Anybody use crimps for Salmon leaders?

[RiverBoy]

Any one try teflon tubing for chafing gear. I've seen teflon tubing recommended on several American saltwater forums. Just curious if anyone has tried it up here. It comes in a lot of smaller sizes which is better for lighter test lines.

Where would you get this tubing?

 

[TheBigGuy]

Try an ebay search with the terms "teflon tubing". Check the free shipping check box. There are a lot of cheap options with different sizes and lengths in china. This type tubing is harder and available in more sizes than the soft polyethylene tubing sold at most fishing stores. This type of tubing is gaining in popularity with big game fishers because it protects the line better. A few American offshore supplies stores sell it, but the cost is way out of line for the amount you get, and then pricey international shipping on top.

It's extra toughness is probably not needed for salmon gear, but for monster Hali it might be a good choice. I might order some after the polyethylene tubing I ordered arrives.

 

[RiverBoy]

Try an ebay search with the terms "teflon tubing". Check the free shipping check box. There are a lot of cheap options with different sizes and lengths in china. This type tubing is harder and available in more sizes than the soft polyethylene tubing sold at most fishing stores. This type of tubing is gaining in popularity with big game fishers because it protects the line better. A few American offshore supplies stores sell it, but the cost is way out of line for the amount you get, and then pricey international shipping on top.

It's extra toughness is probably not needed for salmon gear, but for monster Hali it might be a good choice. I might order some after the polyethylene tubing I ordered arrives.

Thanks TBG. something of note which I recently discovered could come up with chafe gear is the reaction of dissimilar plastics/ latex and the fluro line being in contact. Could be a deal breaker actually....
I recently opened up a small box of hootchies that I tied up for Nootka use ( white squids UV homemade inserts etc. ) I had inserted gum puckys into head of hootchies. The box was a hot gooey mess, and the fluro line in contact with the puckys was discoloured and brittle. It would have broken under strain of Chinook fight for sure. Interestingly the hootchies with salmon beads were fine. Still I tossed the whole lot. That chemical reaction has a smell which I'm sure would be hard to remove from the plastics. Add the "off shore " factor to the chafe gear..maybe that's why my buddy's rigs didn't have it.
I dunno....what are your thoughts?

 

[TheBigGuy]

That is one thing you don't want to skimp on You need to use proper fishing beads. Regular plastic beads will melt when in prolonged contact with hoochies. I'm pretty sure polyethylene wont melt as I often use that inside my halibut hoochies. Cheap plastics will melt because of the chemicals they add to the hoochies to keep them soft and supple.

 

[RiverBoy]

You know those littl,e clear flexible plastic hook guards Gibbs delta sticks on the end of their crappy pre tied Hali leader hooks? That would work well for chafe gear.

 

[TheBigGuy]

I ordered 15 ft of teflon tubing off ebay just to see how well I like it. It is cheap so I figured I'll check it out. I posted a link from an American fishing site with some good info on sizes to order. I also posted a link to an ebay site with lots of colours and sizes.

www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/teflon-tubing-where-to-buy.578143/

http://m.ebay.ca/itm/0-3mm-3-4mm-PT...e-Yellow-AWG8-30-lot-/221952254814?nav=SEARCH

 

[TheBigGuy]

I ordered some Yo-Zuri Fluorocarbon Leader in Pink 60-Pound from Amazon.ca last night for rigging hoochies. Most of this kind of specialized gear is not in your average tackle store, so online purchase is really a better option. It was just under $28 CDN for 30 yards + $5 shipping, (but no tax). Not a bad price for a premium fluoro line, but still not cheap compared to mono. Lots of guys in the States really seem to like the Yo-Zuri pink line for leader. Guys down there also seem to think it is one of the better brands for tying good knots with fluoro. I am going to test it out with different knots, as well as crimps to see how it performs. I like the fact it has a different shade, so I will easily be able to distinguish rigs I've tied in fluoro from all my hundreds of mono rigs. The pink shade does not deter strikes as it is claimed that it blends invisibly under water. The Yo-Zuri pink leader line seems to have a huge amount of guys that love it down there, so I thought I'd give it a try. Any guys up here tried the Yo-Zuri pink fluoro leader and care to comment on it?

I also ordered some small .8mm crimps to use with Yo-Zuri and the Ande 60 lb fluoro I usually use. The Ande 60 lb fluoro is .73mm and the Yo-Zuri is .776mm. The .8mm crimps should work for both if I choose to rig that way. The only thing I may still need to order is some small lumo plastic thimbles. I wouldn't bother using those for Salmon gear, but I may use them for the terminal connection if I add a top shot of fluoro onto my Hali rods.

Lots of stuff to experiment with this upcoming season.

 

[TheBigGuy]

Well I just ordered some more stuff from amazon. Their prices for Hi Seas leader and terminal gear is actually really good for a CDN based distributor. Odered a bunch more crimp sizes, some lumo plastic thimbles, and some 80 & 200 lb mono leader. I have many smaller test leader lines, and heavy 130 & 300 lb mono, but was missing the in between size tests. Those sizes will fill the gaps. They also have small .7mm crimps which no one else seems to sell. Those are the ones you want to use for tests under 60 lbs.

Very good prices and free shipping on all the Hi Seas products if your combined order totals over $35 CDN.

Here's the link to the Hi Seas products sold by amazon.ca. Good quality stuff with very good prices on some, but not all items. Worth checking out.

https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ld-keywords=Hi-Seas&rh=n:2242989011,k:Hi-Seas

 

[TheBigGuy]

Well I finally got my supplies together and got around to to rigging some hoochies with crimps. It worked out really well I think for a first attempt. 60lb pink Yo-Zuri Fluorocarbon for leader .776 mm Dia. High Seas .70mm ID oval aluminum crimps. The line and crimps fit perfectly snug with no gap. Crimped nice and clean and is very compact in these line sizes. I used 2mm glow tubing for chafing gear and covered the crimp in a small pice of Kelly Green 3mm tubing so the crimp couldn't abraid the leader at all. I gave it a super strong tug test and in 60 lb Fluorocarbon I don't think this stuff will ever let go. Of course knots are free and crimps and chafing gear costs money, but if it gives you extra confidence in your rigs it's worth it. On a per unit basis it's peanuts anyways. I'm looking forward to testing it out. I think it will work out nicely. Once I'm satisfied with the right knot for the Fluoro line I'm using I may not bother, but this actually seems like a good way around Fluoro's knot reliability issues until then. Time will tell.

After thinking about it overnight, I may actually stick with this system for several reasons. I'm thinking the loop with the anti chafe tubing will give a far more solid connection to the flasher than using a swivel. I'm hoping the tubing will not move around as much as a swivel, track truer, and transmit more of the flashers action to the trailing hoochy. I also have a ton of pre-tied hoochies, and the loop and crimp will allow me to easily differentiate fluoro tied hoochies from my mono tied hoochies. Sometimes I find a hot hoochy and I'm not sure if it was tied with fluoro, or not. This way I will know immediately if the fluoro leader is making a difference in productivity. I really like the idea of being able to open my hoochie boxes and know immediately which ones are my freshly tied fluoro rigs.

 

[fishin_magician]

Man oh man... I must be the luckiest man alive...I don't use any of this stuff.....just mono, stainless hooks, barrel swivels... and proper Don Knotts... lol

I'm in the poverty pool....but the guests all seemed pretty happy...and I'm not starving or breaking off...Just lucky I guess.

 

[TheBigGuy]

I know your not a fan of fluoro FM. To me it's just a matter of fishing whatever gives you the most confidence. I liked using Fluorocarbon for my hoochies till I had one knot let go. That was all it took to destroy my confidence in it. I still used the rigs I had tied with it but I stopped tying new gear with it because it only took one knot letting go to errode my faith in it. Up till that time I was very happy with Fluorocarbon and it's results. I take extreme care tying my knots and use very high strength knots so I never have them let go on me playing a fish. I do think there are times when Fluorocarbon out produces mono. It is perfect for hoochies because of its stiffness.

I would not use Fluorocarbon for bait rigs or spoons. The long leaders would get expensive very fast. I paid $25 for a premium brand of 60 lb @ 50 yards. The use of crimps actually reduces the wastage that could be up to 10 inches per rig depending what knot you use. Using the crimp method you get exactly the length leader you want with no wastage. Say your average hoochy leader is 3 feet. You could get up to 50 rigs from one spool of fluoro. That is only an extra 50 cents or so per rig. The tubing and crimps are only pennies. Say you spent a whole extra 75 cents on using this method, big deal. A spoon costs $7-12, plugs are over $15, bait can cost over $10 a pack and you could use more than a pack in a day.

I buy my hoochies in bulk, many are old stock I bought locally way back in 10 packs on sale for $5-6 a pack. I can't find many hoochie patterns I like here anymore so I order hard to find patterns from the orient for like $2-4 per 10 count. Using hoochies even with Fluorocarbon leaders is still by far the cheapest rig you can make yourself for Salmon fishing. You know the prices on the shelves these days and the prices are going nowhere but up everyday. So, I can only assume your comment was a good natured ribbing because you know in reality all other methods cost far more to fish than hoochies. I also know you hold hoochies in pretty high regard in your tackle arsenal, so you know exactly how productive they can be at times. Are they more productive than bait on a daily basis, probably not. But they are certainly the best value for the amount of fish they produce on a cost per unit basis whether you were running them with a gold spun silk leader or Fluorocarbon.

 

[TheBigGuy]

There's one other thing I really like about this method. The hook hangs perfectly straight and is not canted at an oddball angle. I always rig commercial style with a single siwash and swivel. Most high strength knots I tie my hoochies with have the tag end at the top. When the beads hit the tag end of the knot it often kicks the swivel and hook out off the center line of the hoochy. On lighter hoochies like needlefish hoochies it is sometimes very noticeable that it is off centre and rides out of balance. Hoochies that ride off balance like this I've noticed never seem to catch well. I could use a knot like a Trilene or improved clinch, but they are much lower strength knots than the ones I prefer with top tags. I really like the fact that all the hoochies I have rigged using this method hang perfectly straight. A properly balanced hoochy is a better performing hoochy in my opinion. So, without having even fished these newly rigged hoochies I am confident that there are several advantages to this rigging method. Maybe it won't make a dam bit of difference in real world performance, but if I feel more confident in my presentation it's worth the extra rigging materials and effort to me.

 

[fishin solo]

How are you having all these knots giveaway? I have never heard of this problem like you seem to have. I'm just curious no hard feelings

 

[TheBigGuy]

I'm guessing you didn't read my posts very carefully fishin solo. I have only ever had one fluoro knot break, and my mono knots never break. It's all about having confidence in my gear. It only took one fluoro knot breaking to ruin my confidence in fluoro because my knots never break. After reading up on fluoro a bit, I found this can be an issue with fluoro. So, I just figured why not try crimping to eliminate the concern over knot failure. I am very comfortable crimping, as I have used crimps on my Hali rigs for years. So, why not experiment. By experimentation I've come up with some awesome alternate rigging methods that some might laugh at, but have worked great for for me.

Most everything we use on the water today was developed by guys experimenting with new methods and materials. That's why almost all our gear is very different today from 30 years ago. Experimentation is one of the things that keeps fishing interesting in my mind. I don't personally understand why a lot of guys on this forum are so resistant to new ideas, methods, and materials. If you personally don't want to bother using the new ideas guys share with others on the forum then don't use them. Sharing on the forum should be encouraged in my opinion. I enjoy sharing information, and I try to help others. I could save a lot of effort by being tight lipped, but that is not who I am.

 

[RogersonCrusoe]

Most everything we use on the water today was developed by guys experimenting with new methods and materials. That's why almost all our gear is very different today from 30 years ago. Experimentation is one of the things that keeps fishing interesting in my mind.

This really struck a chord with me. I'm still brand new (coming up third full season) to salmon fishing and am starting to find my knack/niche/confidence and, naturally, the threads about gear are of great interest to me. Especially hoochies. The near-infinite combination of colours/size/leader lengths/inserts is both overwhelming and enticing and I'm grateful for the guidance given thus far.

As a successful bass fisherman, I learned early on to be a bit different than the other anglers to give the fish something "new" to look at and started experimenting with every variable in the tacklebox (size/colour/lure type/presentation etc.). Of course there were duds, but I believe that the second best part of experimenting is learning what doesn't work just so you stop thinking about it. Naturally the best part is when something wacky works!

Of course salmon fishing is different in many ways, but I expect that a bit of experimenting will go a long way. And the off season is a perfect time to dream up some clever/crazy ideas!

Looking forward to your reports TBG! And thanks for the ideas, I'll definitely keep them in mind for the next winter's purchases.

 

[cj6530]

How are you having all these knots giveaway? I have never heard of this problem like you seem to have. I'm just curious no hard feelings

I crimp on any trolling rig when using Fluoro 50lb and over. Getting a good cinch on a knot with heavy stiff fluoro isn't easy. Going commercial style with a big size 5 or 6 single Mustad 95170 hook and 37 inches of stiff 60lb fluoro trolled fast has been a Hoochie game changer for me targeting big chinook.

 

[TheBigGuy]

This really struck a chord with me. I'm still brand new (coming up third full season) to salmon fishing and am starting to find my knack/niche/confidence and, naturally, the threads about gear are of great interest to me. Especially hoochies. The near-infinite combination of colours/size/leader lengths/inserts is both overwhelming and enticing and I'm grateful for the guidance given thus far.

As a successful bass fisherman, I learned early on to be a bit different than the other anglers to give the fish something "new" to look at and started experimenting with every variable in the tacklebox (size/colour/lure type/presentation etc.). Of course there were duds, but I believe that the second best part of experimenting is learning what doesn't work just so you stop thinking about it. Naturally the best part is when something wacky works!

Of course salmon fishing is different in many ways, but I expect that a bit of experimenting will go a long way. And the off season is a perfect time to dream up some clever/crazy ideas!

Looking forward to your reports TBG! And thanks for the ideas, I'll definitely keep them in mind for the next winter's purchases.

All the new fluoro rigged hoochies I've made recently have been multi hoochies. I think rigging these large heavy multiple hoochy rigs action is really enhanced by by using heavy test Fluorocarbon leaders. Once you go over a single standard size 4 1/4 inch hoochy it becomes far heavier with more water resistance. Those bigger bulkier hoochies really benefit from being rigged with a stiff heavy fluoro leader in my opinion. It gives them good snappy action even with their far heavier weights.

One of my best hoochies this fall was a magmum 6" Radiant Glow Army Truck Hoochy with a full size pink octopus and pink needle fish hoochy and a mylar insert inside. That rig caught springs and surprisingly lots of Chums this fall. It was tied on 60 lb Ande Fluoro leader and the Salmon really seemed to like that combination. Pink hoochies rigged inside the outer hoochies has always worked well for me.

The picture I posted above was a 5" blue/white hoochie I ordered from the States recently (as I could not find the old ones I used anymore). Inside that hoochy is a glow Radiant 5" hoochy cut down to be shorter than the outer hoochie. I also rigged a clear UV cuttlefish hoochy with a glow stripe, over top a 6" magnum glow, with a pink needlefish inside that I think is going to be a killer. Lots of fun experimenting, and much more satisfying when you catch your fish on a lure of your own creation.

 

[TheBigGuy]

Thought I would post some updates for the methods I'm using to rig with crimps, and my impressions so far.

First off I'm really liking the way the hoochies using crimps turn out. When your at home with time to rig them up it's fine. I think it wouldn't be a very good option for rigging on the boat. To many small parts and too time consuming, but for rigging at home it's a great option.

I have started using 2mm tubing for loop chafing, a small piece of 3mm sleeve over the crimp, and another piece of 2mm tubing that I slide inside the 3mm tubing as a spacer to set the hook back instead of beads. This system is really slick. As it all friction fits together tightly and it forms a solid protective sleeve from the hook to several inches up the leader. Even the biggest spring or chum with the nastiest of teeth should never be able to chew off your leader with heavy Fluoro and all the extra chafing protection. It's actually really cool how it all fits together so nicely.

Anyways here some pics of ones I rigged last night using crimps and tubing.

TOP: 60lb Yo-Zuri pink HD Carbon line. (Outer) Glow Radiant 6" Magnum Army Truck. (Inside) Yamashita Plankton #16
Yamashita Needlefish # 15. Pearlescent mylar insert.

Lower: 60 lb Ande Fluorocarbon. (Outer) 4 &1/2 inch Army Truck (Aurora). Inner Chartreuse Needlefish. Glow mini plankton.

 

[TheBigGuy]

Here's some more pics.

60lb Ande Fluorocarbon. (Outer) North Pacific Cuttlefish Aurora with glow stripe. (Inner) Radiant 5" Mint Tulip. Yamashita 4" glow Needlefish.

 

[TheBigGuy]

One more hoochie.  60lb Ande Fluorocarbon. (Outer) Yamashita green glow spackle back Needlefish (NG142R) hoochie. (Inner) Hand tied insert made with green & red flashabou & pearlescent mylar. I really like the looks of this pattern.