about fifteen! In un-oxygenated water they will DIE, just as soon as they use up that oxygen!
1) LACKOF OXYGEN
While in water crabs are able to use about 20% of the oxygen available. That is efficient enough to use up all of the oxygen faster than you would like, were a pump or aerator to fail. In open/flow-through systems of sufficient flow the naturally occurring dissolved oxygen (D.O.) is sufficient to maintain good blood chemistry. [e.g. any type of open mesh nets] In closed/recirculating systems that are usually operating at lower temperatures it is easier to achieve, through mechanical means, levels of D.O. that are superior to that occurring in nature but if an oxygenation component fails that superiority is relatively quickly used up.
Out of water, the crabs gills are no longer held buoyant. In that situation the gills collapse dramatically reducing their ability to assimilate oxygen from the air. Now add to that, debris in the form of silt or other suspended particulates deposited on the already reduced gill surface further impairing oxygen uptake. Remember the crab is already literally out of its element during shipping. Putting all of these obstacles together might be something like you or I running the Boston Marathon with a bag overour heads. Not a pretty picture in any ones book.
ACTION TO TAKE: IN AN OPEN/FLOW-THROUGH SYSTEMTHE BEST WAY TO INCREASE D.O. IS TO DECREASE THE BIO-LOAD OR INCREASE THE FLOWRATE THROUGH THE TANKS. IN A CLOSED SYSTEM DECREASE BIO-LOAD OR INCREASE CASCADING OR OTHER AGITATION AND MIXING SUCH AS WITH VENTURIES OR SKIMMER SWHICH INCORPORATE VENTURIES. IN ALL TYPES OF SYSTEMS ALLOW FOR MECHANICAL FILTRATION AND APPROPRIATE SOAK TIME PRIOR TO SHIPPING TO ALLOW FOR DEBRIS TO CLEAR FROM GILLS.
Have you ever put live crabs in a live well and noticed after awhile you will start seeing some legs floating around in the bottom? They fight! You are much better off putting them in a net (yes, even stacking them) then letting them swim around free in a live well, and fighting!
BLEEDING
Crabs have blood and, yes, they can bleed to death. Crabs are so vulnerable to bleeding that they have evolved a fascinating ability. If a crab is injured in a fight with another crab and is bleeding through a puncture in a leg and the injury is life threatening they can actually voluntarily “throw” the injured leg. There is a muscle attached to a valve sort of apparatus on the joint of each leg closest to the carapace. By contracting that muscle the leg is severed at the joint losing the leg and saving the life. If a crab is in a weakened state or is otherwise stressed it may be incapable of accomplishing this life saving feat and die from loss of blood. That is why proper and gentle handling when loading tanks is so important. Crab handled by fishermen and first receivers are usually handling “hot” crab in warmer (40 degrees and above) water making the crabs especially susceptible to puncture wounds inflicted by other crabs. Crabs are also very territorial, so when they are crowded in a tank they tend to fight. That is when puncture wounds can occur, and cause bleeding or even death. Another puncture danger is from rough handling, like tossing one on top of the other instead of setting the crab in the water. The points on the sides of the shell are capable of actually puncturing the crab it lands on.
ACTIONTO TAKE: FIRST RECEIVERS ALWAYS TRANSFER WATER TO WATER OR AT LEAST DRY TO WATER. NEVER TRANSFER WET TO DRY OR DRY TO DRY. A BANDING PROGRAM WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TOO. WHEN LOADING TANKS TRY TO DISTRIBUTE THE CRAB AROUND THE TANK SO THAT YOU ARE NOT PUTTING CRAB ON TOP OF CRAB ON TOP OF CRAB ETC.. THAT CAN REALLY **** THEM OFF AND WHEN CRAB ARE PISSED OF SOME ONE IS GOING TO BLEED.
3)MECHANICAL SHOCK
To my knowledge no definitive research on mechanical shock damage has ever been done. It remains just one of the many areas needing to be studied to further our understanding of why crabs die. We do know, experientially, that Dungeness are far more susceptible to mechanical shock than are East Coast Lobster. Internally Dungeness crab have, proportionally, much larger sinus areas than that of the lobster and I believe that is the principle reason for this lethal vulnerability to mechanical shock.
It has been observed by myself and others that a box of crab packed for airshipping and dropped from waist height can result in excess of 50% mortalities within a few hours. It appears that those large sinuses leave so much space for movement that, when dropped, the internal organs move to such a degree that connective tissue is irreparably damaged. Fishermen have known of this fragile nature for along time.
Those in the know have constructed slides or shoots to soften the landing insituations where crabs must be transferred with potentially damaging vertical drops such as from the deck into a hold.
Even small mechanical shocks can have damaging effects. The simple transfer from one container to another and even into water can have serious consequences. The impact of “tossing” crab into a tank can result in mortalities. If not while in your possession then in your customers. Years ago I observed an extreme example of what I’m talking about.
It was in the very early days of live shipping to the east coast markets. I had begun shipping to a new customer who had never bought Dungeness before and who constantly reported excessive next day (after arrival at his facility) mortalities. Even though he seemed to be a nice enough fellow I started to suspect him to be one of those credit junkies who are only satisfied if they are getting their credit fix. It happened that I had an opportunity to fly to his area for a trade show so we timed a shipment to coincide with my arrival. Before the shipment arrived we ran some tests on his system water to rule out problems in that area. Everything looked fine and the crab leftover from the previous shipment looked healthy enough though they were the survivors of a 55% next day mortality. When the shipment arrived at his facility we inspected the outer boxes for evidence of dropping. It all looked good so, scratching my head, I followed him toward his office while the workers prepared to load the crab into the tanks. As we were leaving his warehouse I heard a thump, splash, thump, splash, sound. I turned and watched in horror as the workers were tossing the crab from floor height into the top tank of a triple-stack system using the wall behind as a “backboard” to bounce the crab off! Needless to say we had found the cause of hisnext day mortality problem.
Later on that same trip I visited a number of large lobster holding facilities and observed similar if not identical practices being used in handling lobster from crate to tank and tank to tank. Obviously I had my work cut out for me as far as education of the new east coast markets were concerned.
ACTION TO TAKE: HANDLE DUNGENESS LIKE YOU ARE DOING YOUR MOTHERS HEIRLOOM DISHES AFTER THANKSGIVING DINNER. SET THE CRAB INTO WATER NEVER THROW THEM OR DROP THEM. WHEN BOXED NEVER DROP THE BOX, SET IT DOWN. CONSPICUOUSLY MARK SHIPPING CONTAINERS AS “FRAGILE” AND SPEND SOME TIME EDUCATING YOUR SHIPPERS TO THE FRAGILE NATURE OF YOUR SHIPMENTS.
I believe, these people pretty much have it figured out. If you want to read the whole article, it is here:
http://ari1.com/live-crab-handling/
If you take live Dungeness crab, put them on fresh water ice and keep them there until they die - you will probably be disappointed in the taste and quality of the meat. The taste becomes quite bland, quickly. I agree with cooking them alive! To the point, since my trips last up to a week I realistically can’t keep them alive within that 15 hour timeframe … The answer for me; if I know I can’t keep them alive – I cook them, right on the boat! Leave them whole, stick in ZipLock freezerbags, and put on ice. If you think, you’re going to cook them, then vacuum pack whole to keep them fresh? Save some money and buy ZipLock freezerbags. You will only have to vacuum pack one, to see what I am talking about! The vacuum will suck the “butter” right out of them.
Just my 2 cents on transporting crab!
1) LACKOF OXYGEN
While in water crabs are able to use about 20% of the oxygen available. That is efficient enough to use up all of the oxygen faster than you would like, were a pump or aerator to fail. In open/flow-through systems of sufficient flow the naturally occurring dissolved oxygen (D.O.) is sufficient to maintain good blood chemistry. [e.g. any type of open mesh nets] In closed/recirculating systems that are usually operating at lower temperatures it is easier to achieve, through mechanical means, levels of D.O. that are superior to that occurring in nature but if an oxygenation component fails that superiority is relatively quickly used up.
Out of water, the crabs gills are no longer held buoyant. In that situation the gills collapse dramatically reducing their ability to assimilate oxygen from the air. Now add to that, debris in the form of silt or other suspended particulates deposited on the already reduced gill surface further impairing oxygen uptake. Remember the crab is already literally out of its element during shipping. Putting all of these obstacles together might be something like you or I running the Boston Marathon with a bag overour heads. Not a pretty picture in any ones book.
ACTION TO TAKE: IN AN OPEN/FLOW-THROUGH SYSTEMTHE BEST WAY TO INCREASE D.O. IS TO DECREASE THE BIO-LOAD OR INCREASE THE FLOWRATE THROUGH THE TANKS. IN A CLOSED SYSTEM DECREASE BIO-LOAD OR INCREASE CASCADING OR OTHER AGITATION AND MIXING SUCH AS WITH VENTURIES OR SKIMMER SWHICH INCORPORATE VENTURIES. IN ALL TYPES OF SYSTEMS ALLOW FOR MECHANICAL FILTRATION AND APPROPRIATE SOAK TIME PRIOR TO SHIPPING TO ALLOW FOR DEBRIS TO CLEAR FROM GILLS.
Have you ever put live crabs in a live well and noticed after awhile you will start seeing some legs floating around in the bottom? They fight! You are much better off putting them in a net (yes, even stacking them) then letting them swim around free in a live well, and fighting!
BLEEDING
Crabs have blood and, yes, they can bleed to death. Crabs are so vulnerable to bleeding that they have evolved a fascinating ability. If a crab is injured in a fight with another crab and is bleeding through a puncture in a leg and the injury is life threatening they can actually voluntarily “throw” the injured leg. There is a muscle attached to a valve sort of apparatus on the joint of each leg closest to the carapace. By contracting that muscle the leg is severed at the joint losing the leg and saving the life. If a crab is in a weakened state or is otherwise stressed it may be incapable of accomplishing this life saving feat and die from loss of blood. That is why proper and gentle handling when loading tanks is so important. Crab handled by fishermen and first receivers are usually handling “hot” crab in warmer (40 degrees and above) water making the crabs especially susceptible to puncture wounds inflicted by other crabs. Crabs are also very territorial, so when they are crowded in a tank they tend to fight. That is when puncture wounds can occur, and cause bleeding or even death. Another puncture danger is from rough handling, like tossing one on top of the other instead of setting the crab in the water. The points on the sides of the shell are capable of actually puncturing the crab it lands on.
ACTIONTO TAKE: FIRST RECEIVERS ALWAYS TRANSFER WATER TO WATER OR AT LEAST DRY TO WATER. NEVER TRANSFER WET TO DRY OR DRY TO DRY. A BANDING PROGRAM WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TOO. WHEN LOADING TANKS TRY TO DISTRIBUTE THE CRAB AROUND THE TANK SO THAT YOU ARE NOT PUTTING CRAB ON TOP OF CRAB ON TOP OF CRAB ETC.. THAT CAN REALLY **** THEM OFF AND WHEN CRAB ARE PISSED OF SOME ONE IS GOING TO BLEED.
3)MECHANICAL SHOCK
To my knowledge no definitive research on mechanical shock damage has ever been done. It remains just one of the many areas needing to be studied to further our understanding of why crabs die. We do know, experientially, that Dungeness are far more susceptible to mechanical shock than are East Coast Lobster. Internally Dungeness crab have, proportionally, much larger sinus areas than that of the lobster and I believe that is the principle reason for this lethal vulnerability to mechanical shock.
It has been observed by myself and others that a box of crab packed for airshipping and dropped from waist height can result in excess of 50% mortalities within a few hours. It appears that those large sinuses leave so much space for movement that, when dropped, the internal organs move to such a degree that connective tissue is irreparably damaged. Fishermen have known of this fragile nature for along time.
Those in the know have constructed slides or shoots to soften the landing insituations where crabs must be transferred with potentially damaging vertical drops such as from the deck into a hold.
Even small mechanical shocks can have damaging effects. The simple transfer from one container to another and even into water can have serious consequences. The impact of “tossing” crab into a tank can result in mortalities. If not while in your possession then in your customers. Years ago I observed an extreme example of what I’m talking about.
It was in the very early days of live shipping to the east coast markets. I had begun shipping to a new customer who had never bought Dungeness before and who constantly reported excessive next day (after arrival at his facility) mortalities. Even though he seemed to be a nice enough fellow I started to suspect him to be one of those credit junkies who are only satisfied if they are getting their credit fix. It happened that I had an opportunity to fly to his area for a trade show so we timed a shipment to coincide with my arrival. Before the shipment arrived we ran some tests on his system water to rule out problems in that area. Everything looked fine and the crab leftover from the previous shipment looked healthy enough though they were the survivors of a 55% next day mortality. When the shipment arrived at his facility we inspected the outer boxes for evidence of dropping. It all looked good so, scratching my head, I followed him toward his office while the workers prepared to load the crab into the tanks. As we were leaving his warehouse I heard a thump, splash, thump, splash, sound. I turned and watched in horror as the workers were tossing the crab from floor height into the top tank of a triple-stack system using the wall behind as a “backboard” to bounce the crab off! Needless to say we had found the cause of hisnext day mortality problem.
Later on that same trip I visited a number of large lobster holding facilities and observed similar if not identical practices being used in handling lobster from crate to tank and tank to tank. Obviously I had my work cut out for me as far as education of the new east coast markets were concerned.
ACTION TO TAKE: HANDLE DUNGENESS LIKE YOU ARE DOING YOUR MOTHERS HEIRLOOM DISHES AFTER THANKSGIVING DINNER. SET THE CRAB INTO WATER NEVER THROW THEM OR DROP THEM. WHEN BOXED NEVER DROP THE BOX, SET IT DOWN. CONSPICUOUSLY MARK SHIPPING CONTAINERS AS “FRAGILE” AND SPEND SOME TIME EDUCATING YOUR SHIPPERS TO THE FRAGILE NATURE OF YOUR SHIPMENTS.
I believe, these people pretty much have it figured out. If you want to read the whole article, it is here:
http://ari1.com/live-crab-handling/
If you take live Dungeness crab, put them on fresh water ice and keep them there until they die - you will probably be disappointed in the taste and quality of the meat. The taste becomes quite bland, quickly. I agree with cooking them alive! To the point, since my trips last up to a week I realistically can’t keep them alive within that 15 hour timeframe … The answer for me; if I know I can’t keep them alive – I cook them, right on the boat! Leave them whole, stick in ZipLock freezerbags, and put on ice. If you think, you’re going to cook them, then vacuum pack whole to keep them fresh? Save some money and buy ZipLock freezerbags. You will only have to vacuum pack one, to see what I am talking about! The vacuum will suck the “butter” right out of them.
Just my 2 cents on transporting crab!
mbowers
Well-Known Member
Pippen
Well-Known Member
Right....fair enough.
I wonder if you could crack the whole thing in half....clean out what you can from the inside but having two "halves" of a crab with the carapace still attached? It states "attached" and not "intact"??
In saying that though....for a longer road trip it may be just as good to keep them alive when you can. I never have far to go and quite often just walk home from the ramp as it's about 2 blocks.
Charlie
Well-Known Member
I believe your key word there is “acclimated”
If you catch a crab at Race Rocks in in 50F water and throw it in a fresh bucket of 70F seawater (sitting in the sun on your boat), it is going to - DIE! I believe what they did was chill them down to 30F and rapidly warmed back up to 50F. The crab in essence got acclimatized to 30F and when they dumped all that 50F water on them – they weren’t acclimated to it - they DIED.
As mentioned, that 3 to 19 OC listed as normal for theDungeness crab; however, if you catch a crab caught and acclimatized to 3C water and throw it in a cooler of water that is 10C, I believe what they are telling you – the crab are going to DIE!
“Optimal temperatures for larvae are 10 [50.0]°F] to 14 OC [57.2] °F]. Juvenile crabs, 80 mm wide and acclimated to 10.0 OC [50.0°F], have been exposed to water temperatures up to 25.0 OC [77] °F] for 7 days with little or no mortality (Des Voigne1973); however, an increase of 2.5 OC above 25 OC [81.5°F] was fatal to 100% of all crabs tested. in the laboratory, adult crabs had a maximum tolerable temperature of 25 OC [77] °F] during long photoperiods, which decreased to 20 OC [68 °F] when exposed t o short photoperiods (Des Voigne 1973). With adult crabs held for 8 months, Wild (1983) observed that mortality increased with temperature from 17% at 10 OC [50.0°F] to 58% at 13 OC [55.4°F] and to 80% at 17 OC [62.6°F], although laboratory stress probably exacerbated the effect of high temperatures.”
mbowers
Well-Known Member
I fully agree that any thermal shock is bad, my point was just directed at what steady temperature is acceptable to the crabs and that appears to be just above freezing up to 20C.
In general any creature seems to do best at the coldest steady temperature that they can survive longterm. For coldwater crabs that seems to be right around freezing or 0C / 32F which is the temperature they should get to gradually if you put them in cooler with some ice but don't let them touch the ice / slushy water directly. It's much more unlikely to thermally shock the crab with cold, still air in a cooler than with a cold water bath.
In general any creature seems to do best at the coldest steady temperature that they can survive longterm. For coldwater crabs that seems to be right around freezing or 0C / 32F which is the temperature they should get to gradually if you put them in cooler with some ice but don't let them touch the ice / slushy water directly. It's much more unlikely to thermally shock the crab with cold, still air in a cooler than with a cold water bath.
